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POLL: On Net Grading
KurtHorn
Posts: 1,382 ✭
Much has been said about this subject since ANACS just stopped being the only company that market graded problem coins. The market grading of problem coins, otherwise known as Net Grading, is the same evaluation as PCGS does for non-problem coins. They assign a market value based upon the grade assigned by a third party.
Up until recently ANACS was the only third party grading service that would assign a market grade for a coin with problems like cleaning, rim damage, or any variety of other problems. They would assign a grade of the remaining details visible on the coin and then give their opinion (which is all that any grading service does when they slab a coin) of what the market value or in other words Net Grade is.
Now that there is no service that market grades problem coins - my question is this... are uneducated coin buyers going to get ripped off buying coins that have problems by paying details grade money for coins with problems?
Up until recently ANACS was the only third party grading service that would assign a market grade for a coin with problems like cleaning, rim damage, or any variety of other problems. They would assign a grade of the remaining details visible on the coin and then give their opinion (which is all that any grading service does when they slab a coin) of what the market value or in other words Net Grade is.
Now that there is no service that market grades problem coins - my question is this... are uneducated coin buyers going to get ripped off buying coins that have problems by paying details grade money for coins with problems?
"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
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uneducated buyers are more likely to be ripped off PERIOD in this hobby regardless of holder, slab, company, etc....
<< <i>uneducated buyers are more likely to be ripped off PERIOD in this hobby regardless of holder, slab, company, etc.... >>
But less so now than in my youth, due to the advent of Third Party Grading.
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<< <i>
<< <i>uneducated buyers are more likely to be ripped off PERIOD in this hobby regardless of holder, slab, company, etc.... >>
But less so now than in my youth, due to the advent of Third Party Grading. >>
Not in any way, shape, or form...they are now MORE likely to be ripped off due to the advent of Third Party Grading simply because so many people in the hobby think that because a lable says a certain grade the coin must BE that certain grade when the chances are very good that it isn't even close.
I agree with goose and this is a very manipulated question.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>Stop the presses, I agree with Cameron!
WOW! LOL
Cameron Kiefer
I have no RAW coins to be graded that have "problems" so my statement is more in the interest of the collecting community and for honest dealers (of which there are many).
The service which ANACS has rendered until now is precious because the return of coins in "body bags" from PCGS or from NGC will not keep those problem coins off the market.
While it is nice to know that a coin in a PCGS or NGC holder is without "grave" faults and there is, after all, the NCS service for "cleaned", "polished", etc. coins, I think that indicating a "Net Grade" helps establish where a coin lies with respect to market values.
An NCS coin is pretty much up in the air value wise. You know it is genuine but nothing more so your guess is as good as mine.
An 1883-S Uncirculated Details Morgan Dollar, Net AU55 points people in a specific direction value wise.
Maybe the new owners (or their accountants/auditors) identified Net Grading as a Contingent Liability which they would rather avoid.
Collecting since the 1980's
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<< <i>I think it is a real shame that ANACS will no longer be grading problem coins. >>
They are going to still grade problem coins.
AU details net XF-45 cleaned will be AU details cleaned.
Cameron Kiefer
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it is a real shame that ANACS will no longer be grading problem coins. >>
They are going to still grade problem coins.
AU details net XF-45 cleaned will be AU details cleaned.
Cameron Kiefer >>
Yes but the problem is they dont have adjectives for HOW CLEAN. (Harshly cleaned, lightly cleaned etc) this would also effect the value.
<< <i>Yes but the problem is they dont have adjectives for HOW CLEAN. (Harshly cleaned, lightly cleaned etc) this would also effect the value. >>
Since mostly I just buy and sell, not collect, the impact will be positive since I believe that coins graded in this fashion will net me a greater profit. I do not think this is good for our industry or our future however. I'm afraid the end result will be the fleecing of the collector. Something that happens all to frequently already. I remember as a kid buying my 1909-S Lincoln Cent from a dealer. I told him - there are rim dings on this coin I shouldn't have to pay full VF money for it. I remember him saying something like: they're very small and don't affect the grade. HAH! Now we'll have multiple grading services putting coins like that in holders saying: VF DETAILS RIM DAMAGE. And, we'll have dealers telling newbies: that doesn't really affect the grade... see, it's right there on the slab, it's a VF.
