<< <i>I think he is referring to the seal on the back which should be folded on top and bottom instead of the sides iirc. >>
Correct. It is well known that GAI goofed on a number of '58 cellos during this era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
from '57-'61 it is generally agreed that Topps produced cellos with a back seal with the folds sealed top-bottom...not side/side like the one listed.
I say "generally" because there is at least 1 anomaly.
In '57 Topps also produced cello packs with the word "Guild" on the wrapper--which has seals side/side, not top/bottom.
Everyone agrees that the Guild cellos are legit--though they have the "wrong" seal. There is not much more info on these Guild cellos. I was always of the opinion that no one can know for sure. If 1 pack exists with legit side/side seals--why not others?
GAI did slab many packs from these years with side/side seals that are questionable--like the one you posted
Good to see that someone is trying to safeguard the hobby by watching over some bad unopened items that are up for sale. It's nice to have this as backup to the best authenticator out there - Steve Hart! With his seal of approval on unopened plus the outstanding efforts of this good Samaritan, nothing can go wrong.
I can rest easy knowing the interests of us collectors are #1.
Manny---- A few years ago a major, major buyer of unopened material (who usually opens it too) told me they bought a box of 1957 Topps baseball second series cello packs. All the packs were from series 2. He sent me some scans of the packs and they all had the wrong seal. Each and every pack had the wrong seal. I told him that I had doubts about the box. Each one of the packs was wrapped like the "Guild Cellos" we know about. Anyway, he showed me packs that had stars on top, including Mantle. Well, we know that resealed packs are made quite a bit with HOF'ers on top, to make them look more legit. He then proceeded to open about half the packs. He wrote down the sequence for the packs as he was opening them. If I remember correctly, he told me that Kaline was the card underneath the Mantle. He sent in a large group of the cards to PSA and got many 9's and 10's, HOF'ers included. He then opened the pack with Kaline on back and sure enough, the card above Kaline was Mantle, which I believe he got a 9 (OC) on.
Therefore, we can conclude 2 things.
1) The box was a resealed homemade box. However, someone left a lot of money on the table by resealing them incorrectly and using MINT cards, with Mantles, to get this box by him. 2) Like you said, why would Topps only make the "Guild Cellos" with the different seal and not other packs?
This person then asked me to slab the remaining packs, including a killer one with a centered Mantle on top. I told him that I would not slab the packs at that time. I assumed it would do nothing but cause controversy, since the knowledge out there was that cello packs (in clear cellophane) with this incorrect seal were all fakes. In fact, I still wont slab them as authentic. Perception can be worse than fact sometimes. I told him until I get more proof, that he will just have to keep them raw. However, getting that kind of proof would consist of maybe a sealed case? Maybe information from Topps (Yeah, right)? Maybe an untouched find from an old grocery store? Therefore, it is very unlikely that we will ever know the truth/fact about these.
So basically, this story has given us more confusion about the issue! I guess that's what keeps us fascinated with unopened material!
Perhaps I should refer this thread to the two members that PM'd me and said my '59 FB Paker/Taylor cello that I had offered in the BST was bogus because it had the "wrong" seal...
<< <i>Perhaps I should refer this thread to the two members that PM'd me and said my '59 FB Paker/Taylor cello that I had offered in the BST was bogus because it had the "wrong" seal...
>>
That's actually the correct seal you should see on cello packs from that era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>That's actually the correct seal you should see on cello packs from that era. >>
Yes, I was aware of that. However, some of the pitchfork crew seemed to feel otherwise. The paranoia and hysteria they exhibited without any basis of factual evidence was laughable and most probably because of Jose's packs. This being a vintage cello with two HOF RC's showing only raised their dander.
I remember that '57 box and I too talked with that same buyer soon after he made that purchase, and was most skeptical about those packs. But when I heard of the MINT singles being pulled - and not just minor stars and commons - it really gave me pause as I too always known '57 thru '61 cello packs were sealed at the short ends - not side to side. (with the exception of the '57 Guild cello) This box also came from The Baseball Card Kid whom, at the time, was still the king of vintage unopened. This was a huge slap to my face as I've handled vintage unopened material for 30+ years. So, is this the one exception to that rule?? That said....I agree - the '58 Drysdale pack is NOT a legit cello pack. The '59 football cello is. Another key thing to look for are the serrated edges on the wrapper at the seal....you can clearly see them on the back of the '59 cello....some packs they're more prominent than others, but this is another key thing to look for even on those packs with the 'correct seal'. It's tough out there - and those backroom pack making snakes are getting so much better at their illicit act, so we need to work together to ensure what you buy - whether in a holder or not - is in fact, the real deal.
