The large and small dates can be fairly easy to spot. The large date pieces have the same size date as most all pre-`82 cents. Its easy to see the size difference when comparing two side by side.
The which are zinc and which are copper can be trickier to identify. The poor man`s method I usually employee is the drop test. The coppers will have a kind of ring sound when dropped, but the zincs do not ring at all. But if your ears arent that good to tell and you can weigh the coins, the coppers will be atleast in the 3 gram range while the zincs are lighter at about the 2.5 grams weight.
The drop test is far more reliable than looking for bubbles. I've been telling people about the drop test for a number of years, and it works every single time - no question.
You can also set up a simple see-saw made out of a popsickle stick and a penny glued to one end. Put the fulcrum so that the test penny will move the lever down if it is copper, and stay up if it is zinc. It works every time.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
and lastly, grip the coin with two pairs of pliers and fold the coin in half. If its silver-colored inside it was a Zincoln, or if its not, it was a good cent.
The drop test is quick and easy for telling what you have, but you run the risk of damaging the coin by dropping it that way. Even dropping it a few inches can cause the surface to scratch.
An accurate scale is best. A scale is what I prefer to use.
I don't like doing this test because of the risk involved, but I have used this test many times for getting rid of stress!
You WILL go almost cross-eyed when sorting small date from large date if you do not have another one that is already known to set beside it. To stop this from happening, I asked a local dealer how he prevented it from happening and he told me. So far it has not failed me.
On small dates, the nine APPEARS to not be proportional in relationship to the other numbers. This is only an optical illusion. The large date is approximately proportional to the other numbers and so is the small date. But by letting this illusion have it's way with you, you can sort large dates from small dates rather quickly and with a very low amount of error on your part.
I have been able to apply this "illusion" system to other years where we have small and large dates. 1960 pennies are even easier to pick out using this system than the 1982 because both the nine and the six give that illusion.
As a warning.... This wonderful illusion system that I was taught can handle coins dated 19XX. But I am not sure how it will react to coins dated after 2000. The man who taught it to me never lived to see the year 2000 so I will just have to see how well this system holds up or if it just needs a slight modification. But it may not need any because now the two will most likely appear the same way in relationship to the zero next to it. But since we have not had a large and small date year yet, I cannot be sure.
Still there is the issue of zinc vs copper. Some large date Zincolns were minted, and some small date coppers were minted but yes, generally we think of the large dates as copper and the small dates zinc but thats not alway the case.
Drainbamage - I'm not talking about throwing the coins across the room, I'm talking about letting them settle on a formica-type countertop or on a wood table...that will NOT damage the coins. Come on, they're only pennies anyway.
Another way to see if it's copper or zinc coated is to take sand paper and rub the edge of the coin. If it stay's copper shiny, it's copper. If you get a silvery color, it's zinc. You will also have a homemade bodybag!!
Coppercoins - Dropping any coin from any height just makes me nervous. But I then made the joke about it helping stress. It was not made to slam you for I could be wrong. But either way it is not my style.... The stress remark was intended to make some laughter. I did not mean to offend.
But wait all.... This question here is more than just copper and zinc.....
In my post I went one step further..... I told how I seperated the small dates and large quickly and painlessly.....
So I have my illusion system for the dates. How do YOU do it? Only Cam40 has mentioned this so far.
We got the classic "compare" system and my "illusion" system. What else guys?
The actual date size difference is very easy to separate - the large date has a straight diagonal on the 2 and is somewhat misshapen - the small date has a curved diagonal on the 2 and is thinner, more perfect. All of the obverse lettering on the small date is thinner and more distinct. Lincoln changed a little, but not enough to really tell the difference without having them side by side.
As for the "drop test", would you like it better if I changed the name to the "settle test"? I'm NOT condoning dropping coins from "any distance", I mentined letting the coins settle from edge on a table...that can't damage anything, and thinking it would is a bit anal. If it helps to illustrate it, you hold the coin at 45 degrees or more with the edge touching the table and let go. The coin will settle in a second to three seconds depending on how it falls, during which time you should easily be able to tell the difference. All this stuff about scales and pencils or popsickle sticks is unnecessary. Once again, we are talking about pennies here...no whopping valuable items.
IF... you just happen to have a 40 power microscope laying around gathering dust...
looking at your coins thru it helps,
many times the copper stretchs or gets pulled away from the zinc at the instant of strike (mostly around the letters)
if its a circulation coin...that also might have a tiny ding in it revealing the zinc inside it.
microscopes are very handy for identifying all kinds of errors....such as (on lincoln cents)....
1. the lincoln monicle 2. lincolns pigtail 3. lincolns cracked skull 4. THE bullet hole 5. the missing VDB 6. lincoln with the measles 7. lincoln with an alien ear 8. the lincoln booger 9. every kind of strike doubling known to man
then there are the real ones !
REAL doubled dies REAL over dates REAL re-punched mintmarks
True, but what will they say about this procedure in 100 years?
