MY GOD! $10,505.00 for a Silver Eagle Proof

Eagleman

On ebay i just saw a 1995W PCGS PR70 Silver American Eagle at $10.505 and still climbing! I guess it must be the coin in the Robert B. Lecce collection in the Registry as this is the only one i know of that PCGS has graded PR70. This tells me that i will have to sumit coins to have a PR70 as i sure wont pay that kind of money for a silver eagle!

littlewicher

This coin has a long history on EBAY. First the coin sold to a guy for around $7,500, then a couple months later, he turns right around and puts it back up on EBAY with a BIN for $15,000, that's when Robert Lecce purchased it, then he went and sold it to the person who's selling it right now for an undisclosed amount of money. So the reserve on that auction has to be above $15,000.

Bear

I really dont know how good an investment can be , if nobody who buys the coin wants to keep it. It sounds like a game of musical chairs or the greater fool theory. WhEn the market slips off its torrid pace, that piece of metal will be rather lacking in liquidity.

TWQG

Much like real estate, the people at the top will see the largest dip when it comes.


Sean

WWBillman

Link

1995 W proof 70

Bill

Eagleman

If Robert Lecce does not own the Eagle anymore why does he still have it listed in the PCGS Registry?

fletch2645

Eagleman: Good question!! If he doesn't own it anymore, he should take it out of the registry. His set can remain in the All Time Finest list, but should be bumped down on the Current list.

wondercoin

Wow! $100 shipping when registered mail should cost less than $20?

It really does surprise me that this coin has traded so many times in such a short period of time.

IMHO, PCGS really puts themselves at risk if this coin is not 100% "perfect" (by their decision to not grade any more PR70 Eagles for all practical purposes). And, if the coin really is "perfect", then why flip it at least 3x-4x in a year or so by my count? Very bizarre. Wondercoin

wallstreetman

He has already been offered $15,000 to close the auction! I got an email from the seller!

windycitytrio

Interesting seller...all his recent auctions have been for items selling for under $100 and all of a sudden he is selling a $15,000 coin...he must have won lotto .

littlewicher

I am sure that the seller payed more then $15,000 for it, because Robert Lecce had to make a profit, and he payed $15,000 for it.

tompkins

It's up to $15,850 with 4 hours left (and still has not met the reserve)! What happens to the value of this coin the day a second 70DCAM is made?

Pete

windycitytrio

My guess is that 30% would come off the price if another is slabbed...after that maybe another 15% price reduction of each subsequent increase in the POP.

Blade

$18,100 with 1 hour to go. Reserve still not met. WOW

I don't collect modern slabbed proofs, so it may not be my place to say... but could this coin really be worth that much of a premium above a PF69DCAM PQ+? Especially since (as many report on this board) PCGS is not giving our 70's anymore. I don't get it.

psxchelly

my guess is that whoever it is made a super high reserve so the auction might end with no sale, and no ebay seller fee. He will probably contact the highest bidder and sell it that way.

classiccoin

described as king of kings..LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!..king of hype maybe..or king of fools..or king of plastic would be more accurate..how stupid can people be??????????..its just another 1995-w eagle like all the rest of em..surrounded by 13 grand worth of plastic and a little tag..you could get a PR69 eagle and spend the other 13 grand lots of nice coins

keets

i think it's kinda funny when collectors joke about what other collectors collect and spend there money on. most non-collectors i know think it's absurd that me or anyone for that matter would pay any kind of a premium for any coin!! i personally can't justify paying the big jump to a 70 grade. but if the sale record for this coin is accurate, we are all the fool for not buying it when it was originally sold since that person made a very tidy profit!!

al h.

supercoin

but could this coin really be worth that much of a premium above a PF69DCAM PQ+? Especially since (as many report on this board) PCGS is not giving our 70's anymore

That's precisely why it's "worth" so much, PCGS has stopped giving out 70s -- not because of the coins, but because of a simple change in policy. And if that policy changes back the other way... look out. Same thing can happen (either way) with MS grades too, of course.

but if the sale record for this coin is accurate, we are all the fool for not buying it when it was originally sold since that person made a very tidy profit

Tough to argue with that, too. As long as you change "coin" to "coin/plastic".

littlewicher

Robert Lecce responded to me on why it's still in his set, he said

<< <i>The 1995-W was sold in a private treaty to the current eBay seller. I don't discuss what I sell coins for out of respect for the buyer. He never listed it so I've kept it in my Registry Set until someone else wants to list it. >>

Blade

Supercoin,
Great insight. The Silver Eagle proof is one of the most beautiful coins you can collect. And if this coin really is the best single example of the series, all value bets are off. However, if PCGS is no longer giving out a 70, isn't it possible (likely?) that some of the coins being sent in now are the same level of quality? If that is the case, and you heed the advice of so many on this forum to "buy the coin and not the holder", then can this type of price premium be supported by the coin itself? I don't see how, and what you're left with is a huge premium for the slab and the chance to say you have the best set in the registry. I suppose it's worth $10K+ to someone to say that, but not me.

I have a proposal for PCGS. Bring back the 70. If it is the highest grade, it must be attainable. To make sure the grade is warranted, consider a special internal approval process to give the 70, perhaps a special review board. Thought?

