@Sonorandesertrat Simply not how it was in the 1970s. In those days, three or four were 'universally attributed' and the status of the universally attributed The Last Supper was 'well, it's Leonardo, but it's a wall mural not a painting'. IIRC the other was The Virgin and Child with St. Anne. The people who taught me at a Big 10 school were all vast Francophiles, and if wasn't in the Louvre with long provenance, well it was more doubtful in their book. If it wasn't Oil paint and portable, it wasn't a Renaissance painting in their book, per se.
Those old teachers would have laughed at Salvatore Mundi as a dealers' joke, but I was trying to be polite. They would have also puzzled over the nice lady now held forth in Washington D.C. as Leonardo.
"Those old teachers would have laughed at Salvatore Mundi as a dealers' joke, but I was trying to be polite."
I have heard some very doubtful comments from an expert in Italian renaissance art about this painting too.
I became interested in Old Master paintings because of fakes and alterations. The science behind painting authentication and restoration is quite interesting. There are also lots of business parallels with numismatics (high end) too.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
The first thing you notice is how small the painting is. Next thing you know you are transfixed on it and it sucks you in. As soon as the Louvre comes up in any conversation someone will inevitably ask, “ did you see the Mona Lisa?!”
The painting is in remarkable condition considering it’s like 500 years old and it’s oil paint on wood. It’s had minimal restoration and touch ups, lacquering and laquering removal and survived insect infestation and warping yet it still presents well
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@sonoranmonsoon I'm no more likely to be invited for a private showing at a high-end coin dealer than I will ever be invited to a private showing at a high-end art dealer, but I have this idea that many of the tricks/mind games/deceptions are the same.
I've seen the Mona Lisa several times. All the protective engineering around detracts a little bit but she shines through. We will never know her commercial value and I would just assume priceless. On the otherhand, imagine your box of the one thousand best US coins. Hard to imagine such a treasure!
Let's see, first box of twenty has Bruce's 1794 next to the Eliasberg 1838-O from Eliasberg, next to the Amazonian gold patterns, with the King of Siam set. ..STOP it's too much.
Cool thread thought... thanks to whom ever had the thought.
So next question, what of those thousand coins would lead off the first five coins in your first box of 20 (out of 50 boxes!). Let's think as to your passion, not just dollars here.
@Colonialcoin said:
Mona Lisa, hands down! How many more people around the world are aware of the Mona Lisa. I saw it at the Louvre and it was a mob scene around the painting. I casually walked up to an 1804 dollar on display at a past ANA and was able to view it by myself as if the coin was a modern Lincoln cent.
That doesn't really mean anything. How many of those in the mob could afford to buy the Mona Lisa even if it was only 100K?
The point that I am trying to make is that with all due respect, many millions of people around the world know about the Mona Lisa. Not the same for 1804 dollar or an 1822 half eagle for instance.
Off the top of your head could you name even the top ten most valuable coins from say England, Denmark, Germany, and Egypt? I know that I can’t and really don’t care to know.
@Colonialcoin said:
Mona Lisa, hands down! How many more people around the world are aware of the Mona Lisa. I saw it at the Louvre and it was a mob scene around the painting. I casually walked up to an 1804 dollar on display at a past ANA and was able to view it by myself as if the coin was a modern Lincoln cent.
That doesn't really mean anything. How many of those in the mob could afford to buy the Mona Lisa even if it was only 100K?
Off the top of your head could you name even the top ten most valuable coins from say England, Denmark, Germany, and Egypt? I know that I can’t and really don’t care to know.
In Germany, the most costly coins were those stolen from the Jews. An era of Germans will rot in hell for eternity for that reprehensible chapter.
The correct answer is Mona. :-) I've had the privilege of viewing her about a dozen times since 1997. Her current location is in a room specifically designed for her which opened in 2005. Before this time the painting was in a side room among other paintings with a glass pane in front for protection, later a plexiglass cubicle. Before walking into this room there were/are other Da Vinci's in the main hallway that people just walk by without a nod.
My first viewing in the new room was perplexing. I walked in and saw this tiny Da Vinci painting on the far wall with everyone jockeying for position. As I walked in further I looked over my left should and saw on the opposite wall a 'ginormous' painting...The Wedding Feast at Cana by Veronese; by comparison it made Mona Lisa look even smaller. My second visit to this room was met with hundreds of patrons all with their hands held high holding their cell phones to take a picture. My most recent visit, which was last Fall, was with my two adult daughters. They enjoyed her and made the obvious comment...it's so small.
To be honest, my favorite painting by Leonardo DaVinci is not the Mona Lisa but rather Salvator Mundi (Savior of the World), which is a depiction of Christ. It was a bargain, imho, when is sold for $450 million on 11-16-2017.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Walkerfan said:
To be honest, my favorite painting by Leonardo DaVinci is not the Mona Lisa but rather Salvator Mundi (Savior of the World), which is a depiction of Christ. It was a bargain, imho, when is sold for $450 million on 11-16-2017.
