Counterfeit PCGS slab on eBay? 1916-D Merc

Patches · May 8, 2012 9:19AM

What do you all think of this 1916-D Mercury Dime - PCGS XF-40? auction listing on eBay? The font doesn't look right to me. And it's the usual blurry image, low feedback, commonly counterfeited coin that all makes me suspicious.

commoncents05 · May 8, 2012 9:20AM

I agree, looks fake to me as well.

-Paul

braddick · May 8, 2012 9:23AM

Good call.
You're right. It's no good.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 9:24AM

Not a valid cert number comes back.

Kaelasdad · May 8, 2012 9:24AM

I have no idea, but I hate seeing a newbie selling a key date--real or not

mrpotatoheadd · May 8, 2012 9:30AM

According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

COIN INFORMATION

Cert Verification #: 18041741
PCGS Coin #: 4906
Date, mintmark: 1916-D
Denomination: 10C
Country: The United States of America
Grade: XF40
Mintage: 264,000
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $5,750
Holder Type: Standard
Population: 87

123cents · May 8, 2012 9:32AM

Check again, the number is valid.

fcloud · May 8, 2012 9:34AM

<< Not a valid cert number comes back. >>

yes it does.

For those who say it is fake, please be specific, so we can all learn. I don't understand why you say fake.

According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

COIN INFORMATION
Cert Verification #: 18041741
PCGS Coin #: 4906
Date, mintmark: 1916-D
Denomination: 10C
Country: The United States of America
Grade: XF40
Mintage: 264,000
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $5,750
Holder Type: Standard
Population: 87

Auction Appearances of This Coin

None known

Current PCGS Registry Sets

None

coinbuf · May 8, 2012 9:35AM

<< Not a valid cert number comes back. >>

I just checked the cert and it came up with the correct coin and grade??

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 9:36AM

<< Check again, the number is valid. >>

Yep , id copied and pasted the first time.

derryb · May 8, 2012 9:36AM

gonna take more than "blurry image" and "low feedback" to make it a counterfeit slab.

Patches · May 8, 2012 9:37AM

<< 

<< Not a valid cert number comes back. >>

yes it does.

For those who say it is fake, please be specific, so we can all learn. I don't understand why you say fake.

According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

COIN INFORMATION
Cert Verification #: 18041741
PCGS Coin #: 4906
Date, mintmark: 1916-D
Denomination: 10C
Country: The United States of America
Grade: XF40
Mintage: 264,000
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $5,750
Holder Type: Standard
Population: 87

Auction Appearances of This Coin

None known

Current PCGS Registry Sets

None >>

I started this thread looking for opinions solely based on the font on the blue insert looks off to me, and the question that always surrounds this coin on eBay. I really hope I am wrong, and would like someone to step in with more knowledge than I on just a hunch.

fcloud · May 8, 2012 9:41AM

the blue color on the slab can simply be the white balance on the digital camera being off.

I still would like the people who think it is fake to educate me.

Patches · May 8, 2012 9:43AM

Here is a side by side comparison of the sellers photo vs a genuine image from Heritage:

The spacing and the height of some of the fonts don't seem to match well.

JamesM · May 8, 2012 9:44AM

barcode is to tall

mingot · May 8, 2012 9:45AM

doh. thought comparison photo was supposed to be the same coin.

cmerlo1 · May 8, 2012 9:48AM

The barcode is almost overlapping the numbers in the seller image.

fcloud · May 8, 2012 9:55AM

Does PCGS ever change labels, or have they always been the same?

Constantine · May 8, 2012 9:56AM

<< The barcode is almost overlapping the numbers in the seller image. >>

I have seen that before on other PCGS slabs (where the bar code looks like it is touching the numbers).

cmerlo1 · May 8, 2012 10:00AM

<< 

<< The barcode is almost overlapping the numbers in the seller image. >>

I have seen that before on other PCGS slabs (where the bar code looks like it is touching the numbers). >>

Hopefully I'm wrong! It has bidders...

