Careful listing coins on ebay: I'm turning you all in

KingOfCoins · June 14, 2007 8:58AM

Ebay delisted my auction for a "misleading title."

I go to live help, and they tell me I'm not allowed to state a numerical grade.

I tell them that 99% of all coin auctions state a numerical grade.

They tell me to write the item numbers down of auctions similar to mine, and report them.....

Looks like I'm turning you all in for a misleading title.

ziggy29 · June 14, 2007 9:00AM

<< I go to live help, and they tell me I'm not allowed to state a numerical grade. >>

Why? Because it's just an opinion? Does that apply to a TPG's opinion, too?

Frankly, I'm not sure this person knows what they are talking about.

OPA · June 14, 2007 9:07AM

<< Ebay delisted my auction for a "misleading title."

I go to live help, and they tell me I'm not allowed to state a numerical grade.

I tell them that 99% of all coin auctions state a numerical grade.

They tell me to write the item numbers down of auctions similar to mine, and report them.....

Looks like I'm turning you all in for a misleading title. >>

No such luck .. good buddy ... I don't sell raw coins .. Only PCGS graded ones...

Russ · June 14, 2007 9:15AM

<< I go to live help, and they tell me I'm not allowed to state a numerical grade. >>

What's the rest of the story?

Russ, NCNE

KingOfCoins · June 14, 2007 9:16AM

They didn't mention anything about slabs or otherwise.

They just said numerical grades are not allowed in the title.

Coxe · June 14, 2007 9:23AM

That is nonsense. Grading is not the exclusive right of TPGs, nor would any of them claim it is. However, if you do grade a coin, justify it. I find it either incorrect or ignorant if eBay does have such a policy. Yes, it is abused for raw coins on eBya (and elsewhere), but not always. The most serious abuse is from those pseudo-TPG sellers. Does eBay regard anything put in a Coin World holder with a tag a genuinely TPG certified coin?

As for my own listings, if it is raw I will grade it. I don't use numbers but standard grade names (VF, Ch BU, ...). People might disagree up or down; that's the nature of the beast and determines how bidding progresses. If eBay thinks they are going to protect the fools and their money, they will have a lot further to go to accomplish anything meaningful and will derail the good folks in doing so. Let the idiots go broke on their own folly.

Doogy · June 14, 2007 9:24AM

tell 'em your the King of Coins, how can they say 'no' to you!?

Coxe · June 14, 2007 9:40AM

<< tell 'em your the King of Coins, how can they say 'no' to you!? >>

Yeah. Why are they treating you like you are just some Man of Coins?

MrBluster · June 14, 2007 9:43AM

Maybe they will allow Roman Numerals such as MS LXV

JeremyDie1 · June 14, 2007 9:43AM

BlindedByEgo · June 14, 2007 9:44AM

<< 

<< tell 'em your the King of Coins, how can they say 'no' to you!? >>

Yeah. Why are they treating you like you are just some Man of Coins? >>

Are you moc-ing him?

storm888 · June 14, 2007 9:49AM

EBAY has no such policy in regard to slabbed coins.

Russ · June 14, 2007 9:52AM

<< EBAY has no such policy in regard to slabbed coins. >>

I doubt they even have this policy with raw coins. Either there's more to this story, or he encountered an idiot.

Russ, NCNE

PocketEasyTreasures · June 14, 2007 9:54AM

I think it's about time, because more sellers use this as a ploy to get more hits and hype for their auctions than it deserves. I'm sure you don't do this, but this happens too much.

Bochiman · June 14, 2007 9:58AM

Were the coins raw or graded?

If raw, I agree with them. If graded, was the TPGS listed in the title as well? If so, I think they were wrong.

Russ · June 14, 2007 10:01AM

You guys are kidding, right? You seriously think a seller should not be allowed to grade his raw coins?

Russ, NCNE

Cladiator · June 14, 2007 10:11AM

<< 

<< EBAY has no such policy in regard to slabbed coins. >>

I doubt they even have this policy with raw coins. Either there's more to this story, or he encountered an idiot.

Russ, NCNE >>

ziggy29 · June 14, 2007 10:19AM

<< If raw, I agree with them. If graded, was the TPGS listed in the title as well? If so, I think they were wrong. >>

Why? Why is a TPG's opinion automatically more valid? What if Jim Halperin were selling raw coins here?

Frankly, this is the kind of stuff that causes the TPGs to wield too much power and leverage over the hobby.

Connecticoin · June 14, 2007 10:25AM

As others suspect, I think there is more to the story. Probably other aspects of the listing may have come into play as well. It would be interesting to see what the listing said.

mrpotatoheadd · June 14, 2007 10:25AM

I just checked my ANA grading guide- they use numerical grading, with this comment:

The basic ANA Grading Standards are built on the same numbers employed by [Dr. William H.] Sheldon in 1949, but with added intermediate steps.

