1909 S iNDIAN CENT pcgs MS 67 RED

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 10, 2003 6:50AM

hEY gUYS

The infamous coin really exists.Graded many years ago it is not a typo.......but is it really a 67 red.....check it out in the Bowers and Merena ANA auction

Stewart

www.bowersandmerena.com

Louis · July 10, 2003 7:00AM

link

Check out the video also, homerunhall has some comments.

NumisEd · July 10, 2003 7:00AM

MS-67 RD? Says who?

cosmicdebris · July 10, 2003 7:03AM

DH does the video for B&M?

fivecents · July 10, 2003 7:07AM

Do you think it is RB ?

I see only one little tick on the cheek under the eye. That is a beautiful coin and pop. 1.

Paul

ohbaby · July 10, 2003 7:13AM

Looks RB and how can HomerunHall say "no marks"? Clearly on the cheek.

Maybe was RD when slabbed and turned?

Edited to add: Doesn't NTC have a ms68 RD out there?

coinguy1 · July 10, 2003 7:14AM

Stewart, why do you refer to the coin as "infamous"? Does is have a sordid past or something? Are you hoping to buy it for a bargain price of less than $10,000? $30,000? $50,000

clackamas · July 10, 2003 7:34AM

>>>MS-67 RD? Says who?

Well PCGS says it is and David Hall even did a video. So its safe to say that it has already gone through the grade guarnatee and PCGS is still standing behind the grade.

>>>but is it really a 67 red.....
I guess so ... is it really an MS69RD?

ccrdragon · July 10, 2003 7:35AM

I'd have to see it in person before I made any judgement on it... The marks could be on the holder and the color is suspect because of the pic...

Russ · July 10, 2003 7:47AM

They need to hire Shylock to image their IHCs.

Russ, NCNE

shylock · July 10, 2003 8:00AM

Coinguy1 - "infamous" because it's lived in the shadows since appearing on the pops. In the March 2002 Longacre's Ledger Rick Snow writes "Has anyone ever seen the 1909-S MS67?" when discussing the only 9 possible upgrades to the Epstein Collection. Many thought this coin was a typo, like one of the 2 1899 68RD's.

Stewart - don't let the 'phone guy' win this one, I want a pic!

These almost always have some poorly mixed copper in the planchet, giving them a "RB" look even though they're really two shades of full red. Stewart's 66RD is gorgeous, will be interesting to see how this one stacks up against it.

edit: thanx for the plug Russ, this is one coin I'd love to image for posterity.

jonesy · July 10, 2003 8:01AM

That's not a mark on the cheek. That's a tear for all you jealous Mo Fo's!!

coinguy1 · July 10, 2003 8:07AM

Thanks shylock/Paul. Should I bid on the phone against Stewart?

Legend · July 10, 2003 8:13AM

I may ruin everyones day on the coin!!!! Its my favorite date MS Indian Cent!!! But then theres always that PHONE bidder.......

shylock · July 10, 2003 8:24AM

I have a good New Jersey roadmap Laura, I will find you!

I'd like to see Stewart win it, then pimp & whore it off on Ebay. I'll take pictures of him holding the slab in his superfly outfit.

Lakesammman · July 10, 2003 8:30AM

I can see Stewart in his standing bid mode already.....can I buy your hand-me-down 66R??

I love it when a impartial arbiter evaluates a coin.......

Record price?? Think it will go over 69K?? I doubt it. Let me beat Stewart to the punch by saying it looks RB, streaky, spotted and weakly struck. Who in their right mind would buy that piece of plastic.......a registry hound????

shylock · July 10, 2003 8:45AM

That tick on the cheek could easily be the slab, but what's that above the N of UNITED?

Did David Hall invite a string quartet into his office when he did these videos?

Barry · July 10, 2003 8:50AM

And what's with that shirt?

Elcontador · July 10, 2003 8:57AM

Copper is very difficult to image re its color; Shylock does the best copper imaging I've seen. OTOH, this image of the 09S is too small to be helpful, period.