LindeDad · May 8, 2012 10:02AM

I can't see an obvious tell that it's fake so can not report it at this time.

But I also don't like the red flags so not bidding either.

123cents · May 8, 2012 10:05AM

<< I can't see an obvious tell that it's fake so can not report it at this time.

But I also don't like the red flags so not bidding either.

>>

fcloud · May 8, 2012 10:07AM

I did an ebay for other PCGS coins and found other tall barcodes, so for me you need better info to convince me it is fake.

coinbuf · May 8, 2012 10:49AM

I see no reason to worry about it being fake, the pics are bad and taken at an angle so things like a tall barcode look worse. I'd be more worried about a 2 feedback seller selling a 5K coin, like does he actually own the coin??

coinman23885 · May 8, 2012 10:49AM

<< What do you all think of this 1916-D Mercury Dime - PCGS XF-40? auction listing on eBay? The font doesn't look right to me. And it's the usual blurry image, low feedback, commonly counterfeited coin that all makes me suspicious. >>

I agree the font looks off, and the small (and poor quality) photographs make it difficult to examine the coin itself. I have reported the coin twice - one as a potential counterfeit slab and the other as attempting to dodge eBay fees by accepting offers. If the former doesn't work, eBay should at least care about the latter.

steveben · May 8, 2012 10:55AM

i think it looks legit.

Kove · May 8, 2012 11:12AM

The slab label is not right. The serial number (1804xxxx) is within the last couple of years, but PCGS has not used that font spacing. The letter and number spacing is much too far apart (compare to the earlier slab 1016xxxx shown above, as well as any recent slab, and note the font spacing). I have seen that wide font spacing used on known fake slabs before.

I do not know if the coin is real or fake.
I do not know if the plastic is real or fake.
But I do know that the label is not right.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 11:16AM

The level of the reserve if it's met should be quite telling.

michiganboy · May 8, 2012 11:26AM

<< 

<< What do you all think of this 1916-D Mercury Dime - PCGS XF-40? auction listing on eBay? The font doesn't look right to me. And it's the usual blurry image, low feedback, commonly counterfeited coin that all makes me suspicious. >>

I agree the font looks off, and the small (and poor quality) photographs make it difficult to examine the coin itself. I have reported the coin twice - one as a potential counterfeit slab and the other as attempting to dodge eBay fees by accepting offers. If the former doesn't work, eBay should at least care about the latter.[/q

Just cause someone says they will accept offers does not mean they are dodging ebay fees, I shot people offers on coins with no best offer option, then had the seller just put it a buy it now at my offer price and tell me and I grab it up. I've paid more sometimes then the final auction would of been just to get the coin I want with out the head ache of watching it or getting super sniped. I feel it works out for all parties involved including Ebay. I don't report unless I know its a fake, and that slab to me is hard to tell, but the coin from the pics kinda looks close to the grade example show in comparison being the pictures are to small to make out for sure.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 11:42AM

I dont think its a scam , i took the bidding up to 1275 and still the reserve isnt met.Seems a scammer would set his sights low or have no reserve.Yes , i know its a 5k coin , but im thinking if its a known to be fake by the seller it might not have a high reserve.

Moldnut · May 8, 2012 11:58AM

I have a question. Can the good people here at PCGS chime in and say if this holder is ok from the sellers pics?

michiganboy · May 8, 2012 12:20PM

Well I searched the heritage archives to see if I could find a match on the cert. number but it never sold there. I know that was a big if but have seen where the cert numbers are stolen from there to put on fake slabs and thought I take a look. I think it would be cool if PCGS listed the actual holder type by generations instead of just standard or what ever else pops up being standard is what I always get in the holder type section.

joebb21 · May 8, 2012 12:45PM

Common fake. Font and barcode off.
Notice the spacing in betweent the letters and numbers.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 12:54PM

If its fake the seller has nerves of steel , its up over 3k and still the reserve isnt met.Maybe the seller doesnt know its fake

GRANDAM · May 8, 2012 1:05PM

I don't know

Grandam

Timbuk3 · May 8, 2012 1:23PM

MsMorrisine · May 8, 2012 1:39PM

I'm leaning toward the label is real, but the picture is so wonky, I'm not 100% sure.

