PCGS Introduces Genuine Program

Wolf359 · November 14, 2008 1:23PM

Just got the email. No more body bags? Hell, this will increase body-bags!

Business must be really bad, imho. This will cheapen the brand, despite all the cheers this service will get out here. It's a poor business move long-term.

I would prefer a checkbox - if body bag, do NOT place in Genuine slab, thank you.

""No more body bags! PCGS is introducing a major change in its grading process, effective for submissions received after December 1, 2008. Coins that would have previously been no-graded and returned in a body bag will now be placed in a regular PCGS holder and labeled simply "Genuine." Of course this applies only to coins that have been verified to be authentic. PCGS is dropping its Genuine-only service level. Now coins can be holdered in Genuine holders regardless of the service level for which they are submitted. Variety and attribution services will be provided for Genuine coins. For example, if you submit a number of Early Half Dollars with the Overton variety requested, your coins (assuming they are authentic) will be holdered with the Overton variety and grade or with the Overton variety and Genuine (see the PCGS website for a description of grading standards at www.pcgs.com/grades.chtml. This service will also apply to crossovers, so all your coins can now be in PCGS holders. ""

Yeech....

PCcoins · November 14, 2008 1:24PM

I don't comprehend?

coinman420 · November 14, 2008 1:28PM

we don`t know all the specifics yet. will it be net grade like anacs? XF45 details cleaned? or will it just say genuine cleaned?

Wolf359 · November 14, 2008 1:30PM

We do know the specifics, the email has a photo. It just says "Genuine".

This sucks, big time. Sorry PCGS.

Halfhunter06 · November 14, 2008 1:39PM

Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT.

Wolf359 · November 14, 2008 1:45PM

<< Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT. >>

Well of course you do, because you haven't devoted 5 years to acquiring problem-free coins to place in PCGS only slabs. Hell, I'll bet you aren't even a collectors club
member.

woodardcoin · November 14, 2008 1:47PM

<< Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT. >>

GoldenEyeNumismatics · November 14, 2008 3:42PM

PCGS will regret this decision.

TexasNationals · November 14, 2008 3:54PM

If they are going to do this, they may as well net grade them. I don't see the big deal NGC/NCS got to keep up with the competition, business 101. You really didn't see this coming.

Gription · November 14, 2008 4:04PM

so.. you'd rather get your coin back is a flip with a note, than in a slab huh... so you can send it to anacs, or just sell it raw. brilliant.

it's about time they did this, i knew they would eventually. it's smart.. and to not see that is.. dumb.

BECOKA · November 14, 2008 4:05PM

I actually like this decision, I collect varieties that are darn near impossible to get in problem free condition. I'd at least like to keep them all in one type of slab. Just chalk it up to my OCD.

BlindedByEgo · November 14, 2008 4:23PM

<< 
<>

<<Now coins can be holdered in Genuine holders regardless of the service level for which they are submitted. >> >>

The inference is that your preference may be a strong possibility. Let's wait and get more details.

In general, I am in favor of this move.

Mercury · November 14, 2008 4:42PM

Not a member. Did not get the email. This program sounds like it has great promise. Could actually make me become a member.

500Bay · November 14, 2008 4:52PM

I think it is a good move.

I do not think they should net grade on the label, but listing the reason why only a genuine holder would be good.

The only 'rip off' was that they got $100 a pop for these for the last few months.

robkool · November 14, 2008 5:11PM

FINALLY !!! A great concept... Can't wait to send in my Bust Dollars, and other key date coins.

Bochiman · November 14, 2008 5:19PM

Older coins, I can really see this, and while I am a big fan of moderns, I can just imagine a slew of modern "Genuine" slabs out there for things that have questionable color or a light scratch.

I'll admit, when I see that, I will actually laugh

Wolf359 · November 14, 2008 5:46PM

<< so.. you'd rather get your coin back is a flip with a note, than in a slab huh... so you can send it to anacs, or just sell it raw. brilliant.

it's about time they did this, i knew they would eventually. it's smart.. and to not see that is.. dumb. >>

Absolutely no slab, the genuine is worthless to me. I'd just crack it and try it again. The only reason I submit to PGCS is to get it into a no-problem holder. Yes, it is brilliant, thank you.

Gription · November 14, 2008 6:16PM

<< I'd just crack it and try it again. >>

wow

i'll just keep these thoughts to myself this time

Gription · November 14, 2008 6:17PM

<< I would prefer a checkbox - if body bag, do NOT place in Genuine slab, thank you. >>

i agree, the more options the better

CertifiedGoldCoins · November 15, 2008 12:09AM

Bad, bad. This will be an open door for crooks, if the defect is not obvious, (such as a filed rim) without the defect being identified. New collectors who get cheated, and find out about it later, will come to hate PCGS.

Doogy · November 15, 2008 12:33AM

<< 

<< Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT. >>

Well of course you do, because you haven't devoted 5 years to acquiring problem-free coins to place in PCGS only slabs. Hell, I'll bet you aren't even a collectors club
member. >>

at this point, they could care less about your search to "aquire problem free coins". they're only mission now is to stay afloat and to avoid bankruptcy. PCGS just had a good sized lay-off, their stock price is down 80% and i'm sure the share holders are bailing out. what options did they have left?

would you rather they just go under or get sold off to some faceless entity?

