UPDATE*2012 Benjamin Harrison P DDO? HUGE UPDATED PICS for the NAY-sayers

Bodin · April 28, 2013 1:28PM

I figured that I would try asking here as I usually post ATS, but wanted to get some input on this:

Going through a box of 2012 P Benjamin Harrison $1s, I came across really bold lettering on "Harrison". I looked closer and noticed that all the lettering around the coin was quite bold. There were 3 of these found in the box. Any thoughts friends?
I put a regular coin above each pic for comparison....

***U P D A T E D_ P I C S ******** Courtesy of Lance

_________________________________________________________________
** ORIGINAL PICS ****

LanceNewmanOCC · April 28, 2013 2:25PM

.
looks like a strong candidate for a ddo but can't confirm 100% as the images are too blurry for micro-analysis, at least or me anyway

send one to me and i'll image it and provide you with large crisp images like you wouldn't believe

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Unknown · April 28, 2013 3:11PM

This content has been removed.

Bodin · April 28, 2013 3:18PM

Lance, PM me the address.

Also, should I send one to CONECA? I've never done that before. Do you have to pay for them to review it?

LanceNewmanOCC · April 28, 2013 3:37PM

<< Also, should I send one to CONECA? I've never done that before. Do you have to pay for them to review it? >>

1

2

3 - 20/21st century die varieties. contact them first

JW also has his own site. he is the second one listed on the coneca page for 20/21st century die varieties

pm sent
.

Bodin · April 28, 2013 6:27PM

Thanks for the links!

ricko · April 28, 2013 11:39PM

Definitely a difference... the first one looks like shelf doubling.... the others just look 'fatter'... Cheers, RickO

Papi · April 29, 2013 2:37AM

Definitely a DDO, strong extra thickness.

How about pics of his face?

Bodin · April 29, 2013 7:09AM

I just sent one off to Lance for photography and one to James Wilkes to have it verified.
I'll follow up when there is more info.

LanceNewmanOCC · May 1, 2013 5:53AM

.
here is a preview for one of his possible ddo coins. the evidence is compelling.

keyman64 · May 1, 2013 7:51AM

Too minor to matter but I vote shelf/mechanical/machine doubling. I do not see split serifs...does anyone else?...of course I am on my iPhone right now.

dlmtorts · May 1, 2013 8:32AM

I certainly am not an expert, but I'm not seeing it either.

LanceNewmanOCC · May 1, 2013 8:42AM

<< Too minor to matter but I vote shelf/mechanical/machine doubling. I do not see split serifs...does anyone else?...of course I am on my iPhone right now. >>

there are quite a few ddo/ddr where serifs aren't split (at least not w/o hundreds of times magnification and possibly some w/o splits at all) and are recognizable by the thickness of the lettering/numbers/devices. i concur about not seeing split serifs on this example though although the example in the OP looks as though it may have splits. i think i received a different example to image.

also, something i've been thinking about recently. if you were to actually measure the distance of the doubling, keeping the split serif part of the equation, doubling like this is actually far greater in distance than most other ddo/ddr but usually aren't as appealing to our taste as we usually prefer to see the split serifs. generally speaking.

i think at this period in time for making our coinage, to have any ddr/ddo etc is kind of a big deal although i don't get into them. after the 1995 doubling debacle, there were measures taken to prevent doubling, although i don't see that ever truly happening.
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2manycoins2fewfunds · May 1, 2013 8:55AM

Worn die....

richbeat · May 1, 2013 12:48PM

Since going to the single squeeze method of making dies, this is one type of DDO/R that is being seen now. It would have to be examined, but this may be one.

Type2 · May 2, 2013 12:57AM

Very cool i would send it in it's only $$$ good eye keep up the good work.

Manorcourtman · May 2, 2013 1:46AM

Even with Lance's awesome Billboard sized pics I don't see anything! Maybe some minor mechanical doubling.

halfhunter · May 2, 2013 3:38AM

Does the rest of the coin look "mushy"?
I've seen thick lettering before that was attributed to die wear . . .

HH

LanceNewmanOCC · May 2, 2013 3:55AM

.
there is an example with james wiles for examination/attribution, so we'll find out for sure soon enough

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Papi · May 2, 2013 4:28AM

<< Worn die.... >>

A worn die would not display uniform thickness on all the lettering; even the hair is thicker

This is a nice example of a single squeeze DDO. I want one

Bodin · May 3, 2013 9:43AM

Lance, thank you for taking great pictures and posting them.
I will post the findings by James Wiles as soon as I hear back.

