Quick Links:   Collectors Corner | PCGS | PSA | PSE | PSA/DNA | CU



Navigation:


FORUMS > U.S. COIN FORUM [ REFRESH ]
Thread Title: 1972 Ike DDO - Can't find it in the book
Created On Thursday September 25, 2008 6:48 PM


Windycity
Collector

Posts: 1797
Joined: Feb 2001

Thursday September 25, 2008 6:48 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

This DDO 1972 Ike is not shown in "The Authorative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars." Anyone familiar with this DDO?







-------------------------
 Collector of Proofs and Type Coins
Link to personal collection website http://themullenshack.com/PatsPics

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Windycity
Collector

Posts: 1797
Joined: Feb 2001

Thursday September 25, 2008 7:32 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

ttt... any Ike specials out there?

-------------------------
 Collector of Proofs and Type Coins
Link to personal collection website http://themullenshack.com/PatsPics

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



erroid
Veteran

Posts: 815
Joined: Dec 2007

Thursday September 25, 2008 7:44 PM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

Looks like Wiles DDO-2 or DDO-3; it's hard to tell between the two.

-------------------------
 John G Bradley II

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



amiller
Veteran

Posts: 663
Joined: Jun 2007

Friday September 26, 2008 5:41 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



Edited: Friday September 26, 2008 at 5:42 AM by amiller

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



amiller
Veteran

Posts: 663
Joined: Jun 2007

Friday September 26, 2008 5:45 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

Oops, let's try again...

If I remember correctly, the Ike Group has found through their research that there is 6x doubling (yes six doublings) on the 1972 master die, and that all resulting production dies have this doubling. Die wear and abrasion, strike pressure, etc is what caused all the other apparent DDO's.

The authors of the Authoritative Reference were not aware of this, and is why they identified so many different DDO varieties.

Rob, can you chime in?

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



ModernDollarNut
Veteran

Posts: 805
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday September 26, 2008 9:16 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Aaron! You have a winner there, a major 72 DDO on top of what I can see of the underlying master die doubling, exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping to stir up with my IKE GROUP Forum thread:

http://ikegroup.sslpowered.com/ikegroup.org/phpBB-3.0.2/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19&sid=f7a2a0f7aba6b13a34ddf4ce3efd61fd

Looks to be in LDS (?) which means the multiple doubling of the upper serif of the "1" won't show, nor will the tripling/quad show on IGWT.

I am not privy to Wexler's catalog of Ike DD's and even their second edition is way out of date so I don't know if Wexler has reported this DDO.

Judging from Wiles' decriptions of his 72 CB DDO's I don't think he has reported it either, at least not as of his Ike DD listings on CONECA's web site.

Needless to say, I'd love to have this Ike in hand to photograph! Rob

(Edited for typos)

-------------------------
 Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE

Edited: Friday September 26, 2008 at 1:18 PM by ModernDollarNut

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



ModernDollarNut
Veteran

Posts: 805
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday September 26, 2008 11:08 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Aaron, took the liberty of linking your PCGS thread to my IKE GROUP Forum topic, our proposal for a new Ike DD Catalog System (copy and paste the link provided above if you have time to do some serious reading).

Holy cow this is coool! Rob

-------------------------
 Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



tradedollarnut
been there - done that

Posts: 19009
Joined: Oct 2001

Friday September 26, 2008 11:12 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Uhm - call me blind but I just can't see any doubling in any of those pics.

-------------------------
 Trade Dollar Website

Gobrecht, Seated, Trade Dollar Q&A

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 15651
Joined: Apr 2004

Friday September 26, 2008 11:35 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



<< Uhm - call me blind but I just can't see any doubling in any of those pics. >>



OK..............you are blind!



The Eisenhower Series has a lot of LDS DDO's which take some getting used to but if your a TradeDollarNut, none of them will ever be good enough for you.

Personally, after looking at all the VAM Morgan and Peace Dollars that are out there, I've grown to appreciate each and everyone of these IKE's and am moving ahead with identifying as many as I can locate.

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Edited: Friday September 26, 2008 at 11:41 AM by 19Lyds

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



tradedollarnut
been there - done that

Posts: 19009
Joined: Oct 2001

Friday September 26, 2008 12:29 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Uhhh - okayyyyy. With a little imagination, perhaps.

My, that's even more impressive than the 1914/3 buffalo nickel.

-------------------------
 Trade Dollar Website

Gobrecht, Seated, Trade Dollar Q&A

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 15651
Joined: Apr 2004

Friday September 26, 2008 12:56 PM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



<< Uhhh - okayyyyy. With a little imagination, perhaps.