TorinoCobra71 · November 15, 2008 12:39AM

<< Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT. >>

Exactly my sentiments. You are PAYING for a service. Too see your coins returned in a Flip with "No Grade" always left a bad taste in my mouth. Now the "Genuine" coin will get slabbed no matter the problem. You can put them in you registry sets too! All the high end collectors are gonna whine "NOT FAIR!"

TorinoCobra71 · November 15, 2008 12:39AM

<< PCGS will regret this decision. >>

no they wont.

Broadstruck · November 15, 2008 1:07AM

So if CBH's will be Overton variety and Genuine... I'm now wondering if they'd do Mint Errors and designate the error type along with the Genuine?

Frankcoins · November 15, 2008 1:30AM

It was about a year ago that PCGS polled its dealers and then stated that the vast majority were opposed to "Genuine" slabs, as it would cheapen the brand. Then a few months later they introduced the $100 genuine slabs, which would limit the number of Genuine slabs to extreme rarities. Now this?

TwoSides2aCoin · November 15, 2008 2:00AM

I want my problems in a drink coaster

edit to add:

and please make it Lucite™ to deter crack outs.

Blackborder · November 15, 2008 2:11AM

It's least it not a 4 prong white insert genuine slab.

Swampboy · November 15, 2008 2:37AM

<< Bad, bad. This will be an open door for crooks, if the defect is not obvious, (such as a filed rim) without the defect being identified. New collectors who get cheated, and find out about it later, will come to hate PCGS.

>>

I doubt this. New collectors can also feel cheated using the BST board.
There are already plenty of people who hate PCGS if you read all the threads on this board and ATS and the doors remain open.

I was wondering about The Registry and these encapsulated 'Genuine' coins.
Does this mean that modestly funded collectors like myself could hope to complete a U.S Type set while
having all the fun a Registry Set provides i.e displaying the coins, messing around with the "What If" feature etc?
If there are not points for a genuine coin it couldn't or shouldn't hurt those with great collections.

I'm sure this concept will be offensive to many board members. Even as I sit here I'm imagining them winkling their noses and sniffing.

Halfhunter06 · November 15, 2008 3:13AM

wolf359,
I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that.

Wolf359 · November 15, 2008 4:03AM

<< 

<< Id rather pay the 30 bucks per coin and get a slab out of it, than get a body bag. I think this new program is GREAT. >>

Exactly my sentiments. You are PAYING for a service. Too see your coins returned in a Flip with "No Grade" always left a bad taste in my mouth. Now the "Genuine" coin will get slabbed no matter the problem. You can put them in you registry sets too! All the high end collectors are gonna whine "NOT FAIR!" >>

You aren't getting a grade with a Genuine slab either.

Wolf359 · November 15, 2008 4:04AM

<< wolf359,
I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that. >>

After the PCGS brand name crashes and burns to the ground, please remember what you said.

mkman123 · November 15, 2008 4:15AM

perhaps PCGS and NGC should unite.......call themselves PNGC

ziggy29 · November 15, 2008 5:07AM

For those who think this is a great idea, I have a question.

Let's pretend that PCGS launched a service called XYZ. If you submitted a problem coin to PCGS it could come back in an XYZ slab.

Furthermore, XYZ slabs:

Are submitted to PCGS
Use the exact same slab as PCGS
Are authenticated by the same PCGS experts
Come with the exact same authenticity guarantee as PCGS coins
Can be used in the PCGS registry set
Are only distinguishable from PCGS certified coins because the insert says "XYZ" instead of "PCGS"

In that case, is it THAT important to call it a PCGS slab? I guess my question is: What's more important: Having all the attributes of a PCGS-certified coin or specifically *calling* it a PCGS slab?

IMO, they did it right "across the street" by accepting problem coins but *also* separating them into a different brand name.

ziggy29 · November 15, 2008 5:07AM

oops -- double post, move along...

Tyler1924S · November 15, 2008 5:09AM

<< IMO, they did it right "across the street" by accepting problem coins but *also* separating them into a different brand name. >>

I completely agree.

CoinJunkie · November 15, 2008 5:17AM

<< 

<< IMO, they did it right "across the street" by accepting problem coins but *also* separating them into a different brand name. >>

I completely agree. >>

I also agree, but if this is a desperate grab for cash, they probably couldn't afford the
outlay or time required to launch a separate brand...

Halfhunter06 · November 15, 2008 5:21AM

wolf, think positive.

ziggy29 · November 15, 2008 6:14AM

<< I also agree, but if this is a desperate grab for cash, they probably couldn't afford the
outlay or time required to launch a separate brand... >>

Maybe, but if that's what it is, why would I feel confident about their ongoing ability to stand by their guarantees?

bidask · November 15, 2008 6:27AM

If I see a coin in a pcgs slab with genuine on it, my eyes will glaze over, if I see a raw coin I will consider and look at it.