Bodin · May 6, 2013 12:05PM

From James Wiles:

Congratulations on a nice DDO!
It is now listed in the CONECA files as DDO-001, 1-O-VI, EDS.
This is a class VI doubled die, caused by overuse of the hub, which begin to flatten under the pressure of hubbing.

= SUCCESS (James didn't write this part)

LanceNewmanOCC · May 6, 2013 12:33PM

<< From James Wiles: >>

cha-ching and congratulations. glad you sent it to me for photography. it was a pleasure to view your class VI DDO!!!
is it the first reported?
.

Constantine · May 6, 2013 1:48PM

<< From James Wiles:

Congratulations on a nice DDO!
It is now listed in the CONECA files as DDO-001, 1-O-VI, EDS.
This is a class VI doubled die, caused by overuse of the hub, which begin to flatten under the pressure of hubbing.

= SUCCESS (James didn't write this part) >>

Very nice, congrats

Bodin · May 6, 2013 6:15PM

<< 

<< From James Wiles: >>

cha-ching and congratulations. glad you sent it to me for photography. it was a pleasure to view your class VI DDO!!!
is it the first reported?
. >>

It is the first!
It is off to ANACS for "discovery" attribution and slabbing.
Thanks again Lance for great photos

Papi · May 7, 2013 3:02AM

Class VI Doubled Dies

Wexler "Whatever is causing the Class VI doubled die varieties, it has carried over from the multiple-squeeze hubbing presses to the single-squeeze hubbing presses. We have a number of doubled dies listed for the years after the single-squeeze hubbing presses were introduced. That fact may add credibility to the theory that a tilted hub or die may be a contributing factor to the production of these interesting varieties."

Bodin · July 1, 2013 6:38AM

Check out the "Varieties Notebook" section.

I made it to Coin World, NEAT!

Does anyone receive the Coin World weekly paper in the mail?
If so, could anyone send me a copy? I would love to have an actual issue for bragging to my wife and friends. Something in print other than just showing her on the computer or printing out page 48 from my printer. I'm a newspaper guy!
I'll gladly pay postage. This is exciting for me because I never "discover" anything.
PM me if possible.

LanceNewmanOCC · July 1, 2013 6:42AM

.
please update us if you get a copy. i will look but rather not if you get one before/if i find one.

thanks

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gonzer · July 1, 2013 8:41AM

Congrats on the discovery. That's a first for me; overused hub. Interesting.

oldsubguru · July 1, 2013 10:29PM

Excellent DDO and a great discovery. I had no doubts that it was a doubled die from the beginning images. Congratulations!

joeykoins · July 2, 2013 12:36AM

Very nice! Congrats. See what happens when you do your homework!

messydesk · July 2, 2013 1:52AM

Congrats! Can't believe I missed this the first time around.

cmerlo1 · July 2, 2013 4:09AM

Sure looks like one to me...

LanceNewmanOCC · September 10, 2013 2:38AM

.
just saw this coin listed on variety vista home page. probably been there for a while.
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crypto79 · February 19, 2015 4:11AM

they could put that in the bible and I doubt many extra people would care.

Bodin · February 19, 2015 4:19AM

<< they could put that in the bible and I doubt many extra people would care. >>

OUCH. You're so sweet.

koynekwest · February 19, 2015 10:05AM

<< Congrats on the discovery. That's a first for me; overused hub. Interesting. >>

Properly known as Class VI/"Distended" hub doubling.

Nice discovery BTW.

AUandAG · February 19, 2015 11:37AM

Ok, it's all in the terminology....A worn hub....how is that doubling? Makes absolutely no sense
to my pea brain. There is no doubling, just spreading from a worn hub....

sounds like politician speak.

bob

StrikeOutXXX · February 19, 2015 11:46AM

<< Ok, it's all in the terminology....A worn hub....how is that doubling? Makes absolutely no sense
to my pea brain. There is no doubling, just spreading from a worn hub....

sounds like politician speak.

bob

>>

Haha, you painted a mental image of the Iraqi Information Minister for a moment there.

I like how Mr. Wexler explains it here: Class VI doubling

AUandAG · February 19, 2015 11:49AM

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I'd vote for him for President.....can fool me all day long.

