More brain picking for the Ancients (and modern world) collectors on data keeping and education.
Stork
Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
The TL;DR read version is at the bottom, but I'll start with it too:
** what information do you track, what do you use to track it with, and how did you make yourself an 'ancients collector'?**
My attention seems to be shifting back in time, and so far I have a very small handful of various ancients. Before this 'new' thing gets too far away from me I'm trying to stay on top of the record keeping (helps that I have more time on my hands).
I'm still looking to finish my Zog's Albania set (okay and the Italian Occupation too), and will always be looking to get some more of the more elusive Japanese coins as well as refine what I've got. And there is always a little room for the OFEC. But...the bullionesque stuff is mostly gone (except Britannias, still like those), and there are a few little oddball side sets. But, despite the world stage being so huge, it's the Ancients that are most persistent in their call.
How do folks get their ‘Ancients Education’? I'm trying the ANA class just to jumpstart, and of course I have a few books too. But book recommendations are always good and mostly I've been flipping through auctions and websites.
In addition I am DETERMINED to not let my records on Ancients fall too much to the wayside (like the mish mash of world coins over the last 15(!) years).
I’ve got about a dozen now that I need to plug into a database. Pretty sure I want more than a basic spreadsheet and there are some nice coin/collector/general programs out there.
One program (ReCollector) is a super nice looking one and apparently has the ability to generate a web page. My other side project is to take my site from beyond a simple plug-in one to perhaps a more versatile format via WP or something. Not outright coding, but one that could hand a program-generated code and populate a web page. I imagine it could do well for a small time dealer, but really I just want to use my website (non-public pages) to hold my collection database in a visible way as an option.
These are the fields I'm thinking would be good for tracking. I'm sure I've got some of the nomenclature off, but in general these would be the fields (short text, long text, numbers, check boxes, images etc).
- Photos (obv/rev combo shot)
- Region
- Government/Empire/City etc
- Ruler
- Era
- Date (range as needed)
- Metal type (au/ag/ae/whatever)
- Denomination
- Denomination qualifier (ie serrated)
- Diameter
- Weight
- Obverse description
- Reverse description
- Condition description
- Reference Material
- Seller
- Provenance
- Price
- theme 1 (make a pick list so these can be searchable)
- theme 2
- theme 3
- Grader (NGC, raw, initials if an individual)
- Grade (allow for three lines for NGC’s more descriptive labels—grade, strike, surface)
- acquisition date
- other documentation including receipt, sales, email screen shots
- other notes of interest (eg hx of the emperor, or who the Dioscuri are etc)
- other photos (ie single obv/rev, label,
- storage location
I need Mac compatible and found three good options short of becoming a database programmer/developer myself. I’m in the process of deciding between these…haven’t tried out all the features yet. I want the complete information but also the ability to generate a record or printout suitable for stuffing a paper inventory somewhere or for insurance reasons.
Exact Change is very coin oriented and will actually add populations, metal content, dimensions etc. If you have the e-versions of the Krause catalogs you can even link to it within the program. It will give nice photos of just about any coin (presumably licensed from Krause) though you can swap your own in/out. Looks great for the World or US collector, but would require quite a bit of adapting for Ancients and my medals. It makes nice report lists and you can do a check list to take to shows if you want.
ReCollector is a collector oriented program with an app. It was made by a map collector, but very ‘any collection’ friendly and has a nice interface. It can generate a web page like I mentioned earlier. No label making or barcode interface, but looks quite nice.
Tap Forms is a Mac only personal database program (filled the gap after Bento left the market…not the overkill that FileMaker would be!). It would be the most flexible and have the most updated ‘look’. Supports reading and creating barcodes, and can be configured to print out labels. It will also be suitable for any other real life need for a small database.
So, if you read this far, what information do you track, what do you use to track it, and how did you make yourself an 'ancients collector'?
Comments
The above are not actually my coins, but I was inventorying a large ancient collection and learning about ancients at the same time.
Tracked (columns in the above screenshot):
A. location / name or label on box where coin is stored
B. Photo number. For example, 6253 is the obverse photo filename IMG_6253.JPG in the image folder 6200. 6254 is the reverse.
C. Region (blank for Roman empire, non-blank for Roman republics, Parthia, Alexandria, Carthage, Seleucid, CeltIberian, etc.)
D. Denomination (often just metal type, to start with)
E. First year in date range (when coin was minted)
F. Last year in date range
G. Ruler (or name of person on obverse)
H. Obverse legend (and sometimes description of what is depicted)
I. Reverse legend (and sometimes description of what is depicted)
J. Exergue legend / mint marks
K. Reference (to books like RIC)
L. Grade or reference to website for this collection
M. Amount paid
N. Additional description or web link for attribution
Software
Excel
It's great, because I can sort it on anything to see similar coins,
adjust width of columns to see a lot of info on one screen,
I can add or delete columns,
it handles Greek letters, etc.
How did I start
I have a website for our local coin club with my contact info.
A guy emailed me and was looking for help inventorying his inherited collection.
I was interested in learning how to attribute ancients, so he brought the collection over a few times.
Mostly I just photographed the coins very quickly and then attributed them from the photos
in my spare time.
I collected early US coinage for quite a while (hence my username), became interested in Colonials, and then fell in love with Ancients.
