Best Of

@jmlanzaf said:

@lermish said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Greenstang said:
It’s easier to watch a couple of youtube videos
And that is why you are posting worthless coins.
YouTube and AI are a full of misinformation and a poor choice to learn anything about numismatics
Your not going to learn everything at once, in fact I don’t think that there is anyone who knows
everything about coins. If you learn something different everyday , then you will eventually have a
fairly good knowledge of coins. Even by reading previous posts, you can gain some knowledge.

But he's the worthless meme guy.

He's not a worthless memeguy or a worthless-meme guy. I love his memes! Best humor on the forum by a long shot.

It was a joke based on "worthless coins"...

If only it had been in meme form...

@jmlanzaf said:

@NJCoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ProofCollection said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@NJCoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ProofCollection said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@NJCoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@NJCoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@NJCoin said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ProofCollection said:

@HATTRICK said:

@Rc5280 said:

@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.

Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.

Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again

@jmlanzaf said:

@HATTRICK said:

@Rc5280 said:

@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.

Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.

Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again

They don't have to mint them all and they don't if they don't think it will sell out. It's not lying if it's true ..

ATS - we are guessing means "available to sell." This is not a mintage. This is not a limit.
I witnessed on the Kennedy Half Dollar rolls that they did not load the entire inventory into the system on day one. The number dwindled close to zero and then suddenly about 40% of the product limit was 'ats.' Now they are completely sold out. Why this happens we can only speculate and it's really none of our business. The important thing is to know what the number starts at when it goes on sale initially.

@NJCoin said:

@HATTRICK said:

@NJCoin said:

@HATTRICK said:

@Rc5280 said:

@adzeesh said:
I’m guessing if it sells out within 24 hours they won’t lift the HHL for cancellations just like Sacagawea.

Agree, and with a dwindling "ats" currently 'available to sell' at 5285 coins, it looks like a quick sell out.
Also available at the ANA, but the line will be long.

Mintage limit 12,000 ats 5,285 before they even go on sale ?
Make lying wrong again

I've been very unhappy with a lot of the games they have been playing lately, but I REALLY think it is a week too early to get worked up over what you see on ATS. With a mintage of 12K, it's reasonable to expect between 1-2K to go to ABPP, and maybe another 1K between the ANA and the retail outlets.

That leaves between 9-10K to be available via phone and the web on 8/21. I'll wait to see what ATS shows at 11:59 a.m. on 8/21, and then, if it's around 5K and they sell out in minutes without being replenished, I'll join you in screaming.

I actually think the Mint has been fairly transparent lately with respect to what they make available to retail. Gold Sac at 7500 and Superman at 10K had no advance sales. These, with a mintage of 12K, do.

I think around 10K will be available to the public. Which includes the ANA show and the retail counters. No way they are going hold back 7K out of 12K.

And, I sure hope they don't short strike these, based on past demand. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

I don’t remember how long for the second batch before, however could it be the mint wants to give a later group of collectors who could not get on at 12:00 a chance to buy ?

Anything is possible. But, with a widely announced start time and a waiting room, why?

We honestly have no idea what is going on, and we are speculating based on hidden code we are not even supposed to have access to.

Why are we not supposed to have access to it? It's a publicly available webpage. Just because they haven't bothered to make it pretty and presentable doesn't mean the public isn't supposed to access it. If they wanted to keep it hidden, they certainly could have chosen to.

Exactly this...

Go look at the issues with unlimited mintages. There is still an ATS number which is the actual number AVAILABLE to sell. If they Mint more they add them to the number.

They are not going to sell coins they don't have that will obligate them to make them even if they don't have the time or inclination.

I don't know why anyone thinks this is anything but an HONEST inventory number. You're looking at the HTML code for the actual sale page.

Why is because when it counts down to 0, and then immediately appears with several thousand more, it is anything but "an HONEST inventory number." In fact, it is nothing more than the subset of the total inventory that has been loaded into the online system to be made available for sale to the public at any given point in time.

