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"BUY THE COIN NOT THE LABEL" in regards to 25th Anniv. Set ASE's just got harder...benefi
bumanchu
Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭
Now with the latest iteration of the First Strike Label bearing a Flag AND a Mercanti signature..........
What the heck is going on? I could write volumes on this, but anyone who reads my posts, knows it would be the first time!
Y'all have at it!
Edit of title to inquire if you think the profusion of label offerings is benfecial or detrimental to the collecting of modern coins.
What the heck is going on? I could write volumes on this, but anyone who reads my posts, knows it would be the first time!
Y'all have at it!
Edit of title to inquire if you think the profusion of label offerings is benfecial or detrimental to the collecting of modern coins.
And I ain't lying this time.
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Comments
No, but Wondercoin had mentioned earlier that something different with the Mercanti labels was in the pipeline. Now on the BST he has announced the soon to be available Mercanti signature First Strike with Flag labeled sets and is taking orders.
Anyone?
Whatever it is.....remember to buy the good stuff at the cheapest possible!
I still have never been able to find out how many of the signed Jay W Johnson 2001 Buffalo Coins are out there. Things like that would be nice to know. Since they do bring more money with the signed tag.
<< <i>I understand the whole multi-lable thing they are doing. But I think if they are going to try to make the lable collectable them at the very least reflect the different lables in the pop reports.
I still have never been able to find out how many of the signed Jay W Johnson 2001 Buffalo Coins are out there. Things like that would be nice to know. Since they do bring more money with the signed tag. >>
I vote for that - I have all three labels and would like to know each pop.
Wondercoin
Cant blame our hosts in capitalizing on this but those who want the most bang for your buck will put extra money towards another coin. To each their own...the label premiums will crash on this just like it happened with the Flag labels. A fool and their money....
IMO a market fractured by several labels may present some buying opportunities as certain labels are given fleeting premiums while others are temporarily depressed. We've seen this in the last few weeks with the 25ths.
<< <i>I did give "heads up' on another thread about a month or so ago that the "second generation" Mercanti autograph label was in the works. Mr. Mercanti needs to painstakingly hand sign each and every label and that obviously takes time. I believe he is even working on Sundays to get them all signed!
Wondercoin >>
Will these labels be in addition to the existing Mercantis, or will they be replacing them?
<< <i>So Flag coins give Mercantis a beatdown initially and now there's a Flag signature? Surprise, surprise.
IMO a market fractured by several labels may present some buying opportunities as certain labels are given fleeting premiums while others are temporarily depressed. We've seen this in the last few weeks with the 25ths. >>
You know what you call this whole label, upon label deal. A blessing in disguise to acquire the same coins for a cheaper price. In the end a FS Mercanti MS69 25th Anniversary set coin is still the same as a Flag Mercanti FS coin. A key is a key and they will both have the same denomination.
Anyone who has any questions regarding the 25th Anniv. special label programs at PCGS can always call Miles Standish (949) 922-0515. He oversees these projects at PCGS I believe.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I was told that however many 2nd generation Mercanti Flag/autograph labels were signed to this point by Mr. Mercanti ... those labels have all been "spoken for". Hence, no doubt, I believe PCGS will continue to offer the first generation Mercanti signed label until those are also all "spoken for".
Anyone who has any questions regarding the 25th Anniv. special label programs at PCGS can always call Miles Standish (949) 922-0515. He oversees these projects at PCGS I believe.
Wondercoin >>
Would love to see a pic of that second generation. If all of the 2nd generation are spoken for then That should be the "rare" one since the 1st generation labels have not all been spoken for yet. What do you guys think?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>I was told that however many 2nd generation Mercanti Flag/autograph labels were signed to this point by Mr. Mercanti ... those labels have all been "spoken for". Hence, no doubt, I believe PCGS will continue to offer the first generation Mercanti signed label until those are also all "spoken for".
Anyone who has any questions regarding the 25th Anniv. special label programs at PCGS can always call Miles Standish (949) 922-0515. He oversees these projects at PCGS I believe.
Wondercoin >>
This is not directed specifically to WC, just MHO about this latest label offering -
I doubt there will ever be a limit for Mercanti labels. As long as there are orders, the labels will be supplied.
If PCGS is offering a second type of Mercanti label, it would be nice if they stopped offering the first gen label and get the 1st gen Mercanti label to a "limited edition" status.
I just think long term, the 1st gen Mercanti will suffer. I think this change was made due to the poor initial market reaction to the 1st gen Mercanti label.
As a small pocket holder of two 70 and four 69 1st gen Mercanti labeled sets that I intend to re-sell with an on-coming stronger market, I'm not pleased at all of this news.
Does this new subset of labeled 25th Anniversary SAE Sets somehow benefit the TPG's?
We know collectors like matched sets--this addition helps decrease the number of certain types of matched sets by its mere introduction to the marketplace.
Will collectors then resubmit certain coins in order to attain a matched set, simultaneously altering the census of both associated label types?--here keeping track of how many coins of what iteration would be both helpful to the collector and hectic to the TPG's, yet in the long run it is something that should be done, since the TPG has taken the initiative to create the label differences and associated issues, a proper census should be made available. We do live in the age of the computer.
Can you say baseball cards?