I agree. I also have lots of other favorite works of art but for sure the Mona Lisa is the most iconic.
Did any of you ever play Masterpiece as a kid? For a poor kid growing up in Detroit that was my first introduction to art. I've been fascinated by art ever since. By the way the Detroit Institute of Arts is a world class Muesum. I highly recommend it. There is sick Diego Rivera exhibit and murals in addition to the masters.. The first time my wife visited me in Michigan while dating I took her there. I had meet her in LA. It was a nerd move but it seemed to work
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@renman95 said:
The correct answer is Mona. :-) I've had the privilege of viewing her about a dozen times since 1997. Her current location is in a room specifically designed for her which opened in 2005. Before this time the painting was in a side room among other paintings with a glass pane in front for protection, later a plexiglass cubicle. Before walking into this room there were/are other Da Vinci's in the main hallway that people just walk by without a nod.
My first viewing in the new room was perplexing. My most recent visit, which was last Fall, was with my two adult daughters. They enjoyed her and made the obvious comment...it's so small.
@Walkerfan said:
By the way the Detroit Institute of Arts is a world class Muesum. I highly recommend it. The first time my wife visited me in Michigan while dating I took her there. I had meet her in LA. It was a nerd move but it seemed to work
m
My cousin, Ben Glicker, assisted Diego Rivera on the controversial auto assembly mural. We got to the DIA at least a couple of times a year.
@renman95 said:
The correct answer is Mona. :-) I've had the privilege of viewing her about a dozen times since 1997. Her current location is in a room specifically designed for her which opened in 2005. Before this time the painting was in a side room among other paintings with a glass pane in front for protection, later a plexiglass cubicle. Before walking into this room there were/are other Da Vinci's in the main hallway that people just walk by without a nod.
My first viewing in the new room was perplexing. My most recent visit, which was last Fall, was with my two adult daughters. They enjoyed her and made the obvious comment...it's so small.
@Walkerfan said:
By the way the Detroit Institute of Arts is a world class Muesum. I highly recommend it. The first time my wife visited me in Michigan while dating I took her there. I had meet her in LA. It was a nerd move but it seemed to work
m
My cousin, Ben Glicker, assisted Diego Rivera on the controversial auto assembly mural. We got to the DIA at least a couple of times a year.
@renman95 said:
The correct answer is Mona. :-) I've had the privilege of viewing her about a dozen times since 1997. Her current location is in a room specifically designed for her which opened in 2005. Before this time the painting was in a side room among other paintings with a glass pane in front for protection, later a plexiglass cubicle. Before walking into this room there were/are other Da Vinci's in the main hallway that people just walk by without a nod.
My first viewing in the new room was perplexing. My most recent visit, which was last Fall, was with my two adult daughters. They enjoyed her and made the obvious comment...it's so small.
@Walkerfan said:
By the way the Detroit Institute of Arts is a world class Muesum. I highly recommend it. The first time my wife visited me in Michigan while dating I took her there. I had meet her in LA. It was a nerd move but it seemed to work
m
My cousin, Ben Glicker, assisted Diego Rivera on the controversial auto assembly mural. We got to the DIA at least a couple of times a year.
Amazing! I could look at that rural in the atrium all day. My son goes a lot to view it. Then he goes to the casinos. Talk about culture
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The Mona Lisa, I'm sure would fetch much more, but I would much rather have the 50 PCGS boxes stuck back in the ol'safe ! ! !
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I've seen the Mona Lisa three times. The last two were in the Louvre in Paris. It had crowds around and was behind some sort of protective glass. It looked like a poster.
The first time I saw it was in the 70s at the Speed art museum in Louisville Kentucky. It was part of a traveling exhibition. This was before we knew that bright lights could damage old masterpieces. I was two feet away. it was fully exposed and there were bright lights shining on the painting. It was absolutely mesmerizing!
I just wanted all those who have seen the Mona Lisa in recent years and who thought "What's all the fuss about?" to know it really is quite special.
Thanks for sharing. I have only seen it once, decades ago, and that was in Paris. Never expected it to be so small and fortunately we were able to get up close with not so long of a wait. I suspect now the added security and placement probably distance the experience.
Comments
@Sonorandesertrat Simply not how it was in the 1970s. In those days, three or four were 'universally attributed' and the status of the universally attributed The Last Supper was 'well, it's Leonardo, but it's a wall mural not a painting'. IIRC the other was The Virgin and Child with St. Anne. The people who taught me at a Big 10 school were all vast Francophiles, and if wasn't in the Louvre with long provenance, well it was more doubtful in their book. If it wasn't Oil paint and portable, it wasn't a Renaissance painting in their book, per se.
Those old teachers would have laughed at Salvatore Mundi as a dealers' joke, but I was trying to be polite. They would have also puzzled over the nice lady now held forth in Washington D.C. as Leonardo.
