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Am Sooooo against the backs not being as important in grading.
BALROG
Posts: 587 ✭✭✭
'It presents well' ... Well does the back ?
If I 'present a card' (which I gather to all is displaying it in a frame or other) and I personally know the back of the card is all gooped up OC or other... I'd have to eliminate that card from the presentment collection. Would dream about the back of that card in bed with HIllary......... horrifying.
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The first 9 that I ever bought, a Topps 1961 Gil Hodges, had a dime size ink smear right in the middle of the back of the card. Couldn't read some of the stats in that area of the card. I was very unhappy.
The front of the card was beautiful, with the corners razor sharp. But the seller didn't have a scan of the back of the card on the Ebay listing, and I didn't think to ask about emailing me that.
Well, i never made that mistake again. I will never buy a high grade card without seeing the back as well.
I agree, would love every seller to post pics of the reverse. But I don't often look at the back as the true "art" is on the front. I probably would be upset getting a high grade card that had an issue on the reverse. Below is probably the favorite "2" that I own. I do own 9 copies of this card between 2-8 but for the price, this "presents well", lol. Obviously from the back, we can see why it got the 2 designation.
I always ask for a scan of the back if the seller doesn't post initially. I once got a response that said "The back is clean." Needless to say, I did not bid and will not buy from that seller.
Reverse is part of grading process. Its just as important as the front I have a whole list of sellers I wont buy from mainly because they never post scans of reverse. Or I ask for a scan of backside any they never acknowledge or they respond with backside is clean like grrensneakers said. I dont sell cards, I buy and collect vintage baseball. But to all of you who sell on ebay, believe me it would behoove you to get in the habit of posting pics of reverse, even on psa 9's and 10's. You would probably have a lot less returns. Honesty and transparency are huge in this hobby
PWCC provides scans of the back sides, but Probstein does not. This affects my spending and I'm sure others as well.
No back scan no purchase from me. Used to ask for them and still will if I really want the card. Some EBay sellers I would probably spend a decent amount on their cards if they provided back scans or would send of asked.
Agree regarding back scans. If Greg Morris, etc. Can provide them no excuse not to on graded items IMHO.
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The backs don't bother me as long as there are no obvious stains, etc. PSA requires 90/10 centeering on back for a PSA 9 so it's not so important for the overall grade, either.
If I'm buying a very expensive card, I'd be more fussy about the back but anything under $100 I wouldn't be too concerned about as long as card is otherwise solid for the grade.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
GEORGE
It's backless! I'm finally gonna make a Great Entrance!
ELAINE
Backless? Ya gonna back her in?
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In the minority with this but...I've never considered the back of a card when making a card purchase, ever, in 35 years of buying cards. Graded or Raw.
LOL, Plese tell us about your experiences when you sell them. At one time the backs of postage stamps were not important. Even now most of a coin's grade is assessed from its obverse. This is a step backward to simplify a coin's grade as in the beginning both sides of a coin were graded separately! IAs folks become more critical, at some time in the future things may change for both cards and coins.
End line collector from 2016 - on. What's mine is mine till the end.
But, I have sold in person and on eBay(08-12) , and always provided a back scan or if in person a buyer typically turns over the card if they are interested. Never had a problem selling, but it's not my shtick now. So, backs of cards for me ends up being "the hell with it,"
I get a kick out of when people create the "guess the grade" threads and then don't post scans of the back. That kind of blows my mind. I would say 40% of the reasons I kick a card out of the submitting pile is for reasons that occur on the card's back. If you're ignoring the back or just glossing over it that might explain why your grades aren't as high as you thought they would be. There's also a lot of corner damage that is only visible on the back and not the front.
I'm with everyone else that wants to see a back scan. I don't get too bent out of shape over centering if it's not 60/40 but I have very little tolerance for print defects or the aforementioned corner damage that doesn't show on the front.
Arthur
Sure, we all know the front of the card is the most important for grading, investment, etc. But for me, the back of the card is actually the most fun.
I enjoy the little cartoons on the backs when they are there, and really enjoy the stats.
And of course i know that in this internet age, player stats are easily found on the internet. However something about looking at the stats on the back of a baseball card, makes it more interesting for some unexplainable reason.
Does anyone for whom the backs of cards are important buy from dealers like 4SC who do not scan the backs of the cards they list for sale? Do you request a back scan? I don't believe 4SC responds to those requests so I'm just curious.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I just checked out the 4SC Ebay listings. Their top five most expensive cards do have a pic of the back.
I guess perhaps they have a dollar threshold as to when they automatically post a back pic
I think if you request a back scan on items $75 and above 4sc will provide one.
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I checked a bit further and it looks like about $450 is the threshold for including a back scan. I haven't bought many cards over $450 from 4SC, so I never really noticed, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I just looked at the 4SC website (as an aside, prices are almost always lower on their site than on ebay). While I didnt check them all of course, every card over $350 had a back scan. Under $350, some had them, but it was more hit or miss
There are a bunch between $350 and $450 with no back scan, either, on ebay, at least, but suffice to say any card a couple hundred dollars or less does not typically include a scan of the back.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When one buys a car, don't you look under the hood?
If there was a problem with the back of a card PSA would recognize this and mark a qualifier on the label or lower the grade
This is a PSA 10 back
I don't think that's the norm though, LC. I've had cards 9 instead of 10 because of fisheyes on the back, so they're obviously factoring it in.
Arthur
Not necessarily the norm, but not uncommon either, especially on lower dollar cards. This one's near the top of my upgrade list, just can't seem to find one with comparable front centering and a back scan included in the listing.
Topps buys their cardboard stock in jumbo mill rolls or large cut sheets, prints it, and then of course converts it down to the card size. Let's tell it like it is, what Topps is using isn't the world's most expensive paper stock, so the paper stock is going to sometimes have some imperfections.
What that "mark" on the bottom on the Larkin 10 appears to me to be is an imperfection in the paper stock, not a printing flaw, which is perhaps why PSA let it go, and still gave the card a 10.
Whereby a fisheye is a flaw that occurs in the printing process. The fisheye may actually be caused by a contaminant from the paper mill, but nevertheless because ink has been applied, it is considered a printing flaw, and therefore could lower the grade of a card.
Obviously the few small fisheyes in the solid blue area on the back wasn't enough to warrant PSA knocking down the grade from a 10.
They seem to only do this on cards you self submit, not necessarily the cards you buy without seeing a back scan
thatas why i dont look at the back
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
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Maybe it's my imagination, but some sets seem to have more problems with the backs than others. I've seen a lot of high-grade 1954 Bowman baseball cards with gum or wax issues on the back, in some cases just bad enough to detract from the eye appeal of the card without getting the"ST" qualifier.
Agree the scan of the back is a must.
Agree with everyone's general take, a back scan is most ideal. If the card is getting pricey (to me, $100 or more) then why not have a back scan? If it's a $10 card and the seller's moving a lot of them, I get it, takes time. In that case I'll generally get it if I need it and hope for the best, back-wise.
Thought about this when searching out a ‘55 Bowman Aaron. Passed over this PSA 5 that just ended with PWCC and ended up picking up a PSA 4 with a clean back.
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Yep, $75.
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