I don't see anything in there about a requirement that the coins be slabbed.

PocketEasyTreasures · June 14, 2007 10:35AM

I always list a coin with my opinion grade in the listing, not the title. I offer a 100% return if the coin is not as described. I don't see anything wrong with a seller grading their coins as long as they follow certain rules. If you attribute a coin with a grade, any marks should be noted and described, and the picture does not mask or hide any marks with low light or light reflections, or post a poor picture to make the coin vague.

I don't think serious sellers care what you grade the coin because they will grade it for themselves and bid accordingly. So if your coin is the grade you think it is then it is unnecessary to assign a grade. Otherwise, you could be misinforming an un-knowledgeable buyer.

Why would you grade a raw coin unless you generalize anyway? For instance, AU, VF, EF, etc. the numbers can get real tricky and an error can be made by the best of us.

ChuckC · June 14, 2007 10:37AM

Is this why we find somany products from "homemade" coin grading companies on ebay?

PocketEasyTreasures · June 14, 2007 10:41AM

Partly, I think you will see ebay banning some of these grading companies in the future.

ksteelheader · June 14, 2007 10:54AM

<< Partly, I think you will see ebay banning some of these grading companies in the future. >>

Yeah, right.

longtimecollector · June 14, 2007 12:55PM

And Ebay didn'y say squat about your "raw" / "PCGS QUALITY" $175,000 half dollar ?????? Go figure

MORGANHUNTER2 · June 14, 2007 1:03PM

Unfortunately someone back a few weeks ago said the same thing- Ebay is looking at the auction titles on raw cooins- and if you are hyping the crap out of the item- they are pulling it- as for the slabbers from another world- well it is Ebay and for the most part Ebay believes they are just a venue...still.

Maybe he said smoething wrong in the auction or FAILED to hit the Authenticity button!

PocketEasyTreasures · June 14, 2007 1:16PM

I have not listed any coin that had a PCGS quality of $175,000. I don't do business this way. Some people just like to stir the post and this is why the problems on ebay cannot be fixed.

BlackBeard · June 14, 2007 1:38PM

It's nice to see that ebay is pursuing the important items and not wasting time closing down the Chinese counterfeits or the other thiefs.

SpecialK · June 14, 2007 2:29PM

I bet if you list a NGC graded coin there will be no prob since they are in a coop agreement, right?

I'm not worried if they delist my coins, I will not pay their stupid fees, that is all.

Cheers

droopyd · June 14, 2007 2:49PM

If I recall correctly, you are technically no longer allowed to use numerical grading designations for raw coins. But it's OK if it's "certified," regardless by whom.

I think I can understand why they might think they need to do this, but of course it makes no sense to anyone who has an ounce of knowledge about numismatics (as opposed to people who are merely buying shiny trinkets at what they perceive to be a bargain -- "Lookee here, Maw, this guys sellin' a $150K coin for only $3000 - I'm gonna buy it and make me some money!").

Ultimately -- because we are dealing with "just-a-venue" -- someone still has to report an auction in order for it to get it pulled.

Boom · June 14, 2007 3:23PM

I've never encountered anything like this in the 4 years I've been a seller on eBay. If I have Uncirculated raw coins I will call them AU, AU/BU "sliders", BU, CH BU, Very CH BU, Gem BU and Gem BU+, but as for #s I've always reserved that subconsciously for the certified coins.

Give us some links or examples of titles you used that got the axe.

In a way it's a good idea because although there is the age old argument that "Grading is subjective" the vast majority of sellers that hawk raw coins couldn't grade a coin if they HAD to.

Like Russ stated, I too think there must be more to this than we are being told.

Show me!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · June 14, 2007 3:30PM

simply ridiculous. Maybe some confusion going on down at eBay?

Myqqy · June 14, 2007 3:52PM

I feel the impulse coming on to list some coins on ebay, and grade the damn things myself!

Boom · June 14, 2007 3:57PM

Go for it.

Boom · June 14, 2007 4:28PM

Past 60 days - 94 listings, the vast majority being PCGS graded coins with but a handful from ATS and about that same amount being Raw.

Only once did I offer a numerical value to a Raw Peace Dollar and it sold accordingly.

No big deal here.

garsmith · June 14, 2007 5:07PM

<<Careful listing coins on ebay: I'm turning you all in>>

Texast · June 14, 2007 5:11PM

Maybe it is meant to get rid of the scum that use titles like "Trends $6500 @ MS66" type of crap...

PocketEasyTreasures · June 14, 2007 10:18PM

Exactly, if the coin is the grade you think it is, it will sell accordingly. Too many are hyping their listings using these numerical key words.

OPA · June 14, 2007 11:59PM

<< Maybe it is meant to get rid of the scum that use titles like "Trends $6500 @ MS66" type of crap... >>

My thoughts exactly...