Cougar1978 · May 8, 2012 1:58PM

Its up to 21 bids for $3800 the seller is going to bank. Who in the world would pay this kind of big ticket money on this from a seller with only 2 FB?

LanceNewmanOCC · May 8, 2012 2:01PM

.
with a reserve that low, seems like a "bait" price.
.

stealer · May 8, 2012 2:14PM

I wonder if Mark or someone else is bidding up the auction like they used to do.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 2:24PM

<< .
with a reserve that low, seems like a "bait" price.

. >>

Thats what i was waiting to see , id taken it up to 3k and figured its going to be a legit reserve , i didnt expect to see i was so close and its as low.

Coinlearner · May 8, 2012 2:47PM

Ask the seller a question or two on it's history, when/where he bought it and to post answer in listing,to show buyers that he's not selling junk. He sold a 300 note with no problem. Not everyone buys/sells Indian cents to get feedback up there.

JamesMurray · May 8, 2012 3:27PM

<< Ask the seller a question or two on it's history, when/where he bought it and to post answer in listing,to show buyers that he's not selling junk. He sold a 300 note with no problem. Not everyone buys/sells Indian cents to get feedback up there. >>

Yeah .. ok , will do

MsMorrisine · May 8, 2012 3:33PM

and if it is grandpa?

streeter · May 8, 2012 3:47PM

One previous fake 16-d that came out of the BAY AREA was a real cert # with a fake coin in fake plastic.

MO: buy a real coin and then crack it and save the cert. Install that cert and fake coin in fake plastic.

You'd need close ups of the mint mark and you are not going to get them from this lad.

This auction is a good example of why ebay needs to hold back funds from new sellers.

MsMorrisine · May 8, 2012 3:53PM

<< This auction is a good example of why ebay needs to hold back funds from new sellers. >>

that is new policy coming into effect. on th other hand, some say it is already done in circumstances like this.

Coinlearner · May 8, 2012 4:00PM

Seller will not get any money until feedback is left. Was 50 feedback(Maybe 100 now) to lift freezes.Paypal has restrictions on new accounts.

Alltheabove76 · May 8, 2012 9:04PM

The spacing looks wrong, but just too hard to say for sure. I think a buyer has little risk. Paypal wont release funds till the matter is settled and if it is fake, the buyer will get their money back. Not much risk really and perhaps a chance to get it cheaper than you could otherwise.

Alltheabove76 · May 8, 2012 9:09PM

I think its legit. It would be very unfair for this to get yanked unless someone at PCGS says its fake.

michiganboy · May 9, 2012 2:49AM

Well I wrote him and asked for beter pictures and this is what he said.

Thanks advise And i will try what you said about taking picturesMy dad just passed last week and i am here taking care of what needs to be done.Before i have listed any of the coins here on ebay i have had the coins looked at to make sure is npo problems with any thing i put up here .And see i can see your point in the good pictures what some of these coins go for that i now own are very big money and i;d want the best pictures i could get spending that kind of money
Have a good evening
Adam

Edited to add he added better pictures of the coin and slab, it looks legit to me but I am by far an expert on plastic or label fonts and still no good reverse shot so I don't really know. Mercury Dimes are not my series, but you guys take a look now and tell us what you think.

segoja · May 9, 2012 3:12AM

Why does everyone use the "someone died" line. It seems like that is a tell.

If the slab is fake getting pics of the mintmark won't help. They take a real 1916-P Dime and marry it to a 1917-D or other "D" mint reverse. The coin will look real.

Cut the slab in half, and out come 2 machined 1/2 dimes..trust me I've done it with some rare dates (thanks goodness the coins weren't mine)

Counterfeit PCGS slab on eBay? 1916-D Merc

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