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Procedure - You make it sound like it's some sort of dissection or that I'm sawing them in half. C'mon! You mean to tell me that you handle every single coin without letting them make any noise at all when you sit them on a table? I guess you wear white cotton gloves and have a felt pad handy when you handle your pocket change...and I thought I was anal about things.
Once again, I am NOT talking about tossing the coins across the room - you people are acting as if it's some horrific detriment to the coin to let it settle onto a table - puhhleez!!
Coppercoins, LOL!! Two points (or more) for humor.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Pocket change? Pocket change? Well sure after you ring it then it won't be MS-70 anymore.
Seriously though, you can usually tell by feel. And their appearance usually gives them away, though this isn't foolproof and doesn't often work for circs.
About 70% of the zinc cents are already gone. In twenty years, if they continue in use, about 90% of those already made would be gone. Except for some of those saved by collectors, the vast ma- jority of those already made will have been destroyed or be in "uncollectible" condition in 100 years. But the government will quit making these and those remaining at that time will be taken care of bet- ter.
Were there any zinc Proofs? We should do the drop test on the Proofs in order to find out, I think.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
The popsicle scale works very well. I just used a round ballpoint pen put a copper cent on one end (didn't glue it). Put a copper cent on the other end. Turn the pen one way or the other until it balances. Mark the center point. Put any cent on it, a copper one will raise the other side to balance it. A zinc one won't budge it.
Usually I can distinguish copper from zinc cents by eyeballing them, but I feel weighting is a more dependable way of telling one from the other.
Raw, the copper coins weigh 3.11 grams, while the zinc weigh 2.50 grams. So the mini digital pocket scale (MX-200) that I bought a couple of years ago easily enables me to distinguish one type from the other when it comes to raw coins. It measures to the nearest one tenth of a gram.
I’ve also developed standard weights for copper vs. zinc when the coins are slabbed in PCGS holders, which is necessary because PCGS doesn’t yet identify 1982 varieties on its inserts. However, the weight of the (new) PCGS holders is fairly consistent – quite enough so as to allow one to distinguish whether the slabbed coins are copper or zinc.
NGC slabs are less predictable because at some point they changed the composition and structure of their slabs. But, NGC identifies the 1982 variety on their inserts, so weighing isn’t necessary. Or, is it? Once I saw a Lincoln in an NGC holder labeled 1982D Small Date Bronze!!!! That was really exciting, until common sense took hold and I realized it was just a mistake. For those of you that don't have this stuff at your fingertips, 1982D Small Date Bronze is the one variety that wasn't minted. The coin was actually zinc.
Why doesn't PCGS use large/small date Cu/Zn designations? These are recognizable and have importance to every Lincoln cent collector I know of - including myself.
PCGS has not yet seen fit to designate 1982 mint state Lincolns as large/small date or copper/zinc. You might ask David Hall in the Q&A Forum what his thinking is on the subject. It's a topic that has come up before. As all may know, NGC does designate 1982 Lincolns as large or small and bronze (copper) or zinc.
It was not until 1983 that Lincoln proofs were made with the copper-plated zinc composition; 1982 proofs were the same as in prior years.
I had this delema a couple of weeks ago. I went to a coin store and asked for his advice. He offered me a set of all seven in MS-60 for 3 bucks. All these tests are great if you have time and want to expend the effort, but if you just want to fill in your collection 3 bucks saves you a lot of stress. Look around and see if you can buy a set cheap.
is there any way that you could use a multimeter to check the electrical resistance between a zinc penny and a copper penny? i want to try it but i can't find the leads to my multimeter and don't currantly have any time to get to radio shack while its open and get new ones. if anyone else has the ability to test this please do.. i will try it this weekend some time
<< <i>is there any way that you could use a multimeter to check the electrical resistance between a zinc penny and a copper penny? i want to try it but i can't find the leads to my multimeter and don't currantly have any time to get to radio shack while its open and get new ones. if anyone else has the ability to test this please do.. i will try it this weekend some time >>
Nothing like reviving an 8 year old thread for your first post. FYI a majority of that thread's posters are MIA
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I have never seen the mintage broken out by alloy, only the sum total per mint. Surely it is documented somewhere, since they should know how many planchets were made of each type.
I imagine large vs small date would probably need to be estimated from a population study.
Comments
The which are zinc and which are copper can be trickier to identify.
The poor man`s method I usually employee is the drop test.
The coppers will have a kind of ring sound when dropped, but the zincs do not ring at all.
But if your ears arent that good to tell and you can weigh the coins, the coppers will be
atleast in the 3 gram range while the zincs are lighter at about the 2.5 grams weight.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
If its silver-colored inside it was a Zincoln, or if its not, it was a good cent.
An accurate scale is best. A scale is what I prefer to use.
I don't like doing this test because of the risk involved, but I have used this test many times for getting rid of stress!
You WILL go almost cross-eyed when sorting small date from large date if you do not have another one that is already known to set beside it. To stop this from happening, I asked a local dealer how he prevented it from happening and he told me. So far it has not failed me.
On small dates, the nine APPEARS to not be proportional in relationship to the other numbers. This is only an optical illusion. The large date is approximately proportional to the other numbers and so is the small date. But by letting this illusion have it's way with you, you can sort large dates from small dates rather quickly and with a very low amount of error on your part.