MJCoin

So let me get this straight (regarding littlewicher's last post). If a dealer with access to the finest graded coins, and the funds to purchase any low pop's that happen into the marketplace decides to sell coins from his registry set in private transactions to speculators that have no interest whatsoever in the PCGS registry, then he can keep any, and every coin sold in his registry set until someone decides to register them. I don't mean to stir things up but, am I the only one this upsets? There are many collectors and small time dealers that go to great strides to piece together fantastic registry sets, that actually have the coins in hand. And when they do sell a coin, they promply delete it from their registry set, even if the new buyer has no interest in registering it himself. After all, it is his coin at that point. I'm in no means attempting to attack a certain person, I just want to see the registry set uphold it's standards for the sake of those that sacrifice much to participate.

wondercoin

Of course, once a coin is sold it must be timely removed from the seller's Registry set. Wondercoin

tompkins

I share MJCoin's sentiments. If Mr. Lecce does not own the coin, he has NO business whatever leaving it in his registry set. Obviously, based on his reply to littlewicher, this is no mere oversight, but quite intentional. As someone who is in this business, he, of all people, should understand how hard some people work for their registry sets and should have the decency to prompty remove coins that he sells. This makes me question wondercoin's characterization of this person as a "class act". There was a long discussion of what qualifies a coin to be in a registry set some months ago. I think it was clear, and, as I recall, PCGS made it clear, that if you don't own it, it should not be in your registry set. I would encourage Mr. Lecce to do what he should have done four months ago (when he sold the coin) and remove it from his set.

Pete

wondercoin

Pete: There is NO EXCUSE for not removing sold coins from Registry Sets in a timely manner. We agree totally on that point. Wondercoin.

keets

given that the e-mail traffic between littlewicher and bobbyl is documented, whoever is our monitor, carol, should contact bj and that set should either be edited to reflect it's present content or moved IMMEDIATELY to the "All Time Finest" list. some type of a sanction should be in place when something like this occurs.

al h.

DAM

Expanding on MJCoins concern, what prevents someone from adding a coin to their set simply by using a cert. number from a coin they may have seen at a coin show, dealers inventory, or even a coin a friend has in their collection?

Gets to the heart of the honesty issue.

DAM

dbldie55

DAM,

There was an entire (quite heated) thread a while back about this sort of thing. You can also just register coins from inserts of coins that have been broken out. I know my dealer has hundreds of these in an envelope by his desk. He will eventually send them back to PCGS to be removed from the reports. PCGS gives no incentive for anyone to return them, so most have quit doing it.

I am sure most of the top sets (except the Proof Silver Eagle of course) exist with the owner actually in possession of all of the coins.

supercoin

Tom,

Great insight. The Silver Eagle proof is one of the most beautiful coins you can collect.
Yep, they're pretty.

And if this coin really is the best single example of the series, all value bets are off.
PCGS says it's the best.

However, if PCGS is no longer giving out a 70, isn't it possible (likely?) that some of the coins being sent in now are the same level of quality?
Virtually certain.

If that is the case, and you heed the advice of so many on this forum to "buy the coin and not the holder", then can this type of price premium be supported by the coin itself?
Not in this lifetime.

I don't see how, and what you're left with is a huge premium for the slab and the chance to say you have the best set in the registry. I suppose it's worth $10K+ to someone to say that, but not me.
Of course, some people have different priorities and/or more money than you and I. If that $15K meant no more than $50 does to me, I might buy it.

Regarding PCGS PR70 policy, they should have never started giving out the grade, or they should have been more consistent with it. As it is now, they've created some plastic rarities that sell for extraordinary premiums, and it has nothing to do with the coin.

Many coins that are in PR70 holders don't deserve the grade, but they attained it under a looser standard. And many coins in PR69 holders deserve the grade, but won't get it under current standards.

It's a mess, and the only good way I can see out of it is far too expensive for PCGS (a six-month deadline to regrade all old PR70s under the current standards, and old PR70s no longer count in the registry).

By the way, MS collectors can't smugly stand by... many of the same points apply to many low-pop super-grade high-dollar coins. At current prices things are getting a little wiggy in my opinion. And not just moderns.

DAM

dbldie55,

I certainly hope no one would intentionally do such a thing. I can see selling a registry set, a coin/few coins from a registry set, and unintentionally forgetting to delete it/them. But to knowingly, willfully not deleting a coin/set is deceitful.

Is this what the Registry Set has brought us to? The Mike Tyson school of winning?

I certainly hope not. I hope all the Registry Set participants show off their sets in the spirit of competition. Not having to use a win at all costs attitude. I am assembling my sets not to compete, but rather to show off to those who participate in this hobby my accomplishments. And that's how I view others' Registry Sets. If I finish 1st, 5th, 10th, or 42nd it doesn't matter. I'm still proud of what I have.

DAM

MJCoin

DAM, I certainly don't want to step into the ring with Mike Tyson. He would kick my A**!!!

howie08

MJ Coin :
But wouldn't it be worth 20 million ? It would to me !!
Howie

MJCoin

I'd rather sell a registry set for $20,000.00 than be brain dead for $20,000,000.00!

DAM

Or bite your ear. Not the mention a number of other things he spoke of recently.

Thank goodness coin collecting is a non-contact hobby.