Russ · June 15, 2007 2:22AM

<< If I recall correctly, you are technically no longer allowed to use numerical grading designations for raw coins. >>

If this is true, it's a moronic move. No matter how good an image is, it will not completely tell the story of a coin's grade. For example, images of proof coins do NOT show hairlines, and hairlines are a huge component of the grade. Thus, I always assign a numeric grade when I sell a raw proof coin.

Or, does eBay just expect bidders to just buy a pig in a poke?

Russ, NCNE

JoeLewis · June 15, 2007 2:29AM

At the very least, grading in titles helps narrow a search. For example, If I am looking for a mint state Morgan dollar, then I would like the search engine to be able to eliminate any coin with G, VG, F, VF, EF, and AU from the title. Now, some coins that say MS64 are not really mint state, but at least I'm not having to look through thousands upon thousand of coins that I know I'm not interested in.

Why would they choose to eliminate this all-important title descriptor?

cohocorp · June 15, 2007 2:39AM

its great how they are concerned with people opinions on numerical grades instead of being concerned about all the counterfeit items on ebay.

JoeLewis · June 15, 2007 2:52AM

<< its great how they are concerned with people opinions on numerical grades instead of being concerned about all the counterfeit items on ebay. >>

I know, talk about mixed up priorities!

seatedcollector · June 15, 2007 3:03AM

ebay sellers may not realize, but its not only the uneducated buyer that sees thier high dollar "MS64" quality coins (in the cardboard 2x2's) the buyers that are angered by the deception see it as well, and they are usually the ones that complain, personally, i am in the minority, i see no reason to report someones listing because they either cannot grade or are possibly blatantly overgrading, ebay buyers arent as dumb as some sellers like to believe. as for the counterfeit coins, im a firm believer in knowing a little about what you are buying, ultimately, it is the buyer's responsibility to educate himself to avoid making a bad purchasing decision

andyisbak · June 15, 2007 3:42AM

i had my listing taken down a couple weeks ago...here is the email i received from ebay.

* Sellers agree not to knowingly participate in any way in the
advertisement, sale or trade of any numismatic material using any
deceptive practices including, but not limited to, false or misleading
claims of sales scarcity, value, condition or investment potential.

- On raw or uncertified coins, sellers cannot state a numeric grade in
the title but can use a rough grade estimate and are allowed to include <<<<=================
a numeric grade opinion in the description.

- On raw or uncertified coins, sellers cannot include grading company
names or price guide names in the title or description of a listing.

- On raw or uncertified coins, sellers cannot state an estimate or
opinion of value in either the title or description.

If you are listing an item which HAS been professionally graded you can
use such things in the title and description but you are required to
provide an image showing the coin in the authentication "slab".

Please see the following page for eBay's policies regarding the sale of
coins:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html

Boom · June 15, 2007 10:21AM

Personally. I believe this is a crock because of THIS RIGHT HERE!

There HAS to be more to this than is being revealed because here is Proof Positive to the CONTRARY!

mrearlygold · June 15, 2007 10:25AM

Nobody likes a rat

Boom · June 15, 2007 10:27AM

Rat's ass. If we're gonna talk about it & fan flames then let's get it straight and to the bottom of it all.

Russ · June 15, 2007 10:29AM

<< If you are listing an item which HAS been professionally graded you can
use such things in the title and description but you are required to
provide an image showing the coin in the authentication "slab". >>

Translation:

Garbage slabbers feel free to keep hawking your crap.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · June 15, 2007 10:31AM

<< Personally. I believe this is a crock because of THIS RIGHT HERE! >>

It's okay for him since he's a

.

Russ, NCNE

mrpotatoheadd · June 15, 2007 10:40AM

<< Please see the following page for eBay's policies regarding the sale of coins:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html >>

eBay is run by idiots.

There's nothing at that link which says you cannot use numerical grading descriptions for raw coins. There is however, this comment (among others):

eBay does not permit the sale of coins or paper money that are fraudulent or improperly described.

Guidelines for coins and paper money sellers:

-Read the Code of Conduct for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay.
-Include all relevant information that is known about the coins or paper money; for example their origin, date of issue, and condition.

Now, if you read the "Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay, you'll see that...

eBay has worked with the American Numismatic Association (ANA) to help improve overall trading safety within the Coins category on eBay. Together with the ANA, we developed a Code of Conduct for selling numismatic material on eBay. This has been drawn from the ANA Member Code of Ethics, ANA Dealer Code of Ethics, and specific terms of sale which are considered "general trade practice" within the organized numismatic community.

When you consider that the ANA publishes "The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States Coins" (which does not require that coins be slabbed in order to use their grading system), I'd think it would be fairly obvious to anybody with an iq above the speed limit on interstate highways that the use of numerical grading of raw coins is clearly within the range of guidelines that the ANA would be inclined to support.

Careful listing coins on ebay: I'm turning you all in

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