Superman went from 5K to 0 in less than 2 hours on release day, and then back up to 5K less than an hour later. They didn't produce the additional 5K in that time, and then add them to "HONEST inventory." Because they hadn't yet produced any at all.

They simply first loaded 5K into the system, and then loaded an additional 5K when the first 5K sold through. The first 5K was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than an arbitrary subset of 10K that they chose to load into the system at launch. That's why I happen to think "this is anything but an HONEST inventory number." YMMV.

They don't have to make them to commit to making them, especially on a pre-sale.

ATS is quite literally what it says. It is not "mintage".

Understood. But it's not "an HONEST inventory number" when it counts down to 0 and then snaps back to several thousand several minutes later. Multiple times before final sell out. Not unless the Mint rushes out in the few minutes, mints the additional coins, and then promptly adds them to "HONEST inventory."

Having them sitting in the wings for days ahead of time, waiting for someone to arbitrarily add them to ATS, does not render the previously loaded quantity a reflection of "HONEST inventory." It renders it nothing more than a random number made available for sale at a given point in time that is unrelated to actual inventory.

Or when Superman started out at 5K, steadily counted down to 0, and promptly went back to 5K an hour or so later. Whatever that was, "0" was not "an HONEST inventory number." It was nothing more than the quantity loaded into a sales system until they decided to load more. In fact, every number from the first 5K down to 0 was 5K short of the "HONEST inventory number."

Nothing had yet been minted, but a maximum mintage of 10K had been announced. Whatever games they played with FH gold and silver, and whatever games they might choose to play in the future with respect to short minting in spite of demand, you can rest assured that with a licensing deal with a partner that has no interest in Mint games or secondary market values down the road, if 10K is announced as a maximum mintage and can be sold, 10K will be minted and sold.

As was shown when the missing 5K was loaded immediately after the first 5K, anything but "HONEST inventory," sold through. Sitting unsold ever since after canceled orders. In fact, as of 2 days ago, it was reported in the Superman thread that the ATS number was around 2500 less than the sales on the official Mint report from earlier in the week indicated it should be. It is not "an HONEST inventory number," because 2500gold Superman coins that have not yet shipped, if they were even made, did not simply disappear, and is sure to be revised at some point in the future, if it has not already been updated.

You can't bring yourself to ever concede a point, can you?

Concede what point? The number is the number. You're the one who wants it to be different number.

EVERY BUSINESS in the planet has a constantly changing inventory number. It goes up when you add items, either due to manufacture or purchase or return. It goes down as you sell them.

If a bakery showed 3 donuts left to sell but then made a batch and it jumped to 53, would you call them dishonest?

There's no point to concede. You're the one at odds with reality here because you want the number to be "mintage limit remaining" instead of "available to sell".

Concede the point that, while the number is the number, it is only the number of items loaded into the online sales system at any given point in time. It is not "an HONEST inventory number" when it steadily counts down from 5,000 to 0, only to snap back from 0 to 5,000 minutes later.

The bakery is a great example of what is not happening here. With both Superman and Army privy, no additional coins were made. Coins were in inventory, and available for sale, but held back from the system until they were added at an arbitrary point in time.

I'm not saying the ATS number isn't a number, and I'm not saying the website does not show that the item is Unavailable when ATS = 0. I'm just saying that ATS does not necessarily represent "an HONEST inventory number" until it does, and you cannot bring yourself to concede that point, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

It is "available to sell". That IS the "inventory number" because it is the coins you can buy. There may be zero actual physical coins for a presale and if sales are slow they may not want to Mint the full mintage.

I don't care if you want to call it "inventory " or not but I refuse to call it "dishonest".

It is the very honest "ats" number.

No it's not. Think about Nintendos at a physical Target location. There are 10 on the shelf but there are 5 in the back warehouse. The "ats" equivalent for that Target location would be 10, not 15 because the most you can load your cart with and buy is 10 (without additional effort).

Either way, none of us actually know what "ats" means because no one here has inside information or designed the website, but based on observations it most clearly and definitely is not "total inventory" which in my Nintendo example would be 15.

