Announcements Part 5: Free Full Torch designation

homerunhall · March 11, 2003 3:05PM

There are 46 1946-1964 Roosevelt sets and 27 1965 to date Roosevlt sets in the PCGS Set Registry. PCGS will review for Full Torch designation and reholder any of the coins in those sets FOR FREE so long as the owners submitt them by 6-30-03. Details will be posted in a week or two. This offer is good for any coin listed in the PCGS Roosevelt dime Set Registry before 3-11-03.

Thanks to all the Roosevlt collectors for their support of the PCGS Set Registry.

David Hall

PS...Please don't send in coins or even call us about this deal until 4-1-03. We won't be ready until then...

LucyBop · March 11, 2003 3:05PM

Be Bop A Lula!!!!! Outstanding offer!!!!

prooflike · March 11, 2003 3:07PM

That's a decent offer!

MastaHanky · March 11, 2003 3:07PM

WJOWSA!

Of course, SOMEBODY is going to have to spoil it and complain that they had to pay for shipping once already, blah blah blah.

mnmcoin · March 11, 2003 3:08PM

What about a 150+ just graded bulk submission that was picked up today.

mo <><

Cam40 · March 11, 2003 3:10PM

What will constitute Full-Torch.Some degree of sharpness in the bands at the top and or botton on the torch?

I,m still unclear on what makes a full-torch Roosie.

homerunhall · March 11, 2003 3:14PM

Cam 40...We're working on the standards now. We'll post the written standards and scans of FTs, just miss FTs, and non-FTs soon...David

mnmcoin · March 11, 2003 3:19PM

I think he is ignoring my question

mo <><

TomB · March 11, 2003 3:23PM

<< We're working on the standards now. >>

Wow! I would think that you would already have the standards written and through troubleshooting before you would even mention it!

dragon · March 11, 2003 3:24PM

Who cares about torches anyways??? How about a meaningful designation like DCAM on DMPL Morgans?

gmarguli · March 11, 2003 3:32PM

Or how about PL/DMPL on coins other than Morgans.

Monstavet · March 11, 2003 3:36PM

Now that makes some sense...PCGS does the right thing.

Cam40 · March 11, 2003 3:37PM

Ya Like PL Zincolns........

Cam40 · March 11, 2003 3:44PM

Yeeeep.Gotta feel sorry for those Buffalo collectors.Yep,They get the Full-Horn.And we all know how painful THAT can be...
BUT You Know.............DAAAAAAVVVVEEEEE.

Hit it Paul.

relayer · March 11, 2003 4:29PM

How about our type set rosies?

onlyroosies · March 11, 2003 4:57PM

Wow!! This really helps out. I just listed my silver set a month ago and my clad set two days ago, I also updated my silver and clad
set's yesterday. Talk about timing.

Baley · March 11, 2003 5:18PM

the FT designation, or at least wider recognition of it in the market, is something I've been looking forward to for a while now, since a full torch usually indicates a full overall strike off of mostly newish dies, and certainly makes for a more eye-appealing Roosie. In sorting Bu rolls, I always weeded out the weaker strikes and marked up coins first, gotten rid of those and kept only the mark free and FT ones, since these are little bitty coins, any marks at all that you can see with your naked eyes wipe out any hopes of it being Superb, and so does lack of torch lines, bands, flame details, and knob base.

i am curious at those who knock the prospect of additional designations. If they don't like it, they don't have to buy into it. nobody makes you collect.

I do agree with what several have written on here, that at some point if you get too many different designations, maybe it could just be Full Strike or not for all coins, but that does beg the question of why not Full Luster or not, Original Surfaces or not, Natural (looking) Color or not, etc etc.

perhaps a higher class of service, with each additional designation requested costing a certain amount for consideration, which of course the designation is never guaranteed just by paying the fee, the coin has to deserve it.

jeffnpcb · March 11, 2003 7:15PM

Yeah, but what about proof cams! I've seen proofs that weren't struck that well! I have seen proof Franklins that didn't have full bell lines! Not to mention the Roosevelts I sent in to be crossed,but were just sent back!
I should have cracked tose out and sent them in mylar flips!!
Just letting a little flaming air out!!!

Steve27 · March 11, 2003 8:35PM

This is very unfair to anyone who has a slabbed Rosevelt but doesn't have a registry set (how about the Rosevelts in type sets).

MadMonk · March 11, 2003 9:23PM

Now that's the way to provide Customer Satisfaction!
Kudos to DH

Cameo CC · March 11, 2003 10:11PM

Sounds good - can't wait till we see the standards.

Todd

itsnotjustme · March 11, 2003 10:30PM

I wish all my Roosies were in a Roosevelt Registry Set. I have many registered between type sets and SMS sets, but none in Roosie Sets.

But still a generous offer!

Datentype · March 11, 2003 11:53PM

Sounds like a bunch of needless fingerprints and "breaths/contamination" on the coins to me!!

