When I give out the answers and the tell-tail characteristic for each, do posters want me to go thru the thread and explain what each incorrect guess should look like on the coin as I did in the first clue about Die Breaks being raised and squiggly?
Wow! This is tough. I initially viewed them all as raised die scratches. Then I looked at C and D of the zoomed photos and I first saw them as not raised and I was going to change C and D to a strike through. Then I looked again before replying and I can't get my eyes to view the lines as recessed anymore, they all look raised to me. The fact that the last line continues onto the E still causes me doubt. Depends on how I look at the given photo depends on how my mind interprets the elevation of the line. That said, I am staying with my initial guess and will state for the second time:
A. Die Scratch
B. Die Scratch
C. Die Scratch
D. Die Scratch
This is a fun thread. I am looking forward to the final answer. A little lighting change and shadowing would help too.
@Batman23 said:
Wow! This is tough. I initially viewed them all as raised die scratches. Then I looked at C and D of the zoomed photos and I first saw them as not raised and I was going to change C and D to a strike through. Then I looked again before replying and I can't get my eyes to view the lines as recessed anymore, they all look raised to me. The fact that the last line continues onto the E still causes me doubt. Depends on how I look at the given photo depends on how my mind interprets the elevation of the line. That said, I am staying with my initial guess and will state for the second time:
A. Die Scratch
B. Die Scratch
C. Die Scratch
D. Die Scratch
This is a fun thread. I am looking forward to the final answer. A little lighting change and shadowing would help too.
Agree. That's why it is very hard to write about things we see on coins because magnification and lighting can change their appearance. CLUE: This is the first coin I've found with so many things in such a small area!
@Insider2 said:
When I give out the answers and the tell-tail characteristic for each, do posters want me to go thru the thread and explain what each incorrect guess should look like on the coin as I did in the first clue about Die Breaks being raised and squiggly?
First thanks for participating. I think at least one member may have gotten them all, and some of you got the hardest two correct. As I said in the beginning, my images were horrible and it is a wonder there are so many correct answers. I will do a tabulation later.
Second, I had the coin in hand and under my microscope. The magnified images of each mark are taken at around 20X. I wish I would have gone up to 40X to eliminate disagreements. **As I posted earlier, I will not debate or change the answers I post. We can talk about what to look for on each characteristic. It is late and this will be done tomorrow.
OK, the answers"
A. Die polish line from a scratch on the die. Slang: Die scratch.
B. Die polish line (only thinner). One not as deep into the die.
C. PMD. This is a scratch into the coin's surface after it was minted.
D. Scratch on the coin's planchet that was not struck out. I call any mark on the planchet that was not struck out OPSI. Original planchet surface impact marks. Lines, roller marks, and adjustment marks are less common than the tiny hits that often still show on the weakly struck parts of a coin.
One thing I noticed about subject line D was that it extended somewhat into the base of the "E"....which is why I was somewhat confused by it. It didn't look like a scratch....it shouldn't extend into the "E" if it were a polish line....(and I didn't consider the pre-existing scratch idea, to be honest).
So, basically, can you discuss If that was part of your analysis?
@TommyType said:
One thing I noticed about subject line D was that it extended somewhat into the base of the "E"....which is why I was somewhat confused by it. It didn't look like a scratch....it shouldn't extend into the "E" if it were a polish line....(and I didn't consider the pre-existing scratch idea, to be honest).
So, basically, can you discuss If that was part of your analysis?
Great eye for detail! It was but there were other things. Later ... when I make time.
Great fun, Insider. I look forward to your discussion about a planchet scratch vs. a post-mint scratch. That appears to have been the primary distinction among the guesses here.
These are the magnified images of the lines from top to bottom:
These two lines are raised on the coin. That indicates there was a scratch on the die (usually from polishing) that metal from the planchet filled. Die polish on business strike coins occurs mostly as lines. Special coins such as commemoratives more often exhibit circular die polish. Note: The two arc shaped lines at the top right are PMD scratches.
This is a scratch into the coin's surface. its edges are sharp from the pushed up metal. Note the irregular surface inside the mark. Note: The diagonal mark up thru the base of the "E" is from a contact mark on the original planchet that was not struck out.
This is the tough one:
This line is all that remains from a scratch on the planchet. It was not struck out completely. This line has smooth rounded edges and a smooth, planchet-colored "virgin center. Note: It continues into the "E" in the micrograph above.
I'll need some time to tabulate the guesses. Thanks.
Comments
When I give out the answers and the tell-tail characteristic for each, do posters want me to go thru the thread and explain what each incorrect guess should look like on the coin as I did in the first clue about Die Breaks being raised and squiggly?
Wow! This is tough. I initially viewed them all as raised die scratches. Then I looked at C and D of the zoomed photos and I first saw them as not raised and I was going to change C and D to a strike through. Then I looked again before replying and I can't get my eyes to view the lines as recessed anymore, they all look raised to me. The fact that the last line continues onto the E still causes me doubt. Depends on how I look at the given photo depends on how my mind interprets the elevation of the line. That said, I am staying with my initial guess and will state for the second time:
A. Die Scratch
B. Die Scratch
C. Die Scratch
D. Die Scratch
This is a fun thread. I am looking forward to the final answer. A little lighting change and shadowing would help too.