Inventory number at Lowe's include what's in the back room. So... yes. But i really don't care if you call it "inventory" or not. That's a semantic debate. The point is that it is the number available. In this instance you can literally buy every single "ats" immediately (hhl aside). So... yes... but your own definition.

Again, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Yes, of course, at any given point in time, you cannot buy more than what is loaded into ATS. But, as @ProofCollection said, if you get the manager to find you the 5 in the back, the number reflected in ATS is not "an HONEST inventory number." As I said before, it's just a random number loaded into ATS.

As shown repeatedly in the past few weeks, as the Mint allowed ATS to slowly count down to 0 with the Army privies before springing back to life, repeatedly, until they lifted the HHL and actually sold out. Each time they were counting down, more were available in the back room, waiting to be loaded. So the ATS number at any given point in time was indeed the number they released for sale at that moment, but was certainly not "an HONEST inventory number."

Same thing happened with Superman. They loaded 5K into inventory, and then another 5K when the first 5K sold through in less than 2 hours. They most certainly did not have an emergency meeting in the interim to decide to mint coins they were not otherwise going to mint. Because they had a deal with a licensing partner from the get-go to make up to 10K. They never had less available to sell, even though ATS only showed 5K at launch.

Play all the word games you want. Never admit you are wrong. It's fine, and is actually part of your charm.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂

Mirror, mirror on the wall....

You're the one arguing over the word. You don't like "inventory", don't use it. The rest of us know what "ats" means

It doesn't mean inventory, that's for sure.

The physical "inventory " is zero for a pre-sale. The question was never over "inventory", it was over "honest". NJ turned it into a semantic debate over the word "inventory" despite my trying to move away from the word.

The ATS number is the actual number of items available to be sold at any point in time. Period.

If it was never over inventory, I am not the one who coined the phrase "an HONEST inventory number." YOU are!

It's neither honest nor inventory. It's just a number they load into a system until they choose to load more. As I have said repeatedly now, we have seen multiple instances, with multiple products, since the middle of July where the number has bounced around, repeatedly, with no relation to either product available for sale nor actual sales to date.

For the 5th time, strike "inventory" if it bothers you. The number is "honest" as it is the number available to sell. Period. The Mint doesn't openly display or promote this number, so your conspiracy theory is ridiculous. They load in the number they are prepared to sell. Why is that so hard to grasp?

And, for the 6th, time, it is not "HONEST," if there are several thousand more, just waiting to be loaded when someone gets around to it. It is nothing more than the number they made available at that point in time. If it was truly the number available to sell, it would count down to zero and be done.

Because there would be no more available to sell. Unless they made more, or orders were canceled AFTER ATS hit 0. We know that is not the case due to the amount by which the number jumps when it is adjusted.

There is no way that many orders are canceled in the short period of time between 0 and the jump to several thousand. No, those were cancellations over days, just waiting to be loaded. Items available for sale, but not actually made available for sale, for no reason other than someone didn't update ATS. Likely because they felt no need, since ATS was above 0, and no one felt it was important to do so for the sole purpose of rendering your argument valid.

Just saying it is what it is because it is is saying nothing at all. Yes, we all know ATS represents the quantity the system is able to take orders for. But it does not represent what you swear it represents. It represents nothing more than what it is. A random number. Until it hits 0 for the final time.

This all started because someone saw a number significantly less than 12K for these coins. That number is NOT the number they are going to sell, unless they short strike these. 1-2K are surely going to ABPP. 5K are not going to OKC and the 3 other retail sales counters.

Title pretty much sums it up.
I have a few duplicate raw ‘62/‘63 Franklins that I might try to trade in OKC and didn’t know if there was any premium on them. They’re nice, but they aren’t going 68DCAM cam or anything. Very normal proofs from the era. Straight melt, or maybe a little more (or less?)?
Thanks!

@Catbert said:
Wait, isn't that the handkerchief variety?

The snot variety, not a berry popular issue