Options
Interesting sign (and rule) I found at a LCS a while back. What would you do?
ShadyDave
Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was told to visit this (unnamed) coin shop so I went. I saw this sign and had to take a picture cause it was unbelievable. This is the only LCS that I know has an AML program/policy this strict.
Has anyone else come across policies like this before? How would this affect your purchases?
0
Comments
Sounds like an easy way to set yourself up for a little home invasion. No gracias. Never heard of this policy though.
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
I don't know what state that is, there may be pawn shop laws that require proper ID for all transactions. On first face it seems a bit much but it's the only way to identify thieves who sell stolen goods. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Based on my discussions with Apmex regarding reporting, this looks like some nonsense designed to protect the buyer in case you sell hlm lead "silver" bars or other fakes...he won't have a lot of trouble finding you.
Naturally, every dealer has to report you if you try to buy coins with a suitcase full of cash.
Commems and Early Type
Sales/purchases of gold eagles and certain other PM coins are not required to be reported to the IRS. Funny that they don't address cash transactions. I'd do business elsewhere.
seller/buyer protection at it's finest. helps keep the bad guys out of the store.
sometimes best to make your own rules. I don't ship high value ebay purchases to unverified paypal accounts.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The LCS I frequent requires ID for all transactions Buy/Sell/Trade and is transcribed onto the bill of sale. I am ok with it, especially if it covers your backside for Money Laundering.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
This coin shop was in Connecticut for what its worth and does not operate as a pawn shop. I get dealers need AML procedures, but saying that the Feds and State laws require them to collect info on ALL transactions involving PM's is not accurate. This shops self-imposed AML procedures are forcing this... needless to say I didn't purchase anything.
I wonder if they have a privacy procedure for protecting their clients personal information
https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/dealers-precious-metals-stones-or-jewels-required-establish-anti-money-0
I believe that dealers in precious metals (and gemstones) are subject to AML compliance (Google it) but there are cutoffs for the dealer. If you are a small time buyer you don't need to comply but if you deal in more than a certain amount of gold per year, you need am AML compliance plan. I'll bet many dealers don't bother or are even unaware of this, but I believe that it is the law.
ICTA has an AML compliance kit and resources available to dealers who need assistance. Requirements include designating a compliance officer and periodic testing of employees in order to detect suspicious transactions.
Additionally, CT requires a license if you want to deal in PMs and also requires the buyer to collect all of this info for transactions of any amount.
The dealer only needs this information from you if he is buying from you, and not the other way around. They certainly shouldn't require this information if you are buying from them.
PM dealers are pretty strictly regulated at the State and Federal levels (more so than ever before) and this is one area where there hasn't been any relief in regulations.
Theoretically I should be able to walk into any coin shop and buy one gold eagle for cash without any law requiring that the dealer take my identification. The same does not apply when I sell, as your local ordinances will apply. Depending upon the merchandise and the quantity of it federal laws may also apply.
The problem from the dealer's point of view is that if I regularly come in and buy that one ounce for cash, the purchases MAY be considered linked transactions from the government's point of view, with a reporting requirement kicking in at some level. If the dealer does not make a note of that first transaction, how is he going to remember later which invoices marked "CASH" were yours?
That said, I will let a spokesperson for ICTA take it from here.
New York State has been requiring it for more than a decade.
NY State has been requiring this for more than a decade. Connecticut, New Jersey and NY often cooperate.
In fact, it IS A LAW IN CONNECTICUT - please retract your accusation:
https://cga.ct.gov/2013/BA/2013SB-00928-R000114-BA.htm
I would also point out that in NY State, "second hand dealers" are required to photograph all purchases and post them on a law enforcement website for 3 to 14 days (depending on the county) before they can sell the goods. This is to cut down on the fencing of stolen goods and I've actually seen it work to help arrest 3 individuals and return some of the stolen coins to the original owner.
So, you can line up politically wherever you want on this, but the coin shop is just adhering to their state laws. [See my link above.]
You need to take a deep breath and relax a little, I'm not sure why you're being so aggressive. You're correct there is a law in CT for BUYING from the general public, not SELLING to the general public. If there is a law requiring identification for SELLING to the general public, I would be interested in seeing it.
The flyer I took a picture of clearly states "when you BUY or SELL any form of precious metals... we are required by federal and state law" ...which is not the case.
I would ask the dealer why they think they need ID from people that buy PMs when the law only addresses selling.
How was the bid board?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
wow, a lie. At a coin shop. Never happened before.
Ever see/n the same or similar sign at a dealer's table at a show in CT?
The local shops want everything but a blood sample if I sell. If I buy, walk in with cash, out with coins or bullion no questions asked. Hopefully it will stay that way. Even better, let me sell no questions asked.
Should have asked him to cite exactly what law since his little sign doesn't specify.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I'm not sure I would characterize my stance as "aggressive". I think it was more aggressive to call the store owner a liar than to ask for a retraction.
https://augustapreciousmetals.com/anti-money-laundering-compliance-program/
https://law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/1027.210
The AML refers to both purchases and sales.
This is not true. The AML requires procedures be in place with regards to BOTH purchases and sales to prevent money-laundering. The AML does not specifically require ID on ALL sales, but the language is fuzzy enough that it requires it on some.
My guess would be that they got popped for having insufficient records.