LET US KNOW - DID YOUR NOTE CROSS OVER? PMG PCGS CGA RCGS
synchr
Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭
synchr
Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭
synchr
Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
There is embossing on this note
Just back from PMG, the corresponding Mule
$1 SC, same same
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$5 SC A to Mule Change Over Pair back from PMG 2 months ago
North Africa Star
1934B 1934C
Very light handling mark on the first note
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Recent fp 86 back from PMG 2 months ago
The seal does have that chunk spot on it
.
Very interesting! On these particular examples, I think I would've preferred to buy more notes vs. invest money to cross them. But that's what makes the hobby fun, there are so many avenues for us to travel on our journey. Thanks for sharing.
Each company has a slightly different way of grading. Not surprised at these results but in my experience notes from PMG usually drop lower once submitted to PCGS. You seem to have the opposite happen here.
Also let me know when you're ready to sell the $2 28D BA non mule.
Agreed. 3 to 5 years ago I observed this exact same thing but since then have noticed an inverted trend.
I Cross submitted these because I thought they would INCREASE in grade.
Then again, none of the note grades are that far from the other.
Please feel free to post your cross over notes, more data is better
I have 7, what are you paying ?
Very nice, thank you for sharing !!!
I sold some and didn't save the labels to show the difference.
For the VF 35 $1750. I currently have a PCGS 25 so looking for an upgrade.
I don’t have a lot of experience crossing notes, maybe a dozen or so.
It’s been my experience that most notes cross equally from PCGS to PMG, or vise versa if in higher grades, but have found that PMG is a little stricter on mid-grade and lower grade notes.
Three years back, I sent PMG four notes in CGA (new) holders, and every one of them came back with identical grades.
I've crossed close to 200 PMG notes to PCGS (and some the other way or back) and own a lot more PMG notes that I haven't crossed. While this is a tiny sample, relative to the number of notes each service has graded, my observations are somewhat at variance with the examples mentioned above.
Most, but certainly not all, notes were "CU" of some stripe. For most notes I buy, I try to get ones with good eye appeal or rarity.
Bump Ups! For a few notes, I got a bump up in grade from PCGS - generally small bump (e.g., 55EPQ to a 58PPQ; 64 to 66PPQ (the best); 66EPQ to 67PPQ).
Straight Crossed. Most notes crossed at the same grade. This is what you would both hope for and expect.
Downgrades. Many more notes (but certainly not more than 15+/-%) got knocked down in grade rather than up. Typical of the downgrades were 66EPQ to 65PPQ or 65EPQ to 64PPQ. Variations that are to be expected.
However, I got burned on several high grade (and in a couple cases higher dollar) notes that were significantly hit. The worst hits were a 64 that went to a 53 (ouch) and a 66EPQ that went to 53 (double ouch) - since re-crossed back to 66EPQ (Yeah).
More typical were 66EPQ going to 58PPQ. This is to be expected for a certain percentage as one service may see (or think they see) something the other didn't. A slight fold or crimp may be the only difference between such grades.
With all this said, I find both PMG and PCGS to be good, honest companies who offer a valuable service. They overwhelmingly get it right.
The one comment that did not comport with my experience is that contrary to what was said, I find that PMG has often overgraded notes in the F15 to VF30 range. This may have changed in more recent times.
“With all this said, I find both PMG and PCGS to be good, honest companies who offer a valuable service. They overwhelmingly get it right.”
100% agree !
Agreed, the purpose of the thread is to show actual data points, examples of what has occurred. More data is better.
especially on such a controversial topic.
There are a lot of opinions, always favortism with broad strokes, and we are all outspoken
But let's cut through that look at actual results without hyperbole.
It was this controversial post in the "Rooky needing advice" thread that really raised my eyebrow as a broad stroke with no data backing it up.
In defense of Robert (Tookybandit), I believe this to be his opinion and he’s entitled to it.
PCGS and PMG are world respected and regarded as paper money’s top tier grading services. Featured by all major auction houses, including Heritage, Stacks, Lyn Knight and eBay.
It’s almost a Ford/Chevy or Coke/Pepsi comparison. Many collectors have registry sets at these two grading services, and many others do not or prefer not to have their notes graded at all.
Buy the note, not the holder.
I respect Robert and always enjoy discussions, especially his enthusiasm. In this case he painted a broad stroke... so let's find out more using actual data.
Or is that too revealing, killing any market sales advantage?
Surely folks get notes back and decide to submit them elsewhere
Previously posted on Paper Money Forum site:
Steve in Tampa-(mbwizkid on this site) my experience over the last 10 years is definitely at odds with your conclusions. I have sent nearly 100 small size notes to PCGS Currency that were previously in PMG holders. In addition I have viewed thousand of notes from each TPG. My findings are:
My experience has been very similar to Kraig's (KT5Silver). As a PCGS registry set guy I've had to buy many PMG holdered notes to try and cross to PCGS to fill holes in my sets and it's been very typical for a PMG 65 or 66 to not even make a CU grade once submitted to PCGS. I have had a few PMG notes in the 35 to 50 range move up a few points at PCGS so it can go either way sometimes. PMG is absolutely inconsistent and often times much too generous in the fine 15 to VF 30 range.
Great conversation, thanks for the input.
Got any photos?
All four crossed identically.
I got this from Alex Perakis in 1996
Submitted looking for that elusive "upgrade" from PMG and PMG calls it just as PCGS
PCGS output a lot of 58PPQ
Yes when the note is clearly unc., or AU or XF without issues.
Planning PCGS submission.
I've re-holdered CGA & PCGS notes to PMG. All my CGA notes routinely came back TWO grades lower, sometimes three, with PCGS notes a lot have come back one grade lower. Close inspection before sending in, you can usually spot the reason. PMG is very strict with the margins, which, in MHO, tells me PCGS didn't ding a grade for poorly centered notes, just the quality. Have a few PCGS notes left, will keep and will stick with PMG only in future. Also, considering, will be more discriminate about PCGS notes.
Have a few PCGS notes left, will keep and will stick with PMG only in future. Also, considering, will be more discriminate about PCGS notes.
Without any way to verify the old PCGS numbers on the holders there is no way for a buyer to vet a prospective PCGS purchase
Was heavy in the CGA notes, very few - 2 or 3 - came back same grade or higher, otherwise like PCGS came back a grade lower but not as bad as the CGA notes. Look strictly at PMG now, unless can only find in PCGS, and then really look hard before purchase.
Crossover to pmg no complaints
Great thread. 👍
Nothing to add as I’ve been strictly buying PMG notes. I am open to the new PCGS holders as they are back in-house again.
I wonder if much is known about the new PCGS grading so far... ?
My YouTube Channel
And the new holders appear much nicer!
My YouTube Channel
It would be great to seem some blind comparisons
They do not seem to be very busy, probably get rapid turn around time
I played the crossover game for years. It is nothing but angst and terror waiting for a 65P to cross. I've had too many cross to 64P and that is a total waste of money. I wont cross any more notes. They are what they are when in a holder.
CGA 60 to a PCGS 64PPQ on Ebay 323983251578
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/n9gAAOSwzhle48xy/s-l1600.jpg