VonZipper · March 11, 2003 11:58PM

Datentype,

You always have a lot of nice coins for sale, I just don't have enough money.Have bought some from you and always nice. Since you sell alot of PCGS coins are you having problems with fingerprints etc., just curious.

Datentype · March 12, 2003 12:13AM

VonZipper,

I'm glad that you have liked the coins! I guess i'm being slightly negative but everytime a coin is handled it increases the chance of prints and breaths to kill the coin. I have seen them pretty much grade only full torch coins ms67 and ms68 anyway.

Bear · March 12, 2003 12:23AM

If Moses came down from the mountain top again ,with the 10 commandments,

40% of this Forum would complain that it was too many. Forty % would complain it was too few.

20% would applaud him for trying to do the right thing. Many of the Forum members should

be movie critics. Then you could get paid for your continual negetive attitudes and cynical

observations. As Freud said," sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Of course you could always

go to France, they seem to share a common bond in such negetive hostility.

Datentype · March 12, 2003 12:30AM

Bear,

A cigar is just a cigar and a print is just a print and a blue hazy contaminated coin is just that. I know, I know but you can not tell me that it will not happen!

Datentype · March 12, 2003 12:33AM

As far as France goes, I say we bomb France and take their wine instaed of bomb the desert and take their oil.

g097103 · March 12, 2003 12:39AM

Bear, PCGS has brought a lot of the cynical attitude on themselves through their own actions or inactions. I'll wait and
see. Personally I don't really care as I don't send any coins to them nor do I purchase PCGS slabs as a rule. I prefer
NGC.

Datentype · March 12, 2003 12:44AM

g097103

I hear you! Why send your coins to PCGS when you can send them to other places, like NGC and get 1 to 2 grades higher and better service or any service at all!!! Meanwhile, the invoices stack up at PCGS for me. I see you use the forum for PCGS though? Hmmmmmmmm........

VonZipper · March 12, 2003 12:50AM

Datentype- 
Good point.

Bear- <As Freud said," sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". >

A problem is still a PROBLEM. Have a jelly donut on me.

Don't get me wrong I only use PCGS and like the grading (most of the time), but I have been posting on this forum for the past few weeks about the quality control problems being addressed to no avail. If this problem can be fixed or controlled then it will only help PCGS. Many ways have been discussed about what to do but in this forum but that's as far as it has gone. I still won't send in proofs until this is resolved and hopefully David Hall will address it soon.I'm not bashing them just want some response about the problem!!!

g097103 · March 12, 2003 12:59AM

Datentype,
I consider the slab to be a glorified holder. The grade is someones opinion, the only opinion that counts is mine because
I have to like the coin. I only slab proofs.
As to the forum, that is neither here nor there.

dorkkarl · March 12, 2003 1:06AM

<< i am curious at those who knock the prospect of additional designations. If they don't like it, they don't have to buy into it. >>

baloney, you bet we do. why? because morons otherwise known as dealer-wannabes will be wasting big bucks submitting borderline coins, then have to make up for their losses by raising overall prices. to think that something as monumentally stupid as this has no impact on those who don't care is pollyanna-ish.

full-torch my foot. full-vomit is about how i feel about this.

alot of idiots are going to be "fulled" by this scam. gee, after the freebie period , i guess it'll cost the regular 25 bucks to get 'em reholdered, right?

"fool-torch" would be more accurate.

K S

NumisEd · March 12, 2003 1:11AM

How about FN (full nostril) for buffalo nickels?

Bear · March 12, 2003 1:19AM

Why dont we take the wine and the oil????

I never said that PCGS was perfect or that that they hadnt dropped the

ball for a long time. What I did say is they seem to have woken up from a deep

sleep, looked around and said this is not good. We have to make some changes

and quickley. I applaud the move to make those changes, not the sloth that allowed

the imperfections to exist for so long. Bear

dorkkarl · March 12, 2003 1:22AM

so now, the $350 MILLION you've spent on slabs has earned you: the privilege to have pcgs tell you your roosevelt dimes have a full torch.

oh boy.

K S

Russ · March 12, 2003 1:23AM

Some people would bitch if they got hung with a new rope.

Russ, NCNE

Baley · March 12, 2003 1:26AM

geez karl, you go on and on about the 350 million dollars that slabbing fees have "wasted" in the coin market, but you completely ignore all the money spent on coin books, coin albums, coin holders, and all the other coin supplies that make it a more efficient market. If you really think that the encapsulation of coins and their protection and documentation as to their qualities is a negative influence to the hobby, on that subject we're on such polar extremes that there isn't much more to say. good day sir!

jom · March 12, 2003 1:31AM

<< documentation as to their qualities >>

??????

Grade and quality are NOT the same thing.

