A Message from the President - Davalillo, etc.

JoeOrlando · February 9, 2004 3:57AM

Hello All,

I appreciate your feedback on this issue but I want to clarify a few things:

1) These boards are PSA's boards - there is only so much that PSA will tolerate, including me. I have said time and time again that, if an anti-PSA agenda is perceived over time, then you will be banned from posting. We just will not tolerate PSA "bashing" - especially where someone is constantly making up ridiculous stories and spreading false rumor for the sole purpose of harming our brand. Since these boards are PSA's, I think that is a fair request.

2) For the record, I called Jim numerous times and left message after message. There was a time, to be fair to Jim, when we were playing phone tag back and forth but it got to the point where Jim was no longer returning my calls. If he were truly interested in talking or discussing any "concerns" like an adult, I was available - and still am as always.

3) I know Jim is a collector with a lot of PSA cards. I have known that for years but that does not mean I will tolerate unfounded PSA bashing over and over again. People should treat others like they want to be treated. Jim has been very disrespectful to PSA employees and to some of you on the boards. I wanted to discuss Jim's "issues" with him but he was not interested. I do not care how many cards you have - if you want to be a part of the boards, then act like it.

I consider PSA a family of people. Collectors, dealers, auction houses, employees, etc., etc., etc. - we are all in this together. That doesn't mean we will always agree - family members argue sometimes - but, if it is clear that you are trying to harm the family, there is no place for you here. I cannot, for the life of me, explain why Jim would constantly make up stories, claim to have sources (which he never had) and bash PSA when he owned so many PSA cards but his intentions were clear.

Some of you, though very few, know me personally. I think I am a very patient person and - hopefully - a pretty nice guy. In this case, if anything, I tolerated this behavior for too long. For that, I am sorry and appreciate everyone's patience but I, and PSA, will not apologize for protecting our brand-your brand. I am very accessible and enjoy discussing issues with all collectors - you guys make PSA what it is today and I appreciate that more than you know. This situation, however, is clear.

I have no personal issue with Jim. He confuses me to no end but it's not personal. If you attack PSA in this manner, constantly, you are gone.

Take care and thanks for your support,

Joe Orlando
PSA President

goodriddance189 · February 9, 2004 4:11AM

Joe, thanks for taking the time to clear it up

brianwintersfan · February 9, 2004 4:12AM

Well said and to the point.
Thanks Joe!

koby · February 9, 2004 4:18AM

Thank you for the clarification.

34GoudeyCollector · February 9, 2004 4:19AM

Thanks Joe for clearing this up!

Ken

augustaman · February 9, 2004 4:25AM

I consider you a "class act." Thank you Joe.

Howitallbegan · February 9, 2004 4:26AM

Joe

Thanks for taking time out to explain this to all the "less than 1%ers here"

EOMINT · February 9, 2004 4:36AM

All I know is whenever I read one of Joe's posts I'm glad I have my cards in PSA slabs...you read what he writes you say to yourself that guy is reasonable and cares about protecting his brand, and I like to see that.

When I read Davalillo's posts I can't say that I feel the same way...his posts pose as constructive but their underlying tone is destructive. I'd prefer it if he took his cards out of PSA holders, there just a bunch of ugly 8s anyway, it aint like they are 9s or 10s...

EO

onegaucho · February 9, 2004 4:40AM

Thanks for taking the time to respond Joe.

ejguru · February 9, 2004 4:42AM

EOMINT: Well said.

Joe O.: Thanks for the prompt explanation to the legions of PSA supporters, both vocal and silent.

1954 · February 9, 2004 4:48AM

Joe,
I totally agree with you on everything that you have mentioned above. Thank you for doing a great job. Could you please start doing more of this? I would like to see some of these guys gone that continually picks fights and says hurtful things. I am not sure who Igloo is, but his nine posts would explain my point.

Shane Leonard

grilloj39 · February 9, 2004 4:59AM

EOMint...you say Jim has nothing but a bunch of ugly "8's", but then you praise PSA....nice way to throw "fuel on the fire," but what a contradiction. If the 8's are ugly, does that mean they are undeserved/overgraded? If so, that is a reflection on the grading company and not on Jim's collection.

This whole Jim vs. the President is unfortunate. We've heard both stories and you know how the old adage goes...the answer lies somewhere in the middle of the two.

Mr Orlando said Jim was "disrespectful" to some PSA employees and others on this board. Well you all know it has been a "2-way street" in that regard as he has been disrespected at times as well (even in this thread). Jim should have remained on this board, but it's Mr Orlando's board and he can do what he wishes...I realize that. However, I would expect the President to take a higher road by either not commenting at all, or banning several members (even if they are PSA supporters) who have been "disrespectful" as well.

Fabfrank · February 9, 2004 5:00AM

Thanks Joe for coming on the boards and letting us hear your side. Hopefully you and Dav can work out your differences and we can all be one happy, dysfunctional family

GoSoxBoSox · February 9, 2004 5:03AM

Joe,

I guess the disturbing part of this for me is that you said you have called Jim a few times and left him messages. I'm glad to hear you reached out to him since he's a big customer, but I'm very disturbed to hear he never called you back.

I can't help to think there some kind of confusion going on here. It's probably mine.

Life goes on....

Tom

GlennGaryGlennRoss · February 9, 2004 5:04AM

Joe,

If we could ban Grillo next, that would suit me just fine. He's a GAI bigot anyhow and is one of davalillos biggest supporters.

Vargha · February 9, 2004 5:08AM

Jim was not subversive in any way against PSA. One can argue with his methods, but to me it was quite clear that he had and still has serious concerns about what is a sizable investment in PSA encapsulated cards. Joe can do what he wants (as he has stated many times), but to me he is shooting the messenger. If certain rumors are unfounded, then refute them in no uncertain terms. As of this date, nothing has truly been settled on the WIWAG issue. Jim has presented one side and Dude has presented another. Joe has presented neither. While there may be no imrpopriety involved, a person who takes the public discussion equivalent of "the fifth" gives an appearance of impropriety whether intended or not.

theBobs · February 9, 2004 5:10AM

Based on Jim's response over at SGC, doesn't look like Joe and Jim will be making up anytime soon. Likely that his SGC post will be edited or removed shortly.

purelyPSA · February 9, 2004 5:14AM

I'm at a loss here as to what to think, though I reiterate my support for Jim's reinstatement. Hopefully egos don't get in the way and this can be resolved constructively.

Vargha · February 9, 2004 5:15AM

I wouldn't count on it.

miami3 · February 9, 2004 5:26AM

Joe,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the PSA side of the story!

We appreciate all of your help and concern.

Keep up the good work!

Jim

FB · February 9, 2004 5:34AM

Joe,

Thanks for coming on the boards and presenting PSA's position.

I still think that a "ban" was a little harsh when instead pulling the thread(s) might have sufficed - coupled with a warning. I wasn't a big fan of the rumors - because honestly, without your input - it was just a lot of conjecture that meant very little.

I understand your position completely when stating that you need to "protect the brand" because PSA is a public company and brand-bashing will only hurt its reputation, stockholders and customers in the long run.

I am happy to hear that you continued (and continue) to try to reach out to Jim because frankly I'd love to see everyone just get along and get back to ENJOYING cards again.

Thanks again for coming on the boards and speaking your peace. I still hold out hope that you and Jim (and others) can eventually come to terms.

scottsusor · February 9, 2004 5:36AM

Most of you don't know me, and I definitely don't know Joe Orlando, because I'm so new to the PSA world and to this board. However, I'm not a baseball card newbie, nor really a grading (in general) newbie, as I've been around the hobby since 1969.

What I'd like to share here is my experience in another world, quite similar to this in terms of "internet message board interaction." I happen to own a mobile DJ business here in Houston, Texas. The mobile DJ profession also has private message board web sites, two major ones and several small ones. And if you think the %#@& flies here, you should see THOSE boards. This is a sandbox spat compared to the global thermonuclear wars they fight over there, and that includes banning aplenty of posters due to offenses against the board owners, moderators and members.

As Mr. Orlando stated, these are PSA's boards. What that means in layman's terms is that they are private owned and operated by his enterprise, the same as the mobile DJ message boards in that somewhat parallel universe. There are public boards in places like Yahoo and MSN where anything goes because they are essentially unowned and unmoderated. If you've ever been there, and you have more than a squirrel-sized brain, you don't ever go back. Why? Because though they follow the "free speech" mantra literally, its just plain repulsive how things are there.

I also don't know Davalillo, except from what I've read of his posts here during the last couple of months. As such, I guess I have as unbiased a perspective as anybody. I've never had any detailed interactions with him but I've seen his interactions with others. And my perspective is that he does not belong here. He belongs in a public forum, not a private one. Sure, he has value to contribute, lots of it most likely. And when somebody contributes value, he/she is generally granted leeway by the private board's owner/moderator in being controversial. Let's face it -- if everybody simply marched in lock-step on every issue, there'd be little to discuss.

What I can say is that, in the two months I've been here, I've seen absolutely no high-handed control by this board's ownership over what is said here. At one of those mobile DJ boards I mentioned, the ownership has a legion of official and unofficial moderators that pretty much gang up on anybody who takes a point of view that differs from the norm established by the board's ownership. I see no evidence of that going on here. PSA appears to allow both supporting and critical commentary at reasonable levels. And that is what a private message board is supposed to be about.

Scott

carew4me · February 9, 2004 5:53AM

Scott,

If for every JIM that gets booted we get a "SCOTT" in return,
I'll take that.

Nice post.

As I said so many times before: THERE ARE MANY SEASONED, EXPERIENCED COLLECTORS OUT THERE

Some of people on this board just can't except that fact.

If we lose a BOTN or Davavillo then there are many many more who will step in to take there place.
They may be great people but the collecting world in general does not suffer if they stop posting here.
In fact, those level headed folks may be just waiting for the a** clowns to be cleared out so they can join the boards.

1420sports · February 9, 2004 5:57AM

I'd prefer it if he took his cards out of PSA holders, there just a bunch of ugly 8s anyway, it aint like they are 9s or 10s...

There is nothing wrong with PSA 8's or PSA 3's for that matter - not every card has to be a 9 or 10 ... if that is what you meant.

pc · February 9, 2004 6:06AM

i think to Eomint davalillo's collection
doesn't warrant his bashing the brand.
it is unfortunate that davalillo returned
twice given he told us all he would be gone
given we're all a bunch of uninformed peons.
he wasted joe's time and ours.

Skycap · February 9, 2004 6:30AM

Joe, you are a class act.

Your message strikes at the very essense of why I decided three years ago to collect PSA graded cards to the exclusion of all others... and why I shall continue doing so.

Banning Davalillo was clearly the appropriate course of action and, in fact, long overdue. How can any company tolerate having someone post such unfounded, accusatory and hurtful messages about its own products and employees on its very own web site? They can't.

Skycap

Putty · February 9, 2004 6:30AM

Joe, I thank you for taking the time to state your position and address this issue. I only joined these boards about 7 months ago, but in that time I have gained a tremendous amount of respect for the knowledge and experience the folks on these boards have. I count Jim in that group. Knowledge is indeed power, and Jim did contribute at least in that way to the boards (in regards to card collecting).

While it is unfortunate that he is banned, these boards are indeed PSA’s, and if as you mentioned Jim was mistreating your employees and for some reason the two of you could not sit down and talk, well than you are well within your rights to ban him.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you….

GlennGaryGlennRoss · February 9, 2004 6:34AM

I have asked about 30 different times for someone to point out where all of Davalillos incredible contributions to this board are hidden. So dont go knocking Jims posts where he calls everyone uninformed peons. Those must be some of his greatest contributions.

schr1st · February 9, 2004 6:35AM

After reading Joe's comments, and rereading Jim's posts, I still don't see enough of a reason for him to have been banned from these boards. I understand that posting here is not a right but a privilege, one that can be revoked for any reason PSA sees fit or for no reason whatsoever, and that is certainly acceptable.

As for playing phone tag with Jim, perhaps Jim has more important things to do than make calls to discuss the same issues over and over again. You once asked me to give you a call about the rejected submission policy (remember the whole Lew Alcindor argument) after we had exchanged a couple of emails Joe, but for someone like me who is on the phones all day long (I've taken 2 calls since I started this post), emails are an easier means of communication. At that point, I gave up trying to have the discussion, as I felt my original statements were about as clear as I could make them, and if you didn't understand me then, you probably never would no matter how many emails we exchanged.

As for your comment of

<< <i>People should treat others like they want to be treated. >>

Of course that is the best way people should act towards one another, but sometimes it's difficult to do so. Jim is on the customer end of the "customer-vendor" relationship that he has (had) with PSA, and as such should has a bit more leeway. I don't think "The Customer is always right.", I'm more of the "Understand the customers needs, and if you can't meet them try to find some common ground to work from." While I don't excuse him if he has been rude to PSA employees, if he felt that his issues and complaints were actually being addressed, he'd probably be much less adversarial.

I'm a big fan of PSA, Joe, and want to see the brand succeed. The recognition PSA has in the hobby is something that you all have worked hard to achieve, and I'm glad to be able to say that PSA is the best grading company in the marketplace (granted, as I've said before at times that statement is akin to being voted most likely to succeed in reform school, but I digress). PSA does have issues Joe, issues that can be taken care of with better communication from ANYONE at PSA. The fact that the questions regarding WIWAG still have not been answered is inexcusable Joe. The best way to get rid of rumors is not to ignore them, but to refute them. The only reason clowns like Wentz and BOTN start making statements like "WIWAG had unused holders and a sealing machine, and were slabbing their own cards" or "There are 10s of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of tainted PSA cards out there from WIWAG" is because PSA has never made any sort of statement on the matter. All it would take would be one simple statement from you, saying "WIWAG did not have unused holders, and were not sealing their own cards.", and poof, all of their rumor-mongering lacks substance. I'll take your word over theirs any day of the week Joe and I'm sure that just about everyone here would as well, but when you aren't talking, doubt starts to creep in. I know that their "sources" have the same veracity as Ms. Cleo's, but others in the hobby may not, especially newer collectors who many not know the difference between the grading companies.

Feel free to discuss my comments so far, I'll continue my comments when I get back from a meeting.

DrNguyenVanFalk · February 9, 2004 6:37AM

This whole ugly business involving Jim and Joe is just another black eye to a hobby that cannot afford many more scandals and incidents.

Part of me thinks that the hobby would be better served without message boards, because many of us (me included, at times) just use it to bicker and gossip like a group of jealous schoolgirls . . . if people need to feel justified in their selection of PSA as a grading company, they can just look up completed auction prices on eBay, instead of attacking those on the board (including Jim, IMHO) who want to make a good thing better.

Of course, I'm not as close to the situation as Jim or Joe or many others on the board - it's just a shame that it happened.

VintageVikes · February 9, 2004 6:56AM

Joe - thanks for taking the time to respond and explain PSA position in this matter. Appreciated.

Treat others the way you want to be treated is something we all should remind ourselves everyday in life. Is it hard to do? Extremely hard to do, but not impossible.

Thanks again and for me I'm glad to own PSA graded cards.

scottsusor · February 9, 2004 7:07AM

<< <i>... instead of attacking those on the board (including Jim, IMHO) who want to make a good thing better. >>

I'd just like to point out that there are two channels by which an individual can attempt to "make a good thing better" -- publicly and privately. If enough individuals feel that an improvement/change is needed, and those individuals communicate that message privately to somebody like Joe Orlando, that gets a lot more attention/consideration than any sort of public "bandwagoning" or "grandstanding" can ever hope to achieve. Think about it. An enterprise like PSA wants to be successful, and to be successful it must please its client base. But do you ever see an unruly gang of customers waging war at the corporate office of General Motors (just for example) because they don't happen to like the way General Motors does business? Nope. You can bet General Motors can and will change its policies if enough of its customers complain. But it happens more quickly and effectively via private communications, not via public lynch mob mentality. And too often in the short time I've been here, that is what I've seen in Davalillo -- the "come follow me and I will lead you to salvation" approach. I've seen the same thing in the mobile DJ message board world, and it gets old quickly.

Just my unbiased perspective, for what its worth.

Scott

z2345 · February 9, 2004 7:12AM

JO

First of all, I want to thank PSA for providing these boards for our enjoyment. I have learned a great deal from different posters on these forums and this has served to make the hobby much more enjoyable for myself. I think we as collectors sometimes take services such as the CU forums for granted.

Second, I think your actions are completely appropriate. Davalillo has been a disruptive figure here for a long long time. On more than one occassion, he has chosen to remove himself from these boards only to return here are be more disruptive. Even now, Davalillo fails to demonstrate any contrition and continues to bash PSA and its employees every chance he gets on other forums. While it is perplexing as to why he chooses to conduct himself in this manner, it appears that the consensus is that we are glad to see Davalillo banned. Perhaps now we can get back to enjoying these hobby forums.

Keep up the great work.

z2345

1954 · February 9, 2004 7:35AM

I never understood why Davilillo would post negative things about PSA and would constantly bring up things like the WIWAG scandel when he had so much invested with PSA's name on it. I know that he said that he was only trying to improve the service of PSA and keep us the collectors informed. I appreciate his concern for all of us, however this was something that should have been done privately with Joe. If I have $1,000,000 of shares in Coke and tomorrow I am drinking their product and find a squirrel head at the bottom of the Coke can, don't get me wrong, I would be PISSED off. However, I am not going on Dateline and letting the whole world know what I just found. I would discuss this "off camera" with the chief not in front of the public.

1954

SUPERPUNK813 · February 9, 2004 7:36AM

I agree 110% with Joe's post! You Da Man Joe!!!

Paul.

BugOnTheRug · February 9, 2004 7:37AM

Joe = PSA Board
Jim = 21,000 PSA cards = lotta plastic smell if house burns down = Mythical God-like Fixture

PSA Board > Mythical God-like Fixture
Mythical God-like Fixture > Peons

PSA Board + Peons > Mythical God-like Fixture + SGC Board

Just my > or = $0.02 worth.

BOTR

KING KELLOGG · February 9, 2004 7:59AM

************

Many thanks Joe !!!

Larry

rw2win · February 9, 2004 8:02AM

Who is Dav???

Robby · February 9, 2004 8:32AM

Joe , Thanks for clearing things up ! Would also like to say that I have had excellent service from Psa and all who I've come into contact with at Psa has tried to be helpful and curteous ! Not always completely happy with the grades on some of my submissions , but who hasn't thought at one time or another that there cards have been undergraded ! I would rather have my cards graded by someone that is tough and fair on grading my cards ! That's why you guy's are #1 ...........please continue to keep us informed about Psa ! Thanks ! Dave 'Robby' Robinson

BigKidAtHeart · February 9, 2004 8:35AM

Here is the REAL question:
Is ANYONE here going to "quit using PSA"
or "Switch all their cards to GAI or SGC" just because
a self-righteous, pompous, ego maniac like Davalillo got
himself kicked off these PRIVATELY OPERATED, company-owned
boards by acting like a jackass?

Here is the TRUE Answer:
NO! In fact, I bet No one will care about this
in a few weeks, except a few trolls that just like
to drudge up the past to start fights.

Buckwheat · February 9, 2004 8:56AM

Joe,

Thank you for your very professional reply. I have gone over to the SGC board to read Dav's and Botn's and MW's thread regarding this, and anyone reading the two in comparison will have no difficulty seeing who is behaving like children.

It is a shame that message boards allow people to post behind the cover of a keyboard. I think that if people had to look each other in the eye when speaking, we would see a lot less conflict.

While episodes like this will never cause me to switch to another grading company, it does make me discouraged about the hobby alltogether.

But we will move on from this. As far as BOTN's posts, I have never seen such bitter vile. It is sad that a dealer who could add so much to the hobby is so overwhelmed with hate that his entire life, like MW's, is devoted to PSA bashing.

schr1st · February 9, 2004 9:18AM

Remember though, Dr. Buck; Greg (BOTN) says he doesn't have an agenda, so it must be true.

Don't worry, their hystrionics are just part of their attempt to get Jim to cross-over his cards into ANY holder other than PSA. I'm ticked that he was banned here, but even I'm ashamed for the 2 of them.

grilloj39 · February 9, 2004 10:24AM

This is nothing more than a double-standard where the name-calling and insults are only allowed in one direction.

highend · February 9, 2004 10:27AM

buckwheat- i echo your words, i wouldn't even venture to the SGC boards because now there are at least three rumour mongers who continue to spew out anti-PSA rhetoric with no facts to back it up. i'm all for free speech and will always respect anothers opinion but the "i heard" posts are cowardly gossip. nothing more nothing less.

as a footnote, i feel badly for DAVALILLO i think he needs PSA more than they need him. if he were to cut ties with PSA and move on with another company it would probably cost him 100,000.00 to cross his cards. money he could put to much better use in the pursuit of this great HOBBY.

Mantlefan · February 9, 2004 10:46AM

Thank you Joe for taking the time to give us your/PSA's side of this matter. Judging from what I see over on the SGC board, you made the right decision!

Wayne8348 · February 9, 2004 10:56AM

Joe,

I don't pretend to have all of the answers or know everything that is going on behind the scenes, but I don't believe that Jim was trying to do anything to discredit or hurt PSA. In fact, it seemed that his interests were to improve PSA. Perhaps he was given bad information from time to time, but I don't believe he was simply making things up to tear down psa.

Jim suggested that psa was considering a one half point grading scale. When you responded to this you never said that it wasn't being considered - you said that you listen to the collectors and therefore it wasn't happening. You might have Jim to thank for bringing this issue to everyone because if he hadn't then it might have been a huge mistake by psa.

I think that if you truly wanted to resolve the issues with Jim then you would have talked with him or at least emailed him. I know you traded calls but anyone is accessible by email.

I guess this is my second major disappointment followed by the wiwag scandal. My hope is that this situation gets resolved.

Wayne

sixdart · February 9, 2004 10:56AM

I respect that this issue was addressed, but it should not have come to this point. I am surprised that a good customer was given up on because of phone tag - and yes I know the other issues. I am in account management for a software company in which we are an industry leader. NEVER would we have let an issue like this get so far out of control ... our fault or not. Nobody (ego?) wins here.

As far as Jim's approach to the PSA board and Joe, there is a difference to the east and west coast sense of business. Some of you may resent me saying this, but I work with several NY'ers and NJ'ers and they have unique business expectations. They want things done now, done correctly and work at a task until finished - which can translate to impatience. My boss is from NY and he is very much like Jim ... until I got to know him. Now that I just understand him doesn't mean that I have to necessarily like him?

... I am sorry and appreciate everyone's patience but I, and PSA, will not apologize for protecting our brand-your brand. ...

Joe Orlando
PSA President

... As of this date, nothing has truly been settled on the WIWAG issue. ...

Vargha

Because this board may be considered 1% of the total PSA client/customer base, having no resolutions or explanations on current PSA issues is no excuse. I would greatly appreciate if Joe would give this issue some recognition. We shouldn't have to hear stories, rumors, truths or lies from current or former board members - especially on other competitors forums while PSA continues to be silent. With the recent label (EBAY) switching and the WIGWAG scandal, what has PSA done, will do or doing to "protecting our brand-your brand"?

I support PSA, but some of these issues are serious to some and not to others. Just please don't ignore them?!

mshups · February 9, 2004 11:00AM

Amen. I for one have had enough!!! Thank you Joe.!!!!

_______________________________________

Matt
Mshups@wi.rr.com

grilloj39 · February 9, 2004 11:07AM

First in all fairness I want to thank Mr Orlando for allowing me to post on this board for almost three years. I was a PSA customer from 1997 - 2003. Granted there was a lot of military contingencies in between. However, I no longer want to participate in a board where posters are treated unfairly, threads removed, or rules allowed to be broken based upon a allegiance to a grading company, and can't have an honest discussion about cards, card grading, etc.

Mr Orlando...I realize this is a PSA board and you want to protect the PSA name. However, this board is more often used to slam your competitors, than serving as an anti-PSA forum. This board (even with the occasional criticism of your company) serves as a promotion tool for you and the company you represent.

I do not know Davilillo personally, it could have been anyone (whether that person has 10 or 10,000 PSA cards is irrelevant). In all honesty, I consider your actions childish (like a child who takes his ball and goes home and kicks everyone out of his back yard) and not those of a President. Leadership starts at the top...and your actions are not the actions of a professional, organizational climate.

I realize I am no one special and my announcing my departure doesn't deserve a new thread, but I just want to thank many of you for your support and help in the past.

The PSA board is filled with a lot of great people and I am appreciative of any advice or help I might have rec'd during these years.

Sincerely,
John Grillo

slvnumber2 · February 9, 2004 11:19AM

Grillo - would it make you feel any better if we insulted you and you can fire back in return? I am not sure what your loyalty is to Davillo, but after reading this board for a couple of days when I first started posting it was apparent that he had an agenda. Since this is a private board they can do whatever they want, and if they want to ban me or anyone else that is their choice. It is kind of like I can do whatever I want in my house (put my feet on the table, lay a drink down without a coaster...) but if someone else does it there is a problem. Maybe you could put up the $$ and start your own board and allow or ban whoever you want, but until that day comes I think being respectful as a guest on these boards is a wise choice.

Bingo33 · February 9, 2004 11:30AM

That was a great response Joe! Thanks!!

It appears that the SGC board is are having their own pi**ing match regarding Dav departure. Very funny.

A Message from the President - Davalillo, etc.

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