New 1817/4 Bust Half Discovered

astrorat · December 9, 2007 1:34AM

For all you Bust half enthusiasts...

Coin World reported in its recent issue that ICG has certified the ninth known 1817/4 Bust half dollar. A Colorado Springs woman had received it as part of an inheritance and spent the prior eight years purchasing reference books to find other examples and values (she believed the coin was valuable). She took it to a local Colorado Springs dealer and was offered $100 for her portion of coins from the inheritance, including the 1817/4. She passed (good for her!). She then took it to the ANA and they recommended ICG since she did not want to mail it out to another company. ICG certified it despite damage to the obverse. The coin's value is in the $60,000 plus range.

I would love to find out which of our local dealers either tried to rip her or made the attribution error (mistaking the coin as the "punctuated date" variety...and still offering a low price for the lot).

It would have been fun to still be on staff at the ANA when it walked in the door! That would have been some great news to share with the owner! So often we had to dash the hopes of the presenter, it would have been great to give such wonderful news!

Lane

MrEureka · December 9, 2007 1:39AM

Amazing! This is the second one of these to pop up out of nowhere in the past few years!

Here's a link to a story about the other piece recently discovered.

ricko · December 9, 2007 1:43AM

Wow... the type of find we all dream of... I am happy the owner was not ripped... Cheers, RickO

123cents · December 9, 2007 1:48AM

It's exciting to hear of such a great find.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · December 9, 2007 1:52AM

Neat find!

JRocco · December 9, 2007 1:54AM

There is hope.....

pcgs69 · December 9, 2007 2:26AM

Anyone else notice that both front page stories were about some sort of discovery coin where the "finder" was offered common coin money? How wide-spread are ripoff dealers? Seems like that's all I ever hear about.

CharlotteDude · December 9, 2007 2:41AM

Yeah, I'd like to know which dealer offered her $28 for that coin. I visit the Springs often (wife's grew up/family is there)... I'd make it a point to give 'em a ration about that faux paus.... very similar situation with the guy who was offered $800 ($200 each) for FOUR MS 1852-C Half Eagles... sad indeed.

C'dude

STONE · December 9, 2007 2:46AM

Well, that's awesome for the lady and AWEFUL for the dealer.

Here are the 8 dealers listed in Yellow Book online in the Colo. Springs area:

Apemx Coin
Cents of the past
Colorado Coin Gallery
Colorado Precious Metals and Coins
Colorado Springs Stamps Coin and Gifts
Hallenbeck's Coin Gallery
Leasures Treasures
Saks Coins and Stamps

LanLord · December 9, 2007 2:52AM

Someone needs to ID that Colorado Springs dealer that was trying to make a steal.

I'm happy for the lady and that she had the good sense not to get ripped off!

STONE · December 9, 2007 3:03AM

I've only been to Hallenbecks and they are good people. I wouldn't think it would be them, but then again they are in the vicnity of the ANA which only makes me question it.

Conspiracy

But I'm sure Hallenbecks is safe

jdimmick · December 9, 2007 3:05AM

I pretty sure it wasnt Hallenbecks, although I have not been there myself I think they are quite reputable from others who have,''

Jim

astrorat · December 9, 2007 4:36AM

Hallenbeck's has a very good reputation and many people make the trek between them and the ANA because of their proximity (although the ANA officially provides a list to visitors of all ANA member dealers in the Colorado Springs area when they ask about which dealer they should visit). I would be quite surprised if it was Hallenbeck's.

Now, trying to maintain my outlook as the eternal optimist...perhaps the dealer does not bother with Overton varieties (as many don't!) and offered $28 for a deeply scratched, low-grade circulated 1817. Retail for a G-4 is in the $70 range and for an AG-3 it's in the $40 range. So, the offer of $28 may have been out of ignorance for a cull early half (and there are some local dealers who have little numismatic knowledge outside of what is on the slab!).