Steve--thanks for chimming in on the '57 cellos--interesting story on the box rip. Not sure I would have had the stones.....certainly not the cash to do that.
I cam imagine his face when you saids "no" you won't slab the rest.
Baez578
Posts: 967 ✭✭✭
Comments
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>I think he is referring to the seal on the back which should be folded on top and bottom instead of the sides iirc. >>
Correct. It is well known that GAI goofed on a number of '58 cellos during this era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I say "generally" because there is at least 1 anomaly.
In '57 Topps also produced cello packs with the word "Guild" on the wrapper--which has seals side/side, not top/bottom.
Everyone agrees that the Guild cellos are legit--though they have the "wrong" seal. There is not much more info on these Guild cellos. I was always of the opinion that no one can know for sure. If 1 pack exists with legit side/side seals--why not others?
GAI did slab many packs from these years with side/side seals that are questionable--like the one you posted
<< <i>Saw this today on the other forum
OP says the seal is way off. Thoughts?
1958 cello eBay >>
Good to see that someone is trying to safeguard the hobby by watching over some bad unopened items that are up for sale.
It's nice to have this as backup to the best authenticator out there - Steve Hart! With his seal of approval on unopened plus
the outstanding efforts of this good Samaritan, nothing can go wrong.
I can rest easy knowing the interests of us collectors are #1.
God bless!
aconte
A few years ago a major, major buyer of unopened material (who usually opens it too) told me they bought a box of 1957 Topps baseball second series cello packs. All the packs were from series 2. He sent me some scans of the packs and they all had the wrong seal. Each and every pack had the wrong seal. I told him that I had doubts about the box. Each one of the packs was wrapped like the "Guild Cellos" we know about. Anyway, he showed me packs that had stars on top, including Mantle. Well, we know that resealed packs are made quite a bit with HOF'ers on top, to make them look more legit. He then proceeded to open about half the packs. He wrote down the sequence for the packs as he was opening them. If I remember correctly, he told me that Kaline was the card underneath the Mantle. He sent in a large group of the cards to PSA and got many 9's and 10's, HOF'ers included. He then opened the pack with Kaline on back and sure enough, the card above Kaline was Mantle, which I believe he got a 9 (OC) on.
Therefore, we can conclude 2 things.
1) The box was a resealed homemade box. However, someone left a lot of money on the table by resealing them incorrectly and using MINT cards, with Mantles, to get this box by him.
2) Like you said, why would Topps only make the "Guild Cellos" with the different seal and not other packs?
This person then asked me to slab the remaining packs, including a killer one with a centered Mantle on top. I told him that I would not slab the packs at that time. I assumed it would do nothing but cause controversy, since the knowledge out there was that cello packs (in clear cellophane) with this incorrect seal were all fakes. In fact, I still wont slab them as authentic. Perception can be worse than fact sometimes. I told him until I get more proof, that he will just have to keep them raw. However, getting that kind of proof would consist of maybe a sealed case? Maybe information from Topps (Yeah, right)? Maybe an untouched find from an old grocery store? Therefore, it is very unlikely that we will ever know the truth/fact about these.
So basically, this story has given us more confusion about the issue! I guess that's what keeps us fascinated with unopened material!
<< <i>Perhaps I should refer this thread to the two members that PM'd me and said my '59 FB Paker/Taylor cello that I had offered in the BST was bogus because it had the "wrong" seal...
That's actually the correct seal you should see on cello packs from that era.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>That's actually the correct seal you should see on cello packs from that era. >>
Yes, I was aware of that. However, some of the pitchfork crew seemed to feel otherwise. The paranoia and hysteria they exhibited without any basis of factual evidence was laughable and most probably because of Jose's packs. This being a vintage cello with two HOF RC's showing only raised their dander.
That said....I agree - the '58 Drysdale pack is NOT a legit cello pack. The '59 football cello is. Another key thing to look for are the serrated edges on the wrapper at the seal....you can clearly see them on the back of the '59 cello....some packs they're more prominent than others, but this is another key thing to look for even on those packs with the 'correct seal'. It's tough out there - and those backroom pack making snakes are getting so much better at their illicit act, so we need to work together to ensure what you buy - whether in a holder or not - is in fact, the real deal.
I cam imagine his face when you saids "no" you won't slab the rest.