Roger Burdette just cost me a ton of money on a pattern nickel!
MrEureka
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Re-reading his history of this coin, I decided I had to pull this damned thing out of my inventory and put it away for myself. And I don't even collect US coins!
For those that don't have Roger's books, here's JK's catalog description:
1911 Lincoln "nickel" pattern electrotype trial. Copper-painted white metal, uniface. Judd C1911-2, Pollock-5155. Rarity-8. As Made.
69.5 grains, 21.5 mm. A lustrous metallic pale copper sheen is overlaid on the silver-gray metal beneath with some olive highlights. Very attractive, well made and sculptural in its relief. The tiny 1911 date is behind Lincoln's head, while LIBERTY, lacking from the first Indian designs, is along the left border. The fields are textured, and the profile of Lincoln is far more visually engrossing than that found on the Lincoln cent. This piece, while lotted after the Indian "cent" design in our sale and listed second in the Judd reference among the Fraser electrotrials, was actually conceived first.
The method of production and history of this piece is the same as Lot 857, though this trial apparently dates from the summer of 1911. Taxay notes that it was May 1911 when the Treasury Department began to consider redesigning the nickel, and within a month Mint Director George Roberts corresponded with Fraser about possible designs. Fraser's reply to Roberts, dated June 13, 1911, is cited by Taxay:
"I think your idea of the Lincoln head is a splendid one and I shall be very glad to make you some sketches as soon as possible and let you see them. I think they should be reduced to the actual size of the coin; otherwise we will not be really able to judge them, even in the sketch period. I will have that done here, where I can watch the process."
The present lot is the reduced "sketch" Fraser mentioned, like the previous piece an electrotype copy of the reduction from plaster made on the reducing lathe in his studio. It is apparently the only surviving trial from the non-starting Lincoln design, doomed both by the presence of a Lincoln cent and Fraser's own desire to try an Indian and Buffalo motif. While Pollock lists two varieties, we believe these may actually both be this specimen, simply photographed in indifferent quality during one of its two offerings. This Judd number is described by uspatterns.com as unique. Reunited with the Lot 857 from Fraser's lathe and, later, his estate, we would be delighted to see both enter the same advanced cabinet.
The weight published in the 1981 ANA sale was apparently a typo, as this is the same piece.
From the estate of James Earle Fraser; Bowers and Ruddy's 1981 ANA Sale, July 1981, Lot 2423; Bowers and Merena's sale of the Milton Cohen Collection, January 1985, Lot 506.
Thanks, RWB!
For those that don't have Roger's books, here's JK's catalog description:
1911 Lincoln "nickel" pattern electrotype trial. Copper-painted white metal, uniface. Judd C1911-2, Pollock-5155. Rarity-8. As Made.
69.5 grains, 21.5 mm. A lustrous metallic pale copper sheen is overlaid on the silver-gray metal beneath with some olive highlights. Very attractive, well made and sculptural in its relief. The tiny 1911 date is behind Lincoln's head, while LIBERTY, lacking from the first Indian designs, is along the left border. The fields are textured, and the profile of Lincoln is far more visually engrossing than that found on the Lincoln cent. This piece, while lotted after the Indian "cent" design in our sale and listed second in the Judd reference among the Fraser electrotrials, was actually conceived first.
The method of production and history of this piece is the same as Lot 857, though this trial apparently dates from the summer of 1911. Taxay notes that it was May 1911 when the Treasury Department began to consider redesigning the nickel, and within a month Mint Director George Roberts corresponded with Fraser about possible designs. Fraser's reply to Roberts, dated June 13, 1911, is cited by Taxay:
"I think your idea of the Lincoln head is a splendid one and I shall be very glad to make you some sketches as soon as possible and let you see them. I think they should be reduced to the actual size of the coin; otherwise we will not be really able to judge them, even in the sketch period. I will have that done here, where I can watch the process."
The present lot is the reduced "sketch" Fraser mentioned, like the previous piece an electrotype copy of the reduction from plaster made on the reducing lathe in his studio. It is apparently the only surviving trial from the non-starting Lincoln design, doomed both by the presence of a Lincoln cent and Fraser's own desire to try an Indian and Buffalo motif. While Pollock lists two varieties, we believe these may actually both be this specimen, simply photographed in indifferent quality during one of its two offerings. This Judd number is described by uspatterns.com as unique. Reunited with the Lot 857 from Fraser's lathe and, later, his estate, we would be delighted to see both enter the same advanced cabinet.
The weight published in the 1981 ANA sale was apparently a typo, as this is the same piece.
From the estate of James Earle Fraser; Bowers and Ruddy's 1981 ANA Sale, July 1981, Lot 2423; Bowers and Merena's sale of the Milton Cohen Collection, January 1985, Lot 506.
Thanks, RWB!
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Milton Cohen was one of the first serious numismatists I met, probably in 1973. I remember he was especially proud of his Fraser pieces. When B&M sold his coins in 1985, I bought most if not all of the Fraser pieces. Unfortunately, I resold them shortly thereafter, because that's what I usually do. But this time, this piece won't slip through my hands so easily.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I haven't been able to figure out how many really exist. But if I had to bet, I'd say it's unique.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Do you have Lot 857, too?
I don't, but another forum member does!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Thanks for sharing a wonderful pattern!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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<< <i>Andy: Don't get attached to your inventory.
I don't think Andy ever intended to sell it. Edited to add: Or, at the very least, not at any price less than he values it.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Where is your inventory posted??