I have been able to apply this "illusion" system to other years where we have small and large dates. 1960 pennies are even easier to pick out using this system than the 1982 because both the nine and the six give that illusion.
As a warning.... This wonderful illusion system that I was taught can handle coins dated 19XX. But I am not sure how it will react to coins dated after 2000. The man who taught it to me never lived to see the year 2000 so I will just have to see how well this system holds up or if it just needs a slight modification. But it may not need any because now the two will most likely appear the same way in relationship to the zero next to it. But since we have not had a large and small date year yet, I cannot be sure.
It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. - Proverbs 25:24
were minted but yes, generally we think of the large dates as copper and the small dates zinc but thats not alway the case.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
a few years. Anything that's left is copper.
Look at the '84's in mint sets. Get em quick cause they're goin' fast.
But wait all.... This question here is more than just copper and zinc.....
In my post I went one step further..... I told how I seperated the small dates and large quickly and painlessly.....
So I have my illusion system for the dates. How do YOU do it? Only Cam40 has mentioned this so far.
We got the classic "compare" system and my "illusion" system. What else guys?
It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. - Proverbs 25:24
As for the "drop test", would you like it better if I changed the name to the "settle test"? I'm NOT condoning dropping coins from "any distance", I mentined letting the coins settle from edge on a table...that can't damage anything, and thinking it would is a bit anal. If it helps to illustrate it, you hold the coin at 45 degrees or more with the edge touching the table and let go. The coin will settle in a second to three seconds depending on how it falls, during which time you should easily be able to tell the difference. All this stuff about scales and pencils or popsickle sticks is unnecessary. Once again, we are talking about pennies here...no whopping valuable items.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
looking at your coins thru it helps,
many times the copper stretchs or gets pulled away from the zinc at the instant of strike (mostly around the letters)
if its a circulation coin...that also might have a tiny ding in it revealing the zinc inside it.
microscopes are very handy for identifying all kinds of errors....such as (on lincoln cents)....
1. the lincoln monicle
2. lincolns pigtail
3. lincolns cracked skull
4. THE bullet hole
5. the missing VDB
6. lincoln with the measles
7. lincoln with an alien ear
8. the lincoln booger
9. every kind of strike doubling known to man
then there are the real ones !
REAL doubled dies
REAL over dates
REAL re-punched mintmarks
True, but what will they say about this procedure in 100 years?
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Once again, I am NOT talking about tossing the coins across the room - you people are acting as if it's some horrific detriment to the coin to let it settle onto a table - puhhleez!!
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
And no... I am not kidding....
It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. - Proverbs 25:24
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Seriously though, you can usually tell by feel. And their appearance usually gives them away,
though this isn't foolproof and doesn't often work for circs.
About 70% of the zinc cents are already gone. In twenty years, if they continue in use, about 90%
of those already made would be gone. Except for some of those saved by collectors, the vast ma-
jority of those already made will have been destroyed or be in "uncollectible" condition in 100 years.
But the government will quit making these and those remaining at that time will be taken care of bet-
ter.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Its quite easy to tell the difference between the Large and small dates. Also, its easily to tell between the copper and copper plated cents IMO.
Raw, the copper coins weigh 3.11 grams, while the zinc weigh 2.50 grams. So the mini digital pocket scale (MX-200) that I bought a couple of years ago easily enables me to distinguish one type from the other when it comes to raw coins. It measures to the nearest one tenth of a gram.
I’ve also developed standard weights for copper vs. zinc when the coins are slabbed in PCGS holders, which is necessary because PCGS doesn’t yet identify 1982 varieties on its inserts. However, the weight of the (new) PCGS holders is fairly consistent – quite enough so as to allow one to distinguish whether the slabbed coins are copper or zinc.
NGC slabs are less predictable because at some point they changed the composition and structure of their slabs. But, NGC identifies the 1982 variety on their inserts, so weighing isn’t necessary. Or, is it? Once I saw a Lincoln in an NGC holder labeled 1982D Small Date Bronze!!!! That was really exciting, until common sense took hold and I realized it was just a mistake. For those of you that don't have this stuff at your fingertips, 1982D Small Date Bronze is the one variety that wasn't minted. The coin was actually zinc.
and your a Lincoln cent attributor?.......wash yer mouth out!
Also were the proof sets ZN or Cu?
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
It was not until 1983 that Lincoln proofs were made with the copper-plated zinc composition; 1982 proofs were the same as in prior years.
Dan
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>is there any way that you could use a multimeter to check the electrical resistance between a zinc penny and a copper penny? i want to try it but i can't find the leads to my multimeter and don't currantly have any time to get to radio shack while its open and get new ones. if anyone else has the ability to test this please do.. i will try it this weekend some time >>
Nothing like reviving an 8 year old thread for your first post.
FYI a majority of that thread's posters are MIA
There's never been one reported that I've ever heard about.
Out of curiosity, does anyone have any mintage estimates for the 7 varieties?
I knew it would happen.
I imagine large vs small date would probably need to be estimated from a population study.