My, that's even more impressive than the 1914/3 buffalo nickel. >>



Why the negativity?



-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



tradedollarnut
been there - done that

Posts: 19009
Joined: Oct 2001

Friday September 26, 2008 1:00 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

No negativity - I honestly don't see a double die. Even at that magnification.

-------------------------
 Trade Dollar Website

Gobrecht, Seated, Trade Dollar Q&A

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



ModernDollarNut
Veteran

Posts: 805
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday September 26, 2008 1:25 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

TDN, this Ike is in late die state which makes the doubling pattern less crisp but LDS makes the strong doubling-with-notches all the more remarkable.

You indirectly make a good point, there are way too many cataloged minor hub-doubled Ikes, but this is not minor doubling.

Lee, thanks for your blow-up, well the pictures anyway, LOL

Rob

-------------------------
 Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE

Edited: Friday September 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM by ModernDollarNut

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



tradedollarnut
been there - done that

Posts: 19009
Joined: Oct 2001

Friday September 26, 2008 1:27 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

but this is not minor doubling.

Uhm.... ok.

-------------------------
 Trade Dollar Website

Gobrecht, Seated, Trade Dollar Q&A

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 15651
Joined: Apr 2004

Friday September 26, 2008 1:34 PM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

On most of the Eisenhower DDO and DDR coins, the doubling is only detectable along the serif splits.

There are many of these "minor" DDO's but they are still considered DDO's.

The series does have some Major DDO and DDR coins but far fewer than their minor counterparts.

Typical locations to look for serif splits are in the R of LIBERTY and in the Motto. For Rotated Hub Doubling, the splits will be somewhat consistent around the outer edges of the coin based on the pivot point for the rotation. These usualy account for the major DDO coins.

Far more typical in the series are the distorted hub doubling which again shows up in the motto but will have no consistency in spread at all. Some of these are really trivial.

For the 1972 coins, current speculation is that there was a master hub that was doubled thereby making all the dies produced from it DDO's. On fresh dies, the doubling is obvious but again depending upon the degree of spread. Since the copper nickel planchets were so hard, die deterioration occured rather quickly and as a result the designs along with any doubling would mush into the background.

On the coin in the OP, I can see some LDS splits on the base and the center point of the W in the motto. The 7 shows some activity but its not really clear from the photo. The R of LIBERTY shows a distinct separation on that lower right serif as pointed out earlier and the last photo I imagine is the upside down I of LIBERTY which shows a nice separation consistent with the R (the lower right serif).

Given the hardness of the planchets, the size of the planchets and the relatively mushiness of IKE strikes, you do have to look very closely to identify some of these coins but once you know what to look for, they become relatively easy to spot.

A lot easier to spot than some of the misplaced dates on some of the classic coinage.

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Edited: Friday September 26, 2008 at 2:06 PM by 19Lyds

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



ModernDollarNut
Veteran

Posts: 805
Joined: Nov 2005

Friday September 26, 2008 1:55 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Lee, nice summary! Rob

-------------------------
 Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 15651
Joined: Apr 2004

Friday October 24, 2008 6:31 PM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

I just re-read this thread and need to add one more comment.

When I started collecting IKE's, (and the IKE Group can back this up) I couldn't spot a doubled die to save my life! I was always bugging them, "Is this a Doubled Die?", "How about this one?". They'd always reply back, "Nope, Strike Doubling!". Eventually, I stumbled across some doubled dies but since they were not too dramatic, I continued my search. Withe each coin I looked at, I learned more and more about what to look for. I think my big break through came with the DDR Friendly Eagle Varieties. After that, it became relatively easy to spot these.

Now, nearly every Proof IKE I see has some form of doubling on it. For example, all the 1973-S Proofs have a doubled A and R on the reverse. Every one of them! Seeing this though, took me a long long time though.

My entire point being, if you do not "really" look at a lot of Eisenhower Dollars and I mean REALLY, REALLY LOOK, you'll never be able to spot one of these because you'll never know what should be there and what should NOT be there. You'll never become familiar with Late Die States, MID Die States or Early Die States. You'll never get familiar enough with the design to get past the "Oh thats pretty!" or the "Oh thats ugly" stage in looking at these coins.

Its as simple as that.

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom

FORUMS > U.S. COIN FORUM [ REFRESH ]
View Member Listing | Add To Member Listing

Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Terms of Membership

Collectors Universe, Inc., or any subsidiary or affiliate is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness or validity of any information contained in any messages.

FuseTalk 3.0 - Copyright © 1999-2002 e-Zone Media Inc. All rights reserved.