The top two looks raised, like die scratched (die polish)
The bottom two look like actual scratches on the coin.
My YouTube Channel
A. Die Scratch or polish line
B. Die Scratch or polish line
C. Strike through
D. Scratch
Aw man I missed round 1
Collector, occasional seller
Agree. That's why it is very hard to write about things we see on coins because magnification and lighting can change their appearance. CLUE: This is the first coin I've found with so many things in such a small area!
You can still guess, you just cannot win a prize.
A. Die polish
B. Die Polish
C. Strike thru
D. Staple scratch
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
A-DIE POLISH
B-DIE POLISH
C-SCRATCH
D-STRIKE THROUGH
OK here's what I think
Die Scratch
Die Scratch
Planchet Flaw
Normal Scratch
Collector, occasional seller
Answer tomorrow afternoon. I wish I took some images at 40X to avoid any disagreement to my observations.
Nevertheless, disagreements give us more to talk about.
+1
YES
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I’m sticking with my original response. Repeated below.
A. Die defect - raised line. I can’t differentiate between die crack/ die scratch/ die polish.
B. Same as A.
C. PMD - Scratch on coin.
D. Same as C.
PS @Insider2
Thanks very much for this post,
I live to learn
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
First thanks for participating. I think at least one member may have gotten them all, and some of you got the hardest two correct. As I said in the beginning, my images were horrible and it is a wonder there are so many correct answers. I will do a tabulation later.
Second, I had the coin in hand and under my microscope. The magnified images of each mark are taken at around 20X. I wish I would have gone up to 40X to eliminate disagreements. **As I posted earlier, I will not debate or change the answers I post. We can talk about what to look for on each characteristic. It is late and this will be done tomorrow.
OK, the answers"
A. Die polish line from a scratch on the die. Slang: Die scratch.
B. Die polish line (only thinner). One not as deep into the die.
C. PMD. This is a scratch into the coin's surface after it was minted.
D. Scratch on the coin's planchet that was not struck out. I call any mark on the planchet that was not struck out OPSI. Original planchet surface impact marks. Lines, roller marks, and adjustment marks are less common than the tiny hits that often still show on the weakly struck parts of a coin.
Thanks for playing. More later.
Thanks for the challenge. Very educational.
One thing I noticed about subject line D was that it extended somewhat into the base of the "E"....which is why I was somewhat confused by it. It didn't look like a scratch....it shouldn't extend into the "E" if it were a polish line....(and I didn't consider the pre-existing scratch idea, to be honest).
So, basically, can you discuss If that was part of your analysis?
Great eye for detail! It was but there were other things. Later ... when I make time.
Great fun, Insider. I look forward to your discussion about a planchet scratch vs. a post-mint scratch. That appears to have been the primary distinction among the guesses here.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
A - die polish line
B - die polish line
C - strike through
D - scratch
Thanks for the mental dental floss. Have a good day. Peace Roy
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What's the discoloration in the area?
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
D. Scratch on the coin's planchet
I never thought about that one, thanks for the lesson
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
(EDIT)
Thanks for the lesson, I was wrong on all...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Sorry, life got in the way. I'll finish explaining what to look for using the magnified images on Monday afternoon.
Thanks for doing this. It was fun, challenging and educational!
A. Die Scratch
B. Die Scratch
C. Scratch on coin
D. Scratch on coin
The following image is the original:
These are the magnified images of the lines from top to bottom:
These two lines are raised on the coin. That indicates there was a scratch on the die (usually from polishing) that metal from the planchet filled. Die polish on business strike coins occurs mostly as lines. Special coins such as commemoratives more often exhibit circular die polish. Note: The two arc shaped lines at the top right are PMD scratches.
This is a scratch into the coin's surface. its edges are sharp from the pushed up metal. Note the irregular surface inside the mark. Note: The diagonal mark up thru the base of the "E" is from a contact mark on the original planchet that was not struck out.
This is the tough one:
This line is all that remains from a scratch on the planchet. It was not struck out completely. This line has smooth rounded edges and a smooth, planchet-colored "virgin center. Note: It continues into the "E" in the micrograph above.
I'll need some time to tabulate the guesses. Thanks.
The analysis wasn't posted until TUESDAY. We may have to accept that Insider2 really does have a real life.
(Thanks for the writeup.)
@TommyType said: "The analysis wasn't posted until TUESDAY. We may have to accept that Insider2 really does have a real life."
The alternative is that he could just be a dirty, liar.
Cold turkey without reading
I did open this thread before but it hurt my eyes and then my head so I closed it
1) Die Gouge
2) Die Crack
3) Struck Thru
4 ) Scratch on coin surface (Damage)
Did I get it right?