I would rather have my coins raw than slabbed genuine.

Halfhunter06 · November 15, 2008 6:39AM

Guys,
If you like it, then use it. If you dont like it, then dont use it. Its that simple.

Swampboy · November 15, 2008 6:42AM

I was at a show a few months ago. While I sat at a dealer's table leisurely perusing his inventory there was a steady stream
of collectors asking to see the details ANACs Chain Cent at the adjacent dealer's table.

For better or worse I imagine this scene will play out a lot more with 'Genuine' PCGS coins hitting the bourse.

keoj · November 15, 2008 6:50AM

I think that this is a great idea from PCGS. Basically, this is a two tier system just like NGC/NCS except that its just one label. This is not that hard to figure out. All holders that have a grade have a grade. All holders that have Genuine marking have some problem (I understand that the problem will be identified on the holder). I like the idea of Genuine over the Net Grade since I always felt was quite arbitrary anyways. Imagine the hardship of net grading yourself......this makes complete sense to me. Like someone said, you don't have to use the service.

My collection is almost entirely in PCGS and relatively high grade.....I don't think that this devalues the collection.

keoj

thatboyaintright · November 15, 2008 6:55AM

I HATE this new policy !! The only reason novices like myself collect coins in PCGS slabs is because we know they are problem free coins. I need the expert eyes of a reputable TPG to confirm my belief that a coin I want is not file,cleaned, artificially toned, whizzed or whatever . Even I can usually tell a real coin from a "not genuine" coin for a series that I am interested in. I might as well just stop buying PCGS and take my chances on raw coins based on eye appeal.

This board has taught me that if a expensive coin is not in PCGS plastic and is for sale raw, then there is probably a darn good reason and I am likely to be at a significant disadvantage if I'm the prospective buyer.

As for me, I will never buy a coin in a "GENUINE" slab for a penny more than I would buy the same coin raw and seen in hand first.

keoj · November 15, 2008 6:59AM

This doesn't stop anyone from acquiring graded PCGS coins......I must be missing something.

keoj

thatboyaintright · November 15, 2008 7:04AM

Because novices are tempted to buy them just because they are genuine. There will be no way for us to know if we are getting the appropriate value for our money. It also has the effect of devaluing the graded coins. Its bad for the real collector who wants authenticity, quality and measurability.

Doogy · November 15, 2008 7:34AM

<< 

<< wolf359,
I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that. >>

After the PCGS brand name crashes and burns to the ground, please remember what you said. >>

Wolf,

I think you're being naive about this whole thing. PCGS is now in crisis mode, not "we're here for collectors!" mode right now. If they and their parent company don't shore up their losses by doing something, bankruptcy is a looming option. This move is probably seen as "something" that may generate cash.

i'm sure they could really care less about any hurt feelings from the faithful on this move.

keoj · November 15, 2008 7:40AM

How does this devalue graded coins? Not trying to incite anything, I'm trying to understand the perspective.

keoj

DennisH · November 15, 2008 7:40AM

I see both good and bad aspects to this move, but looking at the overall picture I'm disappointed to see PCGS go down this road.

mozin · November 15, 2008 8:18AM

I only buy encapsulated coins from PCGS/NGC/ANACS/ICG. There is no way I will ever buy a PCGS "genuine" coin. To me PCGS has diminished their reputation as the top grading service by holdering problem coins. At least NGC had the smarts to put problem coins in a holder with an entirely different label.

dbldie55 · November 15, 2008 8:26AM

I am still waiting for a legitimate reason to dislike this service. Have not heard one yet.

If you see a PCGS graded MS62 coin, do you pay MS65 money for it just because it is in a PCGS holder? I would hope not. Now if there is no grade on the holder do you pay MS65 money for it because it is in a PCGS holder? I guess some think people will and then somehow say this reflects poorly on PCGS. Still trying to figure that one out.

While I am waiting I will be assembling a group of coins to send in since they can now be holdered and the variety noted.

Swampboy · November 15, 2008 8:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< wolf359,
I have been a collectors club member for years. I have have spent a number of years submitting to PCGS and getting body bags just like you. I am an ANA member, President of one coinclub, VP of 2 more, GSNA Numismatist of the year 2007, and have been featured in the Numismatist in September. Ive had my grievances with PCGS about those body bags before, and now they are turning that around, and I appreciate that. >>

After the PCGS brand name crashes and burns to the ground, please remember what you said. >>

Wolf,

I think you're being naive about this whole thing. PCGS is now in crisis mode, not "we're here for collectors!" mode right now. If they and their parent company don't shore up their losses by doing something, bankruptcy is a looming option. This move is probably seen as "something" that may generate cash.

i'm sure they could really care less about any hurt feelings from the faithful on this move. >>

Puh-lease.
Would you persue your vendetta elsewhere.
Everyone has an opinion and I'm sure we all welcome critical viewpoints here on the U.S. Coin Forum but your criticism
of our hosts is as relentless as it is mean spirited.

Anyone who thinks I'm off base is welcome to search this forum for user Doogy before commenting.

PCGS Introduces Genuine Program

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