Mark · July 10, 2003 9:37AM

Shylock:

Don't you mean "Did David Hall invite a string quartet into his office when he was pimping and whoring those coins?"

Mark

P.S.: If I had a wolrd class set of copper coins (a'la Stewart) and I decided to sell them--I would require that the company employ Paul to image the coins. His pictures probably would add tens of thousands of dollars to the bids!

Russ · July 10, 2003 9:41AM

<< <i>Did David Hall invite a string quartet into his office when he did these videos?

And what's with that shirt? >>

Did anybody else flash on the ShopAtHome carnival barker while watching that video?

Russ, NCNE

Lakesammman · July 10, 2003 9:44AM

Russ - you mean the CoinVault?? Must be an audition tape.

Ditto Shylock as the photomiester.

Elcontador · July 10, 2003 11:07AM

Fortunately, I can't access these videos with my computer. Any coin with something to the effect of "see place in registry" is "too rich" for me & I don't bid on it. It's a lot like "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."

NumisEd · July 11, 2003 12:12AM

Well people, I think that we have hit bottom! First of all, that coin is NOT MS-67 RD. Of course those of you who drink Kool-Aid on a daily basis will not understand what I just said. Instead, you will look right at the label on the slab and say, "it says MS-67 RD right here on the PCGS label". The irony is that it is a beautiful coin and worth the same amount of money whether it's in a slab or raw. Why doesn't anybody else see and understand this???

PS - Don't you think the homerunhall could at least put on a nice dress shirt for the videos? What's up with the Hawaii print shirt? Book em' Dano!

dbldie55 · July 11, 2003 12:22AM

Ed, are you saying you have seen the coin in hand, and the grade is not MS67, or are you making this judgement from a scan?

NumisEd · July 11, 2003 12:36AM

I am making a judgement from the scan.......and the fact that I think it is impossible for that coin to be anything above a 65. I can see disturbances in the field and on the devices. It does not even look full red. This is just another example of grading inflation. Just like the 1804 dollar that went from EF-45 to PF-58 and the numerous other colonial coins that CCU (singapore) has posted recently on this forum. Coins that have gone from AU-50 to PCGS MS-62, etc., etc.

Here's one other thing that really, really troubles me: Homerunhall is peddling (aka pimping/whoreing) this "MS-67" indian and he states in the video, "this is graded MS-67 Red by PCGS". So, let's see here....homerunhall is a major stock holder in PCGS (they slabbed the coin) and he is a major stock holder in B&M (they are selling the coin). Uhhhhh, isn't that a major conflict of interest???

tjkillian · July 11, 2003 1:28AM

How can anyone tell anything from that picture? That is a very sad scan. Remember that picture lie. There could be dust/lint on the slab that would cause it to look like it has problems. On user said that looking at a coin in anything but your prefered lighting conditions in your own hand is the same as sight-unseen. Now, I'm not saying what the grade is as I have not seen it either, but I will say that the only folks who have seen it are B&M, the current owner, & PCGS, at least, there may be more. Until someone, other than PCGS looks at it, I would hold off on calling it anything but what the label says.

Tom

Elcontador · July 11, 2003 12:40PM

Tom makes a lot of sense. The only consistently good imaging of copper I've seen has been done by Shylock. The scan of the 09 S is ****-poor. Accurate color is the toughest thing to scan re copper

Anyone who can say anything about the scan, other than it ***** should refrain from spending his money on coins.

Geoman · July 11, 2003 2:01PM

I just watched the video of DH, and I have to say he doesn't fit the profile I have had of him in my head at all. I have never seen him, or heard him speak before. But the video reminds me of a slick used-car salesman, or a door-to-door salesman. Hmmmmm......

docday2003 · July 11, 2003 3:44PM

Well, I think the coin looks pretty decent, but the price is a little steep already...

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · July 12, 2003 12:02AM

Let's slab and grade David Hall doing this exposee.

I will grade him ms 65 questionable color

Now we need a body bag for David Hall

stewart

1909 S iNDIAN CENT pcgs MS 67 RED

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