I've had it something like 2 years and it has been very available the whole time. I've always liked it, but today I fell in love, and now the coin's going underground. (I can see and hear the buckets of hundred dollar bills - lost working capital and future income - rapidly circling the draining toilet bowl. Woe is me! And for those new to the game, this is coin dealer speak for "the price just went up".
Where is your inventory posted??
Nowhere. I just do coin shows, for now.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You guys see any similarity to this Darkside post by Blackhawk a couple weeks back? It just doesn't seem to have the right metal placement for a simple Hobo piece...
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=632615&STARTPAGE=1
--Severian the Lame
Andy’s newly-converted Lincoln electrotype might be even more interesting than the Indian head electros.
Fraser was encouraged by Mint Director Roberts to continue with a Lincoln head even after the Indian/Bison had been informally selected for the nickel. Few at the Mint liked Brenner’s Lincoln – Roberts said there was “…too much bust and not enough Lincoln.” Roberts’ hope was to get Congress to authorize replacement of the Brenner portrait with Fraser’s. But, knowing priorities, Roberts wanted to get the nickel settled and into production.
Enter (stage left, rear) Clarence Hobbs, Sr. who was trying to develop a counterfeit detection mechanism (non electrical) for transit/railway fare card machines. Hobbs and his partners had spent $50,000 (by their claim) and said they had a device that would accept real Liberty nickels, while rejecting imitations nearly 100% of the time. From August 1912 to early February 1913 Fraser struggled to make his design suitable for Hobbs’ counterfeit detector. In the end Secretary MacVeagh decided that mechanisms should adapt to coins, not coins to the mechanism. (He had also learned that much of Hobbs’ glowing self-promotion was BS and that a practical test in NYC was a failure.)
All of Hobbs’ machinations delayed the new nickel past the presidential election of 1912 and into 1913. Taft lost the election and Roberts’ lost the opportunity to change the cent. A somewhat smaller version of Fraser's Lincoln was proposed for the cent in 1952 and patterns were struck. Unfortunately, none were saved from destruction.
There are also a small number of plaster sketch models from which other – now lost – electros or wax casts might have been made. There’s one with a broad war bonnet headdress that rivals Bela Pratt’s on the $5. (Look in Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915 for photos, background and descriptions. I’m sure more info will eventually turn up, but this is all I could find for the book.)
Both the Indian and Lincoln electros, in my personal opinion, served the same purpose as mint-made pattern pieces. Also, MacVeagh specifically offered to pay for them and treated them much as if the mint had struck them for him.
(PS: No, I do not have any of these electros. I’ve seen some and examined them. To Fraser they were probably just intermediate samples and not worth much – they were never finished products.)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As Jay Parrino used to say; that is a killer pattern!
I submit that it is not merely an awesome pattern but a killer pattern.
I do not blame you one bit for playing hide and seek with that pattern.
Edited:
I see that Weiss beat me to it. He used the term "killer" here first. He is so right.
I understand from your book, and from other sources, that one of the major concessions was to reduce the relief on the nickel.
Since the adopted version already has just about the highest relief of any coin regularly issued by the U.S. I have to wonder what would have happened if it would have been minted in it's original version. What a spectacular coin THAT would have been!
Thank you for posting it and all the others that have made this read on of the best in along time.
i had no idea such a pattern even existed but i have seen pics of the
indian pattern.
nice piece to put away. could i ask for a rough estimate on what it
would auction for?
I'd love to see it on the 2009.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
Sometimes items “sit” until someone comes along and connects the dots between items and their history and use. This happens a lot in archeology and paleontology, and is more common than one might think in numismatics.
For example, there are two gold pattern eagles for the Saint-Gaudens design in the Smithsonian collection. They have been around since 1907. They have probably been looked at by hundreds of curators, collection managers, researchers, etc. – and no one knew they existed. They were “discovered” when new research uncovered documents (also from 1907) discussing the patterns and describing key diagnostic points; and, when a researcher bothered to examine the coins instead of just accepting what had already been written about them.
The recognition of how an item fits in the larger scheme of events changes both the item’s significance and its market value. Andy’s Lincoln electroshell was, forty years ago, little more than leftover studio debris – junk. Now, we know more about how and why it was created and its role in the collaboration between Jim Fraser and the US Mint from 1911-1913.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I'm sitting on a train heading to Heathrow and just thought I'd say "Hi". Amazing... >>
That's nothing. We're all in Longacre's hotel room in Bangkok and the in-room butler is typing this for us right now.
However, I'm sort of confused why a lincoln prototype would be produced 2 years after the lincoln cents started to be produced. Did Fraser and Taxay think Congress would allow Lincolns portrait on two circulating coins at the same time? It just seems weird to me that they would try to produce two of the major circulation coins with the same person on it at the same time. Apparently someone was a big fan of Lincoln at this time, he got the cent in 1909, this prototype in 1911, and was put on the $5 bill in 1914.
Mark
Thanks for sharing!
I specialize in Errors, Minting, Counterfeit Detection & Grading.
Computer-aided grading, counterfeit detection, recognition and imaging.
Mark,
From comments by mint director Frank Leach, treasury secretary MacVeagh and others (including contemporary artists), the Brenner Lincoln was not viewed very favorably. It apparently was felt it was simply a reduced medal, and that Lincoln’s head was too small and the portrait lacked character and expression. Brenner’s portrait was not very original and there are half a dozen similar medallic portraits by artists of equal or greater talent. Public opinion of the Lincoln cent was mixed, also, and I doubt there would have been too much difficulty in replacing it with Fraser’s version if the whole Hobbs nonsense had not come up, and if politics had been a little different.
The sentiment of director Ross in 1952 was similar.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
GREAT THREAD. Rob
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