In many years of collecting, buying/selling coins, only one company has totally ripped me off...

Comments

• homerunhall Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:06AM

  
  Here's the facts...and the numbers...
  
  Is it possible some of these coins were undergraded?: Yes
  
  Is it possible some of these coins were overgraded?: Yes
  
  Is there any way to tell without physically looking at the coins: No
  
  Does PCGS have a Presidential Review service where you can get coins re-examined by me personally and have me be your champion in the grading room if I agree with you: Yes
  
  Number of coins that I would change in Presidential Review if I thought the coins were undergraded and could get at least two graders to agree with me: All of them
  
  Number of coins that change in Presidential Review: Less than one out of twenty
  
  Number of PCGS submitters that can grade as good as the guys in the grading room at PCGS: Much less than 1 out of 100.
  
  Number of people who call us a "rip off company" that will be banned from the message boards: All of them.
  
  Guys...a little advice. If you have a problem with PCGS grading, use the Presidential Review service and I will try to help you. Or send me an email at dh@collectors.com and I will tell what I think and how I think you could fix things if there was truly a mistake. If you have a service related problem please call customer service. If they don't do a good job for you let me know and I'll try to help you.
  
  We're here to help. I'm here to help.
  
  Thanks,
  
  David Hall
  
  Number of coins

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• Lakesammman Posts: 17,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:11AM

  Well said.....

  "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.

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• PerryHall Posts: 46,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:18AM

  
  
  << <i>Well said..... >>
  
  
  
  Suck up!

  Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
  "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
  "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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• RYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:23AM

  Wow! The amazing shrinking thread!

  My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132

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• cladking Posts: 28,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:23AM

  Considering everything it's a wonder the thread wasn't much uglier. It
  may be best if the rest of it disappears into the cornfield also. The author
  was a very high quality poster otherwise and many of us hope he'll be
  seen again even with a new user name.
  
  Thanks for answering. It does lead to a great question for a Q&A session.

  Tempus fugit.

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• relayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

  May 16, 2005 8:27AM

  
  Names were taken, names were taken
  
  Good thing nobody called the graders stupid

  
  My posts viewed times
  since 8/1/6

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• PerryHall Posts: 46,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:41AM

  Can we assume haletj is now banned?

  Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
  "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
  "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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• mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:44AM

  
  
  << <i>Can we assume haletj is now banned? >>
  
  
  
  I thinkin that the answer is yes.

  coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section

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• Russ Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:51AM

  Any bets on how long it takes for this to become a hot topic, (hot topic being defined as any opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE

  eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC

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• ER Posts: 7,345 ✭

  May 16, 2005 8:52AM

  100-plus posts, POOF*

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• Bochiman Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:53AM

  Well, just get the little rat (one of them is MWC13 who seems to have a vendetta against HRH and PCGS) and it won't be long.
  Seems some people just like to run over there and jump up and down when things like this happen.
  
  Also funny that they lurk here or post in both and like to take just the "ugly" rather than the good as well.

  I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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• Gonfunko Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 8:55AM

  The Ban-Man cometh...
  All in all, not too surprising. This certainly isn't the place to be bashing PCGS, and I agree with the action taken - you aren't going to let people insult you in your own house.

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• ksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭

  May 16, 2005 8:58AM

  
  
  << <i>Any bets on how long it takes for this to become a hot topic, (hot topic being defined as any opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE >>
  
  
  
  Are you saying they actually post threads over there??

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• MrEureka Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:05AM

  Legend Coinguy kindly disregard this thread.

  Andy Lustig
  
  Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
  
  Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

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• spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:17AM

  
  
  << <i>Any bets on how long it takes to become a hot topic (hot topic being defined as an opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE >>
  
  
  
  I had something in mind to say to this concerning
  
  << <i>...the sharpest crayola in the box, ... >>
  
  but I 'll let it go, as did the individual this barb was aimed at.
  
  As far as
  
  << <i>Are you saying they actually post threads over there?? >>
  
  , look no further then the above quoted member.

  Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.

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• ksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:29AM

  
  
  << <i>
  
  << <i>Any bets on how long it takes to become a hot topic (hot topic being defined as an opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE >>
  
  
  
  I had something in mind to say to this concerning
  
  << <i>...the sharpest crayola in the box, ... >>
  
  but I 'll let it go, as did the individual this barb was aimed at.
  
  As far as
  
  << <i>Are you saying they actually post threads over there?? >>
  
  , look no further then the above quoted member. >>
  
  
  
  Would you care to translate this jibberish to English??

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• streeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:30AM

  
  
  editted...I second steelheaders request...I'll wait here at the bar ....until it comes.
  editted....Oh now I get it SPY is a lurker from across the street....Da Oh.

  Have a nice day

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• flaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:31AM

  
  
  << <i>100-plus posts, POOF* >>
  
  That's why I will always consider RCC to be my online numismatic "home". No censorship whatsoever, for better or for worse.

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• Bochiman Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:37AM

  
  
  << <i>
  
  << <i>
  
  << <i>Any bets on how long it takes to become a hot topic (hot topic being defined as an opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE >>
  
  
  
  I had something in mind to say to this concerning
  
  << <i>...the sharpest crayola in the box, ... >>
  
  but I 'll let it go, as did the individual this barb was aimed at.
  
  As far as
  
  << <i>Are you saying they actually post threads over there?? >>
  
  , look no further then the above quoted member. >>
  
  
  
  Would you care to translate this jibberish to English?? >>
  
  
  
  Ok, I'm with Ken on this.....
  You quote quotes that don't seem to pertain. You are esoteric. Why not just say what you mean?
  
  Also, appears that the "across the street" board is not available right now.....I wanted to see "who" would be the first to run over there and post the thread that Russ mentioned, and, while the main webpage is up, the "boards" keeps erroring out.....

  I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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• ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:38AM

  
  
  << <i>That's why I will always consider RCC to be my online numismatic "home". No censorship whatsoever, for better or for worse. >>
  
  I think "for better *and* for worse," actually.

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• pharmer Posts: 8,355 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:44AM

  
  
  << <i>
  
  << <i>Any bets on how long it takes to become a hot topic (hot topic being defined as an opportunity to bash PCGS), at the morgue across the street?
  
  Russ, NCNE >>
  
  
  
  I had something in mind to say to this concerning
  
  << <i>...the sharpest crayola in the box, ... >>
  
  but I 'll let it go, as did the individual this barb was aimed at.
  
  As far as
  
  << <i>Are you saying they actually post threads over there?? >>
  
  , look no further then the above quoted member. >>
  
  
  
  Cobras is cryptic critters.
  
  I wonder if telecoin survived?

  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
  
  Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
  
  

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• Russ Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:51AM

  
  
  << <i>Also, appears that the "across the street" board is not available right now..... >>
  
  
  
  Probably too much traffic. Three people tried to post at once.
  
  Russ, NCNE

  eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC

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• ER Posts: 7,345 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:52AM

  

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• MrEureka Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:53AM

  Jaime - Ever consider grading for PCGS? Obviously, they can use supreme talent like yours. And given how much $1800 means to you, I suspect you would be very happy with the pay package they can offer. Yes, I'm serious. Give them a call!
  
  

  Andy Lustig
  
  Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
  
  Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

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• MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:54AM

  I didn't get bammed- and I at one time stated that the grading on a specific coin was bull, and I would imagine that if David were to review a certain coin of mine, at PCGS expense, I will be more than happy to send it to him- better yet I'll hand it to him at the LB show- I plan on bein there on Friday or Saturday- depends on how the fish are a bitin up at Casitas, cuz Sunday is reserved for Castaic, and the show ends on Saturday.
  
  To bad- apparently spending bucks is not what the deal was all about- haj - complained and it hit a sore spot.
  