HE says: "On the Class VI doubled die varieties there is frequently very little difference in the relief of the primary and secondary images"

There is no secondary image....it's all one fat image from a worn hub.....

bob

ricko · February 20, 2015 1:21AM

This condition has caused considerable controversy. While it does exist, and has been explained (and great for the individuals that found it), I, personally, will always be more attracted to the 'big ones'...like the '55 DDO or the newly discovered 1919 DDO. Cheers, RickO

coppercoins · February 20, 2015 4:17AM

This is definitely a doubled die, and a very nice one too. Don't be discouraged by those here who don't know the subject and don't understand what they are looking at here.

Bodin · February 20, 2015 9:51AM

<< This condition has caused considerable controversy. While it does exist, and has been explained (and great for the individuals that found it), I, personally, will always be more attracted to the 'big ones'...like the '55 DDO or the newly discovered 1919 DDO. Cheers, RickO >>

I do agree with you Rick, The more dramatic, the better. I will say that this one is special in that the entire peripheral of the coin is offset. Quite dramatic.

Bodin · February 20, 2015 9:52AM

<< This is definitely a doubled die, and a very nice one too. Don't be discouraged by those here who don't know the subject and don't understand what they are looking at here. >>

Thanks. Now, lets all

koynekwest · February 20, 2015 10:17AM

No "nay-saying" here-that's one of the best die hubbing anomalies I've seen in the "single squeeze" era. Many were fearful that the single squeeze process would eliminate hubbing accidents. Happily, this hasn't happened.

Bodin · February 20, 2015 10:27AM

<< No "nay-saying" here-that's one of the best die hubbing anomalies I've seen in the "single squeeze" era. Many were fearful that the single squeeze process would eliminate hubbing accidents. Happily, this hasn't happened. >>

I just think its so dramatic, but there's 2 big problems:
1. its on a Presidential Dollar
2. its on a Presidential Dollar.

Can you imagine the excitement if there was this kind of doubling on a 2014 Lincoln or Washington? HUGE news. IMO, of course

koynekwest · February 20, 2015 10:39AM

A few Lincolns with this type of doubling have been reported. This dollar looks to be naked eye visible and is a nice variety indeed. Of course, the king of the modern era doubled dies is the 2009-D DC quarter. But Presidential dollar or not-I'd like to have one. I imagine any on ebay have been nailed but I will continue to look.

AUandAG · February 20, 2015 11:19AM

Got it with those pics.....Okay I'm on board but will this have any value when you have to
enlarge the pics to dinner plate size to see it?
Nah, of course it will, you're just jealous because you had one and spent it, Bob.

bob

TwoSides2aCoin · February 20, 2015 11:20AM

Good that you keep them eyes focused. It's a special gift to have the fire burning when the rest of the coin world's is extinguished.
Same in the arts/ acting. Keep your nose to the grind.

Bodin · February 20, 2015 12:43PM

<< Got it with those pics.....Okay I'm on board but will this have any value when you have to
enlarge the pics to dinner plate size to see it?
Nah, of course it will, you're just jealous because you had one and spent it, Bob.

bob

>>

Oh, no, this is EASY to spot with the naked eye. No dinner-plate-sized enlargements necessary. Test yourself:
Which one is the DDO? Right or Left?

lostincoins · February 20, 2015 1:02PM

<< 

<< No "nay-saying" here-that's one of the best die hubbing anomalies I've seen in the "single squeeze" era. Many were fearful that the single squeeze process would eliminate hubbing accidents. Happily, this hasn't happened. >>

I just think its so dramatic, but there's 2 big problems:
1. its on a Presidential Dollar
2. its on a Presidential Dollar.

Can you imagine the excitement if there was this kind of doubling on a 2014 Lincoln or Washington? HUGE news. IMO, of course >>

First time I have seen this thread and would like to say way to go on finding this DDO. As for the Lincolns, remember the DDOs and DDRs on the 2009 Lincolns? Well there are some dramatic DDRs such as the skelton finger and they still are not at the value they should be for new process hubbing issues. Here is an example for you of one of my coins.

UPDATE*2012 Benjamin Harrison P DDO? HUGE UPDATED PICS for the NAY-sayers

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UPDATE***2012 Benjamin Harrison P DDO? **HUGE UPDATED PICS for the NAY-sayers

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UPDATE*2012 Benjamin Harrison P DDO? HUGE UPDATED PICS for the NAY-sayers