PCGS was founded on the idea of market grading. I have sent an email to David Hall encouraging him to consider some form of market grading problem coins at PCGS...
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<< <i>PCGS was founded on the idea of market grading. I have sent an email to David Hall encouraging him to consider some form of market grading problem coins at PCGS...
>>
He will say no:
March 2003
February 2004
August 2005
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>Goose and Cameron, I just tried to narrow down the one fear that I have of a marketplace flooded with problem coins (since ANACS deals with many problem coins) that have been assigned no market grade.
Since mostly I just buy and sell, not collect, the impact will be positive since I believe that coins graded in this fashion will net me a greater profit. I do not think this is good for our industry or our future however. I'm afraid the end result will be the fleecing of the collector. Something that happens all to frequently already. I remember as a kid buying my 1909-S Lincoln Cent from a dealer. I told him - there are rim dings on this coin I shouldn't have to pay full VF money for it. I remember him saying something like: they're very small and don't affect the grade. HAH! Now we'll have multiple grading services putting coins like that in holders saying: VF DETAILS RIM DAMAGE. And, we'll have dealers telling newbies: that doesn't really affect the grade... see, it's right there on the slab, it's a VF.
PCGS was founded on the idea of market grading. I have sent an email to David Hall encouraging him to consider some form of market grading problem coins at PCGS... >>
Yes, and now we have dealers saying it can't be AU regardless of the wear on the coin--unless of course they are buying it. See, it says MS-63 right there on the PCGS label.
LEARN TO GRADE what you collect!!! and teach others how to do the same.
it depends on the service and series and how bad the problem is
Dave
<< <i>HAH! Now we'll have multiple grading services putting coins like that in holders saying: VF DETAILS RIM DAMAGE >>
How bout the "top two" that state nothing to the effect of any damage? And not just newbies think the "top two"
will not slab a problem coin. Some of the problems are fine as far as I'm concerned but they sure don't state anything.
Scratches, cleanings, rim dings many times are slabbed by the "Top Two" Oh yes, and bring more money as many here state. Haha
Try this poll: Would you pay MS money for a coin slabbed "UNC details-cleaned" or "MS63 details-cleaned." I think only bidding (or voting) errors or truly exceptional cases (a rare variety not attributed) would anyone put up MS money for a coin with that on the slab. I bet even if you polled newbies one month into the hobby, over 90% would vote "no way I'm paying MS money for that."
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<< <i>currently all services net grade certain problem coins to some extent or another
it depends on the service and series and how bad the problem is >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Try this poll: Would you pay MS money for a coin slabbed "UNC details-cleaned" or "MS63 details-cleaned." I think only bidding (or voting) errors or truly exceptional cases (a rare variety not attributed) would anyone put up MS money for a coin with that on the slab. I bet even if you polled newbies one month into the hobby, over 90% would vote "no way I'm paying MS money for that." >>
Of course a poll here would say that. Most people on this forum are well educated coin people. I myself have taken Grading, Advanced Grading and problem coin detection at the ANA Summer seminar.
I know how to grade, and I net grade problem coins that I end up with. That's one reason I narrowed down this poll. The question is whether this is bad for your average uneducated slab buyer.
The results of this poll are very interesting. Through the first 40 or so votes a very strong majority like 80% felt that yes uneducated people would get ripped off. Now as the Red State - Blue State nature of this issue has been clashed about here the gap is narrowing. Although the majority still vote yes.
I could see 2 other interesting polls that could be run related to this. Are you in Favor of there being a company that would market (net) grade coins? Yes or No Should PCGS market grade problem coins in a different slab? Yes or no.
I won't be the one running them though. I have made my sentiments known and I'm done. Thanks for all the opinons. I have enjoyed these exchanges...
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