  BTW- this is NOT bashing the HOUSE- it is a forum for opinions- and takes up no time or energy to print- bashing is dirty name calling - I don't condone that jibberish- but being honest- TOTALLY.
  
  That's my story and I'm stickin to it.

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• streeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 9:55AM

  I'll betcha this one goes past a hundred or I'm not thread killer.

  Have a nice day

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• telecoin Posts: 191 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:56AM

  I'm here...Although I don't thnk anyone would miss me considering I post about once every 4 months. I didn't slam anyone. I just related obsevations on variations in my extensive submission results.

  My website: WWW.telecoin.bizland.com

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• lloydmincy Posts: 1,861 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:56AM

  Jaime:
  
  Your thread is still alive, but I bet you submit to PCGS under your name again, all your coins will be BB'ed!!!!!

  The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith
  
  

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• MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:57AM

  Tops 185 before another dump of the thread.

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• ER Posts: 7,345 ✭

  May 16, 2005 9:57AM

  Legitimate complaining is one thing, but accusing your host of ripping you off without proof is a no-no.

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• coinkat Posts: 23,631 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:12AM

  Is it remotely possible that we need to think about coins and grades and what collecting was like before grading services? And this is not about a modern v traditional (classic) debate, it is about coins and what they are and what they should be and how they should be graded so a realistic value can be accessed.
  
  PCGS is a service that offers an opinion as to the grade of a coin as well as a forum for the exchange of information. One of the two will be around for awhile...

  Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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• ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:16AM

  
  
  << <i>with emphasis on legitimate. I cant stand whiners who like to air their dirty laundry
  
  in a public forum >>
  
  Yep. I've seen "legitimate' stuff here about PCGS -- really doggy, horrid coins (perhaps turned in the holder) that were graded 66 and had fingerprints *everywhere*. Those are legit -- and I've regularly seen HRH invite the owner to send it in for evaluation and to be reimbursed if the coin was crap.
  
  Just going off half-cokked (dang spell-checker even stops legitimate usage) saying "PCGS ripped me off" isn't doing that. I think the OP could have started an interesting discussion about standards and whether/how much they are tightening, but "PCGS ripped me off" isn't the way to start that. Not when the business you're attacking is paying the bills for the boards.
  

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• TUMUSS Posts: 2,207 ✭

  May 16, 2005 10:19AM

  Personally, I believe I have become a better grader by sending coins to PCGS and not getting the results I expected.

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• spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:22AM

  ESOTERIC: Intended for or understood by only a particular individual or group.
  
  
  
  << <i>Would you care to translate this jibberish to English? >>
  
  
  Not necessary as my esoteric post has been read by and passed over for comment by said individual who knew exactly what I meant.

  Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.

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• ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:23AM

  
  
  << <i>Not necessary as my esoteric post has been read by and passed over for comment by said individual who knew exactly what I meant. >>
  
  If it was intended for only one person, wouldn't a PM have been better?
  

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• Russ Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:24AM

  
  
  << <i>That's why I will always consider RCC to be my online numismatic "home". No censorship whatsoever, for better or for worse. >>
  
  
  
  The difference is that NG's aren't paid for and hosted by a business.
  
  Russ, NCNE

  eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC

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• ksteelheader Posts: 11,777 ✭

  May 16, 2005 10:26AM

  
  
  << <i>ESOTERIC: Intended for or understood by only a particular individual or group.
  
  
  
  << <i>Would you care to translate this jibberish to English? >>
  
  
  Not necessary as my esoteric post has been read by and passed over for comment by said individual who knew exactly what I meant. >>
  
  
  
  You seem to be good with that trick of yours!
  
  
  
  
  You know, the one where you pull your lips over your head and swallow!!!

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• streeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:37AM

  You know that coins must be slow when the coin board gets this slow.

  Have a nice day

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• spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭

  May 16, 2005 10:52AM

  
  
  << <i>If it was intended for only one person, wouldn't a PM have been better? >>
  
  
  Nope. Been there, done that. The person I PM'ed decided on his own to thread it here openly. And, esoterically speaking, I'm sure that person will read this and know what I'm talking about.

  Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.

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• streeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:08AM

  BUT for everyone elses sake--let's hope that we can read minds.

  Have a nice day

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• peg Posts: 176

  May 16, 2005 11:10AM

  

  3 Jonesy Dammit Girls...CLW POTD!!! 10/9/05

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• K6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭

  May 16, 2005 11:12AM

  
  
  << <i>Well, just get the little rat (one of them is MWC13 who seems to have a vendetta against HRH and PCGS) and it won't be long.
  Seems some people just like to run over there and jump up and down when things like this happen.
  
  Also funny that they lurk here or post in both and like to take just the "ugly" rather than the good as well. >>
  
  
  
  Didn't take him long. He's made the post over there.

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• Russ Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:15AM

  
  
  << <i>Didn't take him long. He's made the post over there. >>
  
  
  
  Yep. As soon as the board came back up, the little troll was on it. He was probably popping veins while he couldn't post the news.
  
  Russ, NCNE

  eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC

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• ellewood Posts: 1,750 ✭

  May 16, 2005 11:19AM

  If Jaime got banned...it really is a shame. Jaime is a great guy and has helped me out TREMENDOUSLY with my set over the past year. I will definitely by keeping in touch with him via email. Hopefully, he will return again soon.
  
  The lesson I learned as a newbie here....is to keep my mouth shut if I ever have grading issues.....cause the folks at PCGS sure don't play wiffleball!
  
  

  

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• Bochiman Posts: 25,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:19AM

  Troll is about right.
  Whether he is 13 or 39, he is definitely immature and not very bright, in a worldly sense.

  I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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• spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:20AM

  Just so you all know the fact, midwest (newbie and a young one) is not me. My user id there is david4988 and one id is more than enough for either forum. Just as you all knew it would happen, so did I but it wasn't going to come from me.

  Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.

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• Russ Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:22AM

  
  
  << <i>Just so you all know the fact, midwest (newbie and a young one) is not me. >>
  
  
  
  We know that. He was banned here under five or six different handles.
  
  Russ, NCNE

  eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC

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• K6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭

  May 16, 2005 11:22AM

  Spy, any of us who have been around for a while know that.

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• spy88 Posts: 764 ✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:26AM

  Ok, just didn't want everyone thinking it was me. Missed the post with the "MWC13" reference. I've got issues with PCGS and some of the forum members, but the same for NGC. I'm sure it's that way for everybody.

  Everything starts and everything stops at precisely the right time for precisely the right reason.

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• stev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭

  May 16, 2005 11:28AM

  Interesting thread. I would like to comment on HRH’s response – specifically about the presidential review. In the case of PCGS mistakes the submitting party has two options - re-submit and hope the mistake is corrected or presidential review. Either option costs the submitter more money. If in fact there was a PCGS mistake why should the submitter be penalized? And who should determine if PCGS made a mistake – PCGS? That sounds a little like the fox guarding the hen house. At the very least there is a conflict of interest. Now suppose the Presidential review finds the initial grade to be in error – why should the submitter pay for a PCGS error?
  
  The ideal solution would be a third party grader that both PCGS and the submitter agree can settle the dispute, and the loser pays the fee. That is what happens in industrial chemical analysis disputes, but I have a doubt that is a realistic option here - mainly because of the potential cost to PCGS. I wish I could get my clients to pay for my mistakes.
  
  Overall there is a lot of room for improvement in the coin grading business. When many thousands of dollars are at stake based on the subjective opinion of one, or two, or even three graders there is going to be a lot of discontent. As a buyer or as a seller the one thing that is needed above all else is consistency. Somehow the graders must be calibrated to produce the same grades today and 20 years from today. If I buy an MS65 coin today I want it to be an MS65 coin 20 years from now. If one dealer can turn in over 13,000 PCGS labels from coins that have upgraded there seems to be very little consistency in grading standards over time.
  

  Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?

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