How should I handle this gross misrepresentation? (UPDATE 9/22 at bottom)
airplanenut
Posts: 22,348 ✭✭✭✭✭
I bought this on eBay--figured (knew) the colors were enhanced, but assumed they would still be there, just a little weaker...
This is the coin, as photographed by me:
Can you note the overall lack of pretty much all color? Or how some of those endroll lines are nearly nonexistant? What about the fingerprint that wasn't mentioned? From the description:
"ICE,AND SEA BLUES,REDS,OVER A SEMI PL FIELD." Yeah, right!
How would you suggest I go about this one? The shipping was $7 (actual postage: $2.13, insured for $50, not the $62 that I paid, as there was no blue label)... it was shipped in a bubble mailer. And yes, I knew the cost, and I factored it in--but the coin that was sold is NOT the coin I got, except for the fact that it's in the same holder with the same serial number.
What are your opinions?
Thanks,
Jeremy
PS- For those who couldn't tell from the first image, the seller was Bondman22
This is the coin, as photographed by me:
Can you note the overall lack of pretty much all color? Or how some of those endroll lines are nearly nonexistant? What about the fingerprint that wasn't mentioned? From the description:
"ICE,AND SEA BLUES,REDS,OVER A SEMI PL FIELD." Yeah, right!
How would you suggest I go about this one? The shipping was $7 (actual postage: $2.13, insured for $50, not the $62 that I paid, as there was no blue label)... it was shipped in a bubble mailer. And yes, I knew the cost, and I factored it in--but the coin that was sold is NOT the coin I got, except for the fact that it's in the same holder with the same serial number.
What are your opinions?
Thanks,
Jeremy
PS- For those who couldn't tell from the first image, the seller was Bondman22
JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
0
Comments
Sorry to hear about your disappointing EBay purchase, but it demonstrates something about coin photography buyers can learn from: the color of the label, plastic and incert can be more valuable than the image of the coin itself. We know what the slab should look like but not the coin. The border on this NGC label is the tell-tale sign, it's been saturated with contrast. And the white incert is radiating due to enhancement. You have a solid case against this seller for playing with this image way beyond the acceptable parameters.
I don't think it was that eye-appealing even in the seller's obviously-brightened picture. Ick.
<< 1) What kind of return policy does he have??
2) Return it, and politely voice the complaints you just posted. >>
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
THERE IS A FOUR DAY NO QUESTION ASKED RETURN POLICY.>>
seems like a no brainer to me ???
<< <i>What kind of return policy does he have?? >>
That doesn't matter. Don't let rip off artists hide behind a "no return" policy. I had one try that and I simply wrote him
" Seller is a liar, coin was hairlined and deeply marked, refused return, stay clear of this cheat"
and I asked him if he wanted this as his feedback.
He sent my $ back.
GL
<< <i>After all that has been posted here you actually bid on a Bondman Coin??? You should be grounded from buying coins for one month for making such a HUGH error!! >>
I know... however, I never expected a picture to be that much of a lie--I figured the colors just wouldn't be as strong, not non-existent.
<< <i>but it demonstrates something about coin photography buyers can learn from: the color of the label >>
Good point--again, I underestimated the severity of what was done.
And yes, a return seems like a no-brainer. I also wondered if anyone had advice on getting some of the shipping back--it was ridiculous and I factored it into my bid, not assuming something like this would happen.
Jeremy
<< <i>yes, I would politely take advantage of the 4-day return. If they ask why just say because you enhanced the colors in your photo and it does not look, in person, like it did on your auction site. If you have any problems, then you can go through Paypal, if you paid that way - and then you can get nasty.
GL >>
Nope, sent a check... but I do believe he sets up at a local show...
I would also request that my return postage be refunded as a result. Be professional, polite and firm, as I know you can (and will)
A while back, I bought a coin from somebody here that turned out to be darker than the picture...
I kept it, though. It's a great piece.
<< <i>What about the fingerprint that wasn't mentioned? From the description: >>
Not sticking up for the seller but imo this isn't something that MOST dealers ever mention. Then I have to ask, then they get all defensive and say it doen't detract the eye-appeal etc. etc. You know what I mean.
<< <i>You should expect to get your initial shipping back--not necessarily your return shipping. >>
Frankly, I'd rather that... $7.50 vs. $2
<< <i>Might be able to file a complaint with Ebay at the risk of a neg. >>
I haven't left feedback either.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
<< <i>Sorry this happened to you, Jeremy. I wouldn't bother if you spent less than $50 or so, given all the shipping costs involved both ways. >>
After shipping, $70--that's a lot for me.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
The best advice is to not deal with him again, as I've decided also. Sorry it happened to you, but he's apparently fooled a lot of people (including me) from the sounds of the threads lately. I decided to just "suck it up" and learn from the experience. Seems like people are starting to recognize the enhanced photos for what they are. In the long run, a person's reputation and integrity are more important and more valuable than a quick buck.