Lane

Bochiman · December 9, 2007 4:39AM

Just once, I would like to see a nice, factual, story that went something like:

"Little old lady went to XXXX Coin Shoppe to sell her inheritance. While they offered her $100 for the 20 ounces of silver, rare coins, and 5 ounces of gold, she knew she had something better and went elsewhere...."

Something along those lines...where it is factual but calls out the amount offered and the place.....

astrorat · December 9, 2007 4:40AM

<< I pretty sure it wasnt Hallenbecks, although I have not been there myself I think they are quite reputable from others who have,''

Jim >>

If you are in the Springs, Hallenbeck's is worth the visit. They are a full-service, friendly shop with a very nice, polite, and professional staff. They have a wide variety of coins and pay fair prices if you are selling. And no, I have no financial interest in their shop...

Lane

guitarwes · December 11, 2007 12:59AM

I'm moving to Colorado......Everything is found there!

Baley · December 11, 2007 1:32AM

I think it's really neat that cool and rare old varieties are still being found in the 21st century

7Jaguars · December 11, 2007 4:20AM

I know the "old dog" classics collectors love this coin, but I still can not fathom why an overdate scarce that it may be can command such tremendous prices. Supply and demand, but the demand side of the equation may change substantially with the passage of time and interests; supply has already been increased by some 25%. I would think eventually somebody will be holding the bag on these bits...

1794half1839 · December 11, 2007 4:31AM

Every member of the Bust Half Nut Club wants one. There are more than 9 members of the BNHC. Besides them, there are Red Book variety collectors. I do not think that there will be enough supply to ease the demand anytime soon.

123cents · December 11, 2007 4:50AM

<< I know the "old dog" classics collectors love this coin, but I still can not fathom why an overdate scarce that it may be can command such tremendous prices. Supply and demand, but the demand side of the equation may change substantially with the passage of time and interests; supply has already been increased by some 25%. I would think eventually somebody will be holding the bag on these bits... >>

I would love holding the bag on one of these coins!

tydye · December 11, 2007 5:00AM

<< I would love holding the bag on one of these coins! >>

Me too!!!

phillymatt · December 11, 2007 5:03AM

<< Someone needs to ID that Colorado Springs dealer that was trying to make a steal. >>

I agree. If he was ID'd that dealers offer of $100.00 would come back 100 fold plus to haunt him as a cheat and hopefully put him out of business. I believe that would be fair because he has no doubt done this in the past and in my eyes attempted to commit a crime. Especially considering the worth of the coin, I think it would have been grand larceny, but many coin dealers and other sadly jump at the oppurtunity to rob someone if given the chance.

Destroying his reputation would be a fair tradeoff

STONE · December 11, 2007 5:06AM

This overdate is just like the Strawberry Leaf Large Cent. There's a huge demand, but quantity is extremely small something like 3 known.

Therefore if these quasi-mythical coins come to the market, then prices will continue to be strong and hype for the series will begin to grow.

seanq · December 11, 2007 6:31AM

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, what are the chances the dealer who offered the $100 didn't recognize the coin as the overdate? Or thought it was a counterfeit. I mean, that had to be about the last thing he'd expect to see walk into his shop. To paraphrase some sage advice I received years ago, don't automatically attribute to malice what can just as easily be explained by stupidity.

Sean Reynolds

123cents · December 11, 2007 6:42AM

<< Playing devil's advocate for a moment, what are the chances the dealer who offered the $100 didn't recognize the coin as the overdate? Or thought it was a counterfeit. I mean, that had to be about the last thing he'd expect to see walk into his shop. To paraphrase some sage advice I received years ago, don't automatically attribute to malice what can just as easily be explained by stupidity.

Sean Reynolds >>

A dealer is not going to offer $100.00 for a 1817 CBH in VG condition with a big scratch on the obverse.