Documentation? What documentation? Before or after the coin was cracked out 300 times?

jom

Datentype · March 12, 2003 1:33AM

Bear, you're right, let's take the wine and the oil but get a designated driver to take us to coin shows!

dorkkarl · March 12, 2003 1:34AM

<< geez karl, you go on and on about the 350 million dollars that slabbing fees have "wasted" in the coin market, but you completely ignore all the money spent on coin books, coin albums, coin holders, and all the other coin supplies that make it a more efficient market. >>

$350 MILLION would buy a he11uva lot of books.

<< If you really think that the encapsulation of coins ...a negative influence to the hobby, on that subject we're on such polar extremes that there isn't much more to say. >>

encapsulation is fine, it's the manipulative marketing of such that is a negative on the hobby. however, i'd gladly agree that the marketing is a enormously positive influence - on the business. i guess when money talks, coins get slabed.

K S

Baley · March 12, 2003 1:37AM

jom, I refer to the fact that the encapsulation of a coin provides a reasonably accurate opinion as to the grade of the piece. [insert disclaimer here, which acknowledges that grading is subjective, but that reminds the reader that the subjective opinion is based on a set of "industry standards"]

this reasonably accurate opinion as to the grade of the piece assists both the buyer and seller in making an informed decision. they must still make the decision, but the slab that encases a coin comes with the purchase, increasing the efficiency with which a coin can be traded, because it doesn't have to be rediscribed over and over by each seller, and the neutral third party opinion travels with the coin.

Is it a perfect system? no.
Is it better than nothing? yes.
does it continue to evolve? yes.
will biching and moaning about it do any good?
your call

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · March 12, 2003 1:41AM

Hello Roosevelt dime collectors

Can someone tell me if anyone has previously designated "Full Torch Roosevelt dimes".I have never heard of such a thing.Is this a David Hall Invention ?Do all dates come with a full torch ?

If it was up to me I would designate "Full Flaming Torch".That title would mean alot more.

Stewart

Morris - stop whining

DenverCoin · March 12, 2003 4:00AM

If someone can post pictures of FT and non-FT of the same grade, I would appreciate it, and I'm sure others would too.

Thanks,
John

Hoot · March 12, 2003 4:34AM

Hey David, why not answer my question asked on one of your other threads on this subject?

Homerun - Why allow only those who are top in the registry to resubmit for free designation? Why not have a reasonable time period - say 1 year - where anyone with a PCGS slabbed Roosie prior to your institution of this designation (I'm sure your database records the date they were slabbed) can submit for the FT designation? Only seems fair.

Hoot

wallstreetman · March 12, 2003 4:41AM

Boy, how many times has NGC made an offer like this?

keithdagen · March 12, 2003 4:49AM

There are 46 1946-1964 Roosevelt sets and 27 1965 to date Roosevlt sets in the PCGS Set Registry. PCGS will review for Full Torch designation and reholder any of the coins in those sets FOR FREE so long as the owners submitt them by 6-30-03.

How about the 49 Complete Type Set, 44 Copper, Silver, Nickel Type Set, 37 20th Century Type Major MS, 38 20th Century Type Major Combined, 24 20th Century Type Variety MS, 44 20th Century Type Variety Combined, 38 Modern Type MS, or 30 Modern Type Combined sets?

Do they qualify as well, since a Roosevelt Dime is a required piece for each of those sets?

Hoot · March 12, 2003 4:50AM

Boy, how many times has NGC made an offer like this?

Are you asking how many wrongs make a right? This is not about PCGS vs. NGC. This is about what PCGS is doing - get it? If NGC decides to follow suit, we'll have to wait and see what their policies and responses will be. One thing for sure: NGC has a policy of customer care that is unparalelled in the industry, and they respond to questions.

Hoot

DAM · March 12, 2003 5:18AM

How about the 49 Complete Type Set, 44 Copper, Silver, Nickel Type Set, 37 20th Century Type Major MS, 38 20th Century Type Major Combined, 24 20th Century Type Variety MS, 44 20th Century Type Variety Combined, 38 Modern Type MS, or 30 Modern Type Combined sets?

Good question Keith. I was reviewing this thread to see if that question was asked. It doesn't seem fair not to. Perhaps it was just an oversight. Especially in light of the standards not being established yet. If you get a response, how about listing it on the Set Registry Forum for others to see that might not wander over here.

mnmcoin · March 12, 2003 2:15PM

<< Hello Roosevelt dime collectors

Can someone tell me if anyone has previously designated "Full Torch Roosevelt dimes".I have never heard of such a thing.Is this a David Hall Invention ?Do all dates come with a full torch ?

If it was up to me I would designate "Full Flaming Torch".That title would mean alot more.

Stewart

Morris - stop whining >>

"Full Flaming Torch" Yah, and Stuart could be the poster boy for the full flaming torch club.

Stuart, if I can't whine what else am I going to do? Send more 68dcam 71 Linconls in to get 66dcam?!?

morris <><

ps, just because someone is whining doesn't mean there isn't a good reason (sorry if that doesn't make sense...just got from disneyland with my two boys 6 and 4 and my two neices 4 and 2...it was a long day)

Announcements Part 5: Free Full Torch designation

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