Old proverb ".... a man with money met a man with experience, the man with experience left with the money and the man with money left with the experience."
Not exactly the same thing, but you get the idea.
<< <i>yes, I would politely take advantage of the 4-day return. If they ask why just say because you enhanced the colors in your photo and it does not look, in person, like it did on your auction site. If you have any problems, then you can go through Paypal, if you paid that way - and then you can get nasty.
GL >>
Nope, when you file a claim with PayPal they ask you if you received your package and when you say yes 2 seconds after you submit your claim you will receive an email telling that your case has been closed and there is nothing they can do. Ask anyone who has filed a claim when they received a package from the seller.
I shipped the coin back yesterday, and today had a check in my PO box for the coin, and shipping both ways. Doesn't excuse the ultra-image-doctoring, but it does take away any monetary damage from the deal.
Jeremy
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>Jeremy: I'm glad that you are out only the agrravation and not any money on the deal (other than perhaps S/H/I). Glad it worked out OK for you... >>
S/H both ways was refunded, too
<< <i>I'd return it. I wouldn't try to teach the guy a lesson or call him names or anything. Just a simple "this coin doesnt' fit my collection" type of thing. If it is clearly stated there are no returns I would still politely ask if I could return the coin but would expect to eat it. >>
Agreed and if forced to eat it I would definitely make a stink about it.
If in fact Jeremy's photos are accurate and there is that huge a difference in the look, then it's obvious that the seller played with the photoshop or whatever web people use, with intent to be deceptive.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
This could be a whole set of issues about buying on the internet huh?
Personally I don't buy or sell any coin of substance using a scan. It's gotta be the real thing baby on memo. But for the retail buyer there has to be a return option after 2 or 3 days until that person establishes credit/memo options.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Glad you got the refund as it seems well justified. Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that you publicized this on the boards ??? Was Bondman watching ???
Don't know, don't care--it turned out the best I could have expected.
<< <i>Agreed and if forced to eat it I would definitely make a stink about it.
If in fact Jeremy's photos are accurate and there is that huge a difference in the look, then it's obvious that the seller played with the photoshop or whatever web people use, with intent to be deceptive. >>
I played with my image to try to match his--beefed up the contrast about half as far as it would go, and saturation about 75% of the way to as far as possible--yeah, this was EXTREME overkill (eventually I even got green, though
"Don't know, don't care--it turned out the best I could have expected"
Jeremy, perhaps you should (and others would) care. It probably had something to do with the way you handled the situation and the wording of the message you sent to the seller - if so, it could serve as a good example with which to help others
<< <i><< Glad you got the refund as it seems well justified. Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that you publicized this on the boards ??? Was Bondman watching ??? >>
"Don't know, don't care--it turned out the best I could have expected"
Jeremy, perhaps you should (and others would) care. It probably had something to do with the way you handled the situation and the wording of the message you sent to the seller - if so, it could serve as a good example with which to help others
Mark is (again
Dear seller,
This message pertains to your 1885 Morgan Dollar NGC MS64, Ebay item #3928610814, which I received today.
I am sorry to say that I am extremely disappointed with the coin, as it does not look nearly as attractive or colorful as portrayed in your images.
I will be sending it back for a refund and am requesting that you also reimburse me for my return postage. If the images had been accurate I would not be making this request.
Please let me know to what address you would like your coin shipped.
When you refund my payment (in the amount of $71.71, [$62.08 coin, $7.50 shipping, $2.13 return postage]), please send it to:
[address]
Thank you,
Jeremy Katz
<< <i>
<< <i>What kind of return policy does he have?? >>
That doesn't matter. Don't let rip off artists hide behind a "no return" policy. I had one try that and I simply wrote him
" Seller is a liar, coin was hairlined and deeply marked, refused return, stay clear of this cheat"
and I asked him if he wanted this as his feedback.
He sent my $ back. >>
This may border on feedback extortion but the point is well made and very effective.
and may be acceptable in some instances.
Rookie Joe
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>the color of the label, plastic and incert can be more valuable than the image of the coin itself. >>
This is an excellent point. I've also made special not of the incert color. If it doesn't look natural, I pass.
shylock puts on a good photography lesson though...doesn't he??
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