Nysoto · December 11, 2007 6:46AM

<< laying devil's advocate for a moment, what are the chances the dealer who offered the $100 didn't recognize the coin as the overdate? Or thought it was a counterfeit. I mean, that had to be about the last thing he'd expect to see walk into his shop. To paraphrase some sage advice I received years ago, don't automatically attribute to malice what can just as easily be explained by stupidity. >>

This may have happened. Many dealers will take a cursory look at bust halves, pay for type (or less!), and worry about attribution after the deal is done, as attribution can take some time. Granted, the 1817/4 should be obvious, but could be overlooked. A dealer once correctly attributed an 1806 knobbed six no stem (7 known), then sold it without a premium! Its a 50K coin.

If the dealer did know, he would have made many higher offers.

Neat story, I wonder how many more are out there?

PrivateCoinCollector · December 11, 2007 6:58AM

I do not believe any dealer knew what it was and malisously offered her $100. if you knew it was worth $60,000, would you give up the opportunity to pay her more than she expects and make say $10,000? Why take a chance of losing it? If this is true this person will not stay a dealer for long.

seanq · December 11, 2007 7:11AM

<< 

<< Playing devil's advocate for a moment, what are the chances the dealer who offered the $100 didn't recognize the coin as the overdate? Or thought it was a counterfeit. I mean, that had to be about the last thing he'd expect to see walk into his shop. To paraphrase some sage advice I received years ago, don't automatically attribute to malice what can just as easily be explained by stupidity.

Sean Reynolds >>

A dealer is not going to offer $100.00 for a 1817 CBH in VG condition with a big scratch on the obverse. >>

Here's the quote from the OP: She took it to a local Colorado Springs dealer and was offered $100 for her portion of coins from the inheritance, including the 1817/4.

So he offered $100 for a group of coins, which included a damaged VG 1817 Bust half. I could totally see someone not giving it a second look... I mean, after all, what are the odds..... except this time, he would have hit the lottery, even with a fair offer.

Sean Reynolds

7Jaguars · December 11, 2007 7:19AM

I understand the members of the bust nut half club would like one, but probably not at 60k plus which was my point.

mozin · December 11, 2007 2:19PM

If the dealer knew what he had, there is no way that lady would be walking out the door without a much higher offer. Sounds like a coin dealer that did not know enough.

thebeav · December 30, 2007 5:15AM

<< Playing devil's advocate for a moment, what are the chances the dealer who offered the $100 didn't recognize the coin as the overdate? Or thought it was a counterfeit. I mean, that had to be about the last thing he'd expect to see walk into his shop. To paraphrase some sage advice I received years ago, don't automatically attribute to malice what can just as easily be explained by stupidity.

Sean Reynolds >>

Exactly Sean....I said it across the street and I'll say it here....
I defy you to have found a shop or establishment that would have recognized that gouged-up cull for the scarce and barely discernable overdate that it is.
Spare me the "dealers are scum" speech....

1794half1839 · March 21, 2008 11:32AM

Why hasn't this coin come up for auction yet???

roadrunner · March 21, 2008 1:10PM

do not believe any dealer knew what it was and malisously offered her $100. if you knew it was worth $60,000, would you give up the opportunity to pay her more than she expects and make say $10,000? Why take a chance of losing it? If this is true this person will not stay a dealer for long.

This precise scenario happened at the GFox coin counter in Hartford, CT back in 1988 or so. The local guy who set up shop in that store had the deal of a lifetime walk in off the street. An elderly lady was shopping her deceased husband's coins. The coin guy must have been an idiot because he offered her $10,000 take it or leave it.
Out walked a great collection and on to another store in Newington, CT owned by dealer Harold Kritzman. The collection was then purchased for $50,000 as the story goes. Unfortunately the collection was worth many multiples of that. It consisted of rolls of gem Bu 10-s and 11-s Lincoln sets, proof sets from the mid-19th century, and just tons of neat stuff. The final value was hinted to be at $250-$500K or more once it was all piece-mealed out.

When the moron at the GFox coin counter was asked why he let it go for only $10K he said, "if I couldn't get it at my price, I didn't want it." Words of wisdom to live by.

roadrunner

New 1817/4 Bust Half Discovered

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