Saint Gaudens vs Liberty Head Double Eagles
CoinPhysicist
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Just a quick question for the experts here. Do Saint Gaudens double eagles carry any premium over Liberty Head ones?
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Depends on the year and grade.
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Fair enough. I should have specified. Bullion type Saint Gaudens vs Bullion type Liberty Heads.
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If you are speaking of generic low MS or AU pieces then there's not a lot of difference. Both will be valued almost entirely on their melt content. Not long ago generic 62/63 Libs carried nice premiums to melt. No more though.
For common Libs/Saints in grades lower than MS63, I don't believe there is any spread in the premium from type to type. Only on MS64 and higher will you see that Libs have higher premiums on comom dates. Most Saints never saw a pocket and spent their lives in bags and vaults. Just had over 1000 $20 Saints in MS62-63 arrive in the shop the other day. The market is saturated and will take time to recover, but the premiums will never be what they once were.
Thanks for the insights, was just kind of curious. Certainly aware of the market saturation
. That is a hell of a lot of gold...
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Great question. I'm looking to pick up some $20s for the kids and just looking to buy them as close to spot as possible for stacking. Locally to me - the shops still want premiums way beyond what I'm willing to pay for low MS examples.
@Yacorie1 ...Yes, the same around this area.... They think gold coins are rare and wonderful.... the premiums for low grade, non key coins are ridiculous. Most are worth melt and yet they are asking a 40% premium. I laugh at them and walk away. Cheers, RickO
Glad to see it’s not just me. Is like to get them locally to avoid the PayPal additional fees and shipping costs but It hasn’t really happened
Pick the design you prefer, they are about the same in value. My local dealers also put more of a premium on any slabbed coin than it deserves. For the best deal, you may have to order your coins from the big guys.
Higher grade Liberty double eagles are scarcer that Saints and are thus more expensive in MS63 and higher grade. Saints have lettered edges and they tend to have fewer and less severe bag marks for this reason. Liberty double eagles have reeded edges and tend to have more bag marks since the reeds act like little knives. Don't forget that double eagles are big, heavy and relatively soft since they are gold and they were stored in canvas bags that got moved and tossed around a lot.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm always on the lookout for deals online since locally its too expensive. Ebay has AGEs for 15 buck over melt right now - and the cheapest graded $20 are about 115 over melt for random MS63s.
I like Big Goldz and I cannot lie.
Common dates, slabbed, uncirculated should be readily available for 10% (or less) over melt.
e.g MS62 Saints, MS60/61 Libs.
I just started collecting pre-1850 $20 libertys, I have enough $20 st Gaudens
Huh? I hope you are joking.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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I just started collecting pre-1850 $20 libertys, I have enough $20 st Gaudens> @PerryHall said:
yeah, I was-I would have to sell off everything I have to get the 1949 proof. in the process of picking up a 1933 $10 indian though.
Thanks for the responses and then the joking stuff everyone. Follow up question that doesn't warrant a new thread. Does a sub 250k mintage for any raw gold coin give it any premium over a generic bid price? Or not enough to do it?
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I’ve found that lower end common Saints are often a bit less than Liberty heads.
depends on the survival mintage, many of the pre-33 gold coins were melted during the fdr administration. take the 1933 $10 gold indian, mintage was 312,000, with only 30 to 35 known examples left. this coin sells in the 6 and 7 figgures
I would never buy a raw old gold coin, if it's still not graded yet, there are problems. most older gold coins will not grade out due to cleaning or other problems
Wouldn’t they get a ‘Details’ authentication grade, in a holder, these days instead of being returned in a body bag?
yes they do, try selling a coin in a detail holder sometime. even semi-key days will only bring melt value or maybe a little more
As expected, but I’d buy with the same mindset....but never unslabbed pre-33 for me due to many fakes.
yes, another reason to buy graded gold coins, a lot of fakes out there
Absolutely. Why PCGS and NGC exist. If not for them I wouldn’t be a buyer. Genius business idea.
Oh stop it
a lot of these coins are near melt in slabs now. Where is the head room to send in a coin to be graded if it won't sell for more than melt+ grading fees+ shipping?
Why is it so hard to tell ? dump a bunch of raw gold on the table I can spot a fake coin. Anyone can , and if they can't tell by looking at it and feeling it then weigh it and measure it.