The fact that almost everyone has heard of the mona lisa says alot
"Those old teachers would have laughed at Salvatore Mundi as a dealers' joke, but I was trying to be polite."
I have heard some very doubtful comments from an expert in Italian renaissance art about this painting too.
I became interested in Old Master paintings because of fakes and alterations. The science behind painting authentication and restoration is quite interesting. There are also lots of business parallels with numismatics (high end) too.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The first thing you notice is how small the painting is. Next thing you know you are transfixed on it and it sucks you in. As soon as the Louvre comes up in any conversation someone will inevitably ask, “ did you see the Mona Lisa?!”
The painting is in remarkable condition considering it’s like 500 years old and it’s oil paint on wood. It’s had minimal restoration and touch ups, lacquering and laquering removal and survived insect infestation and warping yet it still presents well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@sonoranmonsoon I'm no more likely to be invited for a private showing at a high-end coin dealer than I will ever be invited to a private showing at a high-end art dealer, but I have this idea that many of the tricks/mind games/deceptions are the same.
Sonoranmonsoon? Did I rain on your parade, BillDugan1959? If you want to call me something else, just use 'Rat'.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I've seen the Mona Lisa several times. All the protective engineering around detracts a little bit but she shines through. We will never know her commercial value and I would just assume priceless. On the otherhand, imagine your box of the one thousand best US coins. Hard to imagine such a treasure!
Let's see, first box of twenty has Bruce's 1794 next to the Eliasberg 1838-O from Eliasberg, next to the Amazonian gold patterns, with the King of Siam set. ..STOP it's too much.
Cool thread thought... thanks to whom ever had the thought.
So next question, what of those thousand coins would lead off the first five coins in your first box of 20 (out of 50 boxes!). Let's think as to your passion, not just dollars here.
Would an 1838-O make the top 1,000? Interesting question
True
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
The point that I am trying to make is that with all due respect, many millions of people around the world know about the Mona Lisa. Not the same for 1804 dollar or an 1822 half eagle for instance.
Off the top of your head could you name even the top ten most valuable coins from say England, Denmark, Germany, and Egypt? I know that I can’t and really don’t care to know.
In Germany, the most costly coins were those stolen from the Jews. An era of Germans will rot in hell for eternity for that reprehensible chapter.
The correct answer is Mona. :-) I've had the privilege of viewing her about a dozen times since 1997. Her current location is in a room specifically designed for her which opened in 2005. Before this time the painting was in a side room among other paintings with a glass pane in front for protection, later a plexiglass cubicle. Before walking into this room there were/are other Da Vinci's in the main hallway that people just walk by without a nod.
My first viewing in the new room was perplexing. I walked in and saw this tiny Da Vinci painting on the far wall with everyone jockeying for position. As I walked in further I looked over my left should and saw on the opposite wall a 'ginormous' painting...The Wedding Feast at Cana by Veronese; by comparison it made Mona Lisa look even smaller. My second visit to this room was met with hundreds of patrons all with their hands held high holding their cell phones to take a picture. My most recent visit, which was last Fall, was with my two adult daughters. They enjoyed her and made the obvious comment...it's so small.
To be honest, my favorite painting by Leonardo DaVinci is not the Mona Lisa but rather Salvator Mundi (Savior of the World), which is a depiction of Christ. It was a bargain, imho, when is sold for $450 million on 11-16-2017.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I agree. I also have lots of other favorite works of art but for sure the Mona Lisa is the most iconic.
Did any of you ever play Masterpiece as a kid? For a poor kid growing up in Detroit that was my first introduction to art. I've been fascinated by art ever since. By the way the Detroit Institute of Arts is a world class Muesum. I highly recommend it. There is sick Diego Rivera exhibit and murals in addition to the masters.. The first time my wife visited me in Michigan while dating I took her there. I had meet her in LA. It was a nerd move but it seemed to work
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Great thread Coinstartled
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
My cousin, Ben Glicker, assisted Diego Rivera on the controversial auto assembly mural. We got to the DIA at least a couple of times a year.
Amazing! I could look at that rural in the atrium all day. My son goes a lot to view it. Then he goes to the casinos. Talk about culture
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No casinos in the sixties and seventies when Ben gave us the annual grand tour of the museum.
Remarkably, his participation in the Rivera piece expanded with each visit.
The Mona Lisa, I'm sure would fetch much more, but I would much rather have the 50 PCGS boxes stuck back in the ol'safe ! ! !
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
+1. Last time was 30 years ago...no long lines back then.
Even if the Eliasberg piece doesn't make the top 1.000, I'll bet the Norweb piece would.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Thanks for sharing. I have only seen it once, decades ago, and that was in Paris. Never expected it to be so small and fortunately we were able to get up close with not so long of a wait. I suspect now the added security and placement probably distance the experience.
Mona Lisa hands down....worldwide appeal brings all kind of money into the equation