My learning process has probably been somewhat atypical. Rather than starting with a book, I started with auction records and upcoming sales. First and foremost, a coin has to "speak" to me. If it no longer speaks to me, I sell it and when starting, I didn't mind having some turnover in my collection. I also knew that I needed to know upfront what would be buyable and what would be out of reach.
The "100 Greatest Ancient Coins" book by Harlan Berk is a good, general starting point to get a superficial feel for what strikes your interests. I'm still continually refining my tastes - I have an extensive wantlist but in almost every auction there's a coin or two that makes me say: "Wow, that's not something you see every day!"
Overall, it's an evolution rather than a prescribed set. The complete US typeset is 137 coins but doesn't include types like the 1848 "CAL" $2.50. Similarly, there are a number of logical "type sets" that can be built in ancient coinage which also includes "wildcard" pieces.
@yosclimber Excellent organizing ideas--I like making the start/stop date ranges two separate fields. Excel is still tempting, but I admit to not always liking staring at a spreadsheet table format. I would love to be so organized (HA!) that noting location or box number would be relevant. Being able to handle the Greek letters is not something I had thought about...more food for thought. Did you just dive into the collection with a reference? I'm planning on taking the ANA course soon-ish, but wouldn't mind looking at a good newbie reference first.
@SmEagle1795 I think I may have some of the same attraction to ancients. I've been staring at auctions (and buying a few). Bought a couple from a forumite...starting with sighthound themed coins as that is what I have (a greyhound) and the coins 'spoke' to me. I'm all about the story too. Amazon tells me I have bought the 100 Greatest book so now I need to find out where in my house it might be.
Thanks so much!
Actually the guy who formed the collection had an extensive website showing many of the coins in his collection, and grouping them by subject:
http://jaysromanhistory.com/romeweb/rcoins/rcoins.htm
So I started by looking through that.
After awhile I got the gist of reading the legends on worn coins.
Apparently he had copies of all the standard books (RIC = Roman Imperial Coinage), etc.
But the books were given away when he passed away in 2006.
I think they would be difficult to use anyway, because they are organized by mint.
This "Roman Coin Attribution Toolkit" is a good intro reference:
http://romancoin.info/
The ultimate internet reference site is wildwinds:
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/index.html
I like to browse with thumbnail images:
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/attica/athens/t.html
If you have not seen @SmEagle1795's site linked as Colisseo Collection in his signature line, that is an amazing look at some of the very best ancient coins.
I have a mac also. I use a program called XAMPP which basically creates a server/website sandbox on your computer. You can get everything right on your desktop and then upload the files to a real website. It does involve learning programming, so not sure if that's a dealbreaker. Since you do have a website maybe you know some already. I already knew basic HTML and learned basic CSS. Any PHP I had to learn was very basic, mostly cutting and pasting and editing until it worked like I wanted.
The most important recommendation I would give is to use a database program instead of excel. I use sequel pro which is a SQL program. Once you have date in SQL you can render on-the-fly webpages with PHP. So I can populate my SQL database with all the information I want, including names and locations of image files, and from a basic web page can query whatever I want - dates, countries, sizes, compositions, themes, etc. If something is listed in the database it can be used to search. Then a webpage renders with whatever matches there are, including pictures. If you've found commercial software with similar capabilities they are probably the same components in a user friendly package.
As far as classifying ancients I don't have as good advice. For now I only have one database for modern world coins. I anticipate having different databases for cast Asian coins and a separate one for ancients. I don't think any of your categories are bad, you might fine tune them as you go. I only have one 'theme' tab and if it fits several themes I just enter them all. Examples for world coins are 'square, scalloped, holed, WWI, WWII, bimetallic, FAO' etc. I can search for just the keyword so separate fields aren't needed.
For ancients education I recommend joining FORVM ancient coins if you haven't already. You have to have an account and be logged in to see the pictures in the discussion forums. I've spent a lot of time there. I got Wayne Sayles Ancient Coin Collecting Book #1 from the library, liked it, and eventually bought all six. I'm a newbie for ancients so can't give much more advice.
So my basic setup is XAMPP which creates a server on my computer, and Sequel Pro, which houses the database files. Everything else is done with websites and forms.
PS I was recently searching for information about Japanese coins and your site was #2 or #3 in the google search results. Congratulations.
I wish I knew how to program. I am seriously thinking about starting retirement with a 2 year program at the local community college to figure it out. My site is dumbed down drag and drop from Weebly. What you describe is a goal but I'm still in training wheels!
I had no idea that my site was that high in a google search...I should probably divert some of my time into finishing the pages I left hanging.
Photography is another skill to upgrade. With ancients (and some of the Japanese bean money and medals) in particular focus stacking is next on the agenda and I've spent the last three hours trying to find one little piece of equipment to help...the internet rabbit holes are extensive. I've also spent entirely too much time thinking about physical storage too. I have all sorts of books, trial holders, and doohickeys for my camera set up on the way.
Somehow though GETTING ORGANIZED seems to be the best way to start...and I think I'm happy with the Tap Forms. Fortunately I have another week off from work and I can start pulling this all together.
All in all, this is a nutty hobby. Coins yes. But now websites (programming even???), photography, and more photography, plus the photo editing software, books, classes, archival storage, fonts, logo designs, databases and spreadsheets. Shoot I even have learned the difference between vector vs. raster formats. You know, because this is important:
(an actual skyline silhouette for the Nearby Big City...though a real greyhound does not generally sit so pretty).