What are you going to make a fake gold coin out of that will weigh right and have the correct dimensions? That will feel like gold and sound like gold?
Don't tell me tungsten , that is strictly a bar thing. If you are running around buying 400 oz. gold bars then study up on it I guess .
Show me a tungsten quarter eagle or eagle or sovereign .................... somebody?.......................... anybody?........ bueller?................... nope there aren't any. And don't say , my cousin's brother's friend's ex-room mate saw one in 1981
Now if you are talking about adding a mintmark to simulate a rarity ok , that can happen , or putty or whizzing but why would anyone who stacks bullion be buying stuff like that at all ? No one is going to doctor a gold coin that sells for melt because even with a great big X scratched across it its still worth melt
if you can buy a pre-33 gold coin in a slab for near melt, why on earth would you buy a ungraded pre-33 gold coin at near melt?
Actually I mainly buy 20 francs , sovereigns , pesos and wedding bands and I aint skeered of raw .
What about a fake coin in a fake slab ..... how you going to tell if you can't touch it or weigh it or feel it or measure how thick it is?
The comment about never buying raw gold is pretty amusing. Generic slabbed gold basically sells at the same price as raw. Knowing that, tell me why anyone would pay to slab a generic raw gold coin. They trade raw all the freaking time.
That being said, the point about survival is worth considering.
Most of the comments are tangent to the original question(s)
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I don’t do gold and don’t trust myself to spot fakes so I buy slabbed for the kids
Ummmm, a good 22k fake from the 60’s. May be same metal content, but just try to sell it. Good luck!
Yes, almost same price...so I buy only slabbed in this market. I think it prudent based on the current pricing.
Experts better than me are who I want detecting fakes.
My point is that when buying from someone, they will try to charge more for the slabbed coin. But when selling, they will offer the same for the slabbed as the raw one. So it's a net losing endeavor to pay for a slabbed coin when you go to resell it. Assuming same market conditions and same gold prices. It's much harder to break even.
But this really sidetracks from the topic in this thread, the questions I posed.
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Thats what I always called the ratchet effect. Its a one way lock on prices that is permanently frozen in the direction away from the stacker. The noble coin dealers of the world always apply it to the little guy.
If you walk in with a saint to sell you will hear there is no demand for them in a slab, if you point to one in their magical display case however it will be bathed in an unearthly glow and soft music will play as they reach for the holy grey sheet .
Its a variation of the time-honored GEM-BU to XF stutter step you will witness with a raw coin. When you see that sweet morgan in the case with the Bu label in the corner of the 2x2 you will be quoted all of MS-66 + pricing , 2 years later bring it back and the dealer will slide it under his electron microscope and pronounce it an XF. If you point out the word GEM in his own handwriting in the corner the stammering and stuttering begins
Mark me down as a buyer of $10 or $20 slabbed gold close to spot if some of you are sellers
I agree, bu they do. All the time.
(I work in a B&M)
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I bought several pcgs ms-62 $10 indian golds not too long ago for 675 each, and I got 67.50 each in e bucks for them. I know a few people on here that bought from the same auction that will back me up on that
i meant $10 liberty golds, and i also bought pcgs ms-63 $20 St Gaudens $20 dollar double eagles at near melt, well below melt after e bucks. they were all very nice too, no low ends for the grade
That’s the deal I’ve been trying to find
Can the moderators close this thread? Clearly no one commenting has any desire to keep to the topics that I wanted to talk about in this thread. And really, a disagree for pointing out something that is reasonably accepted? Come on.
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I’ve learned some valuable information in this discussion, and I’m glad that it happened.
I tend to just not revisit threads that are no longer of interest.
thats not how we roll around here
go look at the goodbye thread on the US coin forum if you really want to see a thread go sideways
Seems to me that the question was answered and I don't see any reason to close down a thread when people want to exchange banter about coins & bullion after that.
Well, it took 32 years, but the premiums are about where they should've been all along. My opinion.
I knew it would happen.
>
Patients are a virtue. Lol
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I bought AGEs instead of classic gold in 1986 because of the premiums, and never looked back.
I knew it would happen.
Only if you are running a hospital and they have plenty of insurance.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire