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Question on colonial grading...
ambro51
Posts: 13,627 ✭✭✭✭✭
Lets say a coin is struck unevenly, from dies which are misaligned. One set of letters is weak in indistinct, while on the opposite side the letters are strong bold square shouldered and vivid. the same on the reverse.
How is that worked into grading? Since from the lack of obvious wear on the letters on the left side, seem to me to denote high XF into BN AU, the grade is not calculated on the basis of wear alone, but 'netted' to include the weakness of the mint made lettering on the one side and balanced with the sharp letters on the other?
(trying hard to learn)
How is that worked into grading? Since from the lack of obvious wear on the letters on the left side, seem to me to denote high XF into BN AU, the grade is not calculated on the basis of wear alone, but 'netted' to include the weakness of the mint made lettering on the one side and balanced with the sharp letters on the other?
(trying hard to learn)
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Just how much is hard to say - it depends on the coin and the sum total of all attributes.
Grading Colonials is a very complicated art that takes many years of looking at a lot of coins. I agree with all the preceding comments but at the end of the day would also say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Different people and grading services like different things.
To me, I start with color and surface. A copper coin with problem free glossy surfaces in a light chocolate brown color masks a lot of sins. Next centering. I like to see all the coin there on both sides. After that, I look for a nice bold strike on both sides. Next I look at grade which maybe inconsistent with sharpness. Remember, some of these coins (Machin's Mills for example) were struck in their original state to look worn.
I evaluate in that order...but that's me.
JMO,
novacaesarea
But, as market grading goes, it will probably be net graded.
Alot of insight in this thread.
Brian
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don’t agree with the concept that grading colonial coins is “meaningless.” Doing it properly often takes a lot more than just a letter grade, a dash and a number. That means that very few colonial coins can be called “generic grades” which makes collecting these coins both challenging and interesting. Those who sell these coins on paper and on the Internet must provide pictures and descriptions to do it properly.
Early on many of the colonial coins that made it into slabs were over graded. Then the services gained a bit more expertise and the situation improved. Grading colonial coins will never be easy, and it is not something that even an experienced grader in generic U.S. coins will be able to pickup instantly. It takes a lot of practice and experience.
Famed colonial coin dealer Richard Picker was said to have never have graded a coin, he simply put a price on it's white envelope. That was what he thought it was worth, his customers could figure out the grade.
And by the way jessecarlk, as I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but as I am sure you know, copper colonial coins were largely struck in manual screw presses, one coin at a time. Dies were hand engraved and interchangeable. Copper was rolled in to thin strips from copper ingots bars. Planchets were hand cut (with kind of like cookie cutters), heated, and then individually inserted one at a time between the hammer and anvil dies that were brought together by a large wooden screw press. The wooden screw press had a long bar that turned the screw from the top and was anchored at each end with weights and turned by two men. The coin was struck, pushed out of the way to fall in a small pit that a man sat on the edge of as he inserted another planchet for striking. As you can imagine, this largely manual process resulted in a variety of errors and striking anomalies. Got to love Colonials.......The Notre Damn web site and The Colonial Newsletter have far more extensive discussions about screw presses in the late 1700s. I think you might be right otherwise but maybe about 50 to 75 years off on the technology
Best,
novacaesarea
<< <i>Hi All,
Famed colonial coin dealer Richard Picker was said to have never have graded a coin, he simply put a price on it's white envelope. That was what he thought it was worth, his customers could figure out the grade.
And by the way jessecarlk, as I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...but as I am sure you know, copper colonial coins were largely struck in manual screw presses, one coin at a time. Dies were hand engraved and interchangeable. Copper was rolled in to thin strips from copper ingots bars. Planchets were hand cut (with kind of like cookie cutters), heated, and then individually inserted one at a time between the hammer and anvil dies that were brought together by a large wooden screw press. The wooden screw press had a long bar that turned the screw from the top and was anchored at each end with weights and turned by two men. The coin was struck, pushed out of the way to fall in a small pit that a man sat on the edge of as he inserted another planchet for striking. As you can imagine, this largely manual process resulted in a variety of errors and striking anomalies. Got to love Colonials.......The Notre Damn web site and The Colonial Newsletter have far more extensive discussions about screw presses in the late 1700s. I think you might be right otherwise but maybe about 50 to 75 years off on the technology
Best,
novacaesarea >>
While it's true that most colonial coins were struck on screw presses, etc., around 1790 the concept of upsetting a blank was invented, Followed by the Boulton and Watt invention of the "rimmer" (an upsetting machine) in 1797. While the idea of an upset rim is not valid for colonial coins, it can useful for many early US coins (like the 1813 cent I was talking about).