All of the above is nothing more than thought provoking material.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>Just wondering how can the second generation Mercanti be sold out first before the first generation is spoken for like Epcjimi1 mentioned in his reply post? Was this 2nd generation only availble for a select few? Just curious how the system works.
Good question. can individual submissions request/pay for a Mercanti/flag label?
<< <i>Just wondering how can the second generation Mercanti be sold out first before the first generation is spoken for like Epcjimi1 mentioned in his reply post? Was this 2nd generation only availble for a select few? Just curious how the system works.
The carrot did not perform well, so a newer and better carrot had to be invented. Of course, it is "sold out" as that just furthers the hype.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just wondering how can the second generation Mercanti be sold out first before the first generation is spoken for like Epcjimi1 mentioned in his reply post? Was this 2nd generation only availble for a select few? Just curious how the system works.
The carrot did not perform well, so a newer and better carrot had to be invented. Of course, it is "sold out" as that just furthers the hype. >>
I thought WC said up to this point they were spoken for (2nd gen). Does that mean sold out or will Mercanti keep signing as long as there are submissions for it? The regular Mercanti labels are simple and nicer in person than in the pics. On the other hand, the Flag label shows better in pics (IMO). I think this new label might be cluttered (we'll see). Curious for a pic to be posted!
<< <i>
<< <i>I was told that however many 2nd generation Mercanti Flag/autograph labels were signed to this point by Mr. Mercanti ... those labels have all been "spoken for". Hence, no doubt, I believe PCGS will continue to offer the first generation Mercanti signed label until those are also all "spoken for".
Anyone who has any questions regarding the 25th Anniv. special label programs at PCGS can always call Miles Standish (949) 922-0515. He oversees these projects at PCGS I believe.
Wondercoin >>
Would love to see a pic of that second generation. If all of the 2nd generation are spoken for then That should be the "rare" one since the 1st generation labels have not all been spoken for yet. What do you guys think? >>
He did say all labels "signed to the point ... have been spoken for." It anyone's guess as to whether either label will be limited, although the inference I am drawing is that the 2nd label will be replacing the first label, otherwise why have it at all? Given how many first labels are already out, combined with how few unopened sets are still in existence (taking into account what has been opened and as well as what has already been sent to any TPG), my bet would be that neither label will ever be significantly more rare than the other. If anything, there are probably more first labels already in existence than there will be second ones, even if the new ones are not limited.
I also bet, sight unseen, that the second label will be more attractive than the first, and therefore probably more in demand going forward. I'll also be the first to ask the following: assuming second labels will be created to meet demand, would it cost another $250 to have first labels switched out for the new ones? Will PCGS even do that? If not, then you would have to break coins out of a first label in order to submit for a second label, and be forced to lose the FS designation in doing so. If they do allow it, you would have $500 tied up in a label, plus the value of the coin. It's difficult to imagine that the market would support that, so it's hard to imagine that a second gen set could ever be worth more than $250 more than a first gen, no matter how awesome they might be. On the other hand, if they actually do limit them to what has already been produced and spoken for, then I guess the sky's the limit, depending solely on how much the market values a limited edition label on a limited edition coin!!! Since PCGS previously indicated no limit for Mercantis, however, it is hard to believe they will limit these just to create an artificially rare label.
Wow -- 8 different PCGS labels for one set -- flag and regular, tombstone FS and non-FS, and 2 Mercantis, both FS and non-FS!!! This has to be some kind of record. Lots of questions for Mr. Standish.
<< <i>It's too bad that so many new collectors entering this great hobby may never experience the pleasure of collecting coins. >>
Buy the coin not the label, but in this case many of us who want to have a small collection of modern coins do not want to be ripped off by unscrupulous sellers. So we buy some slabbed coins (as in this set because it is only guaranteed to be original if slabbed or the box is sealed). It's hard to see the coins in the sealed box. And if I open it and decide to sell it a few years out, will it be questioned as original? Just easier to have the labels for the 3 common coins in this situation.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's too bad that so many new collectors entering this great hobby may never experience the pleasure of collecting coins. >>
Buy the coin not the label, but in this case many of us who want to have a small collection of modern coins do not want to be ripped off by unscrupulous sellers. So we buy some slabbed coins (as in this set because it is only guaranteed to be original if slabbed or the box is sealed). It's hard to see the coins in the sealed box. >>
I think the point was slab confusion. PCGS does offer a great service, and the age of buying sight unseen on the internet makes them an important player. However, offering this many different types of slabs is getting crazy and it is really going to start confusing people....when the point is really to be looking at the coin. Hopefully buyers will educate themselves to discover that all of the coins in these are--hopefully--the same in the long run and to buy the best stuff for the cheapest possible.
<< <i>It's too bad that so many new collectors entering this great hobby may never experience the pleasure of collecting coins. >>
What a bold and true statement...I agree whole heartedly.....!!!!
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
<< <i>This is just so stupid... >>
+1
Might as well hire Ron Popeil to hock all the different labels.
Q: What do we got?
A: Another label.
Coasterfan: With all due respect, before you even suggest such an inflamatory conclusion, were you able to:
1. Verify with Miles Standish (I even gave everyone his phone number today) that only "select" customers get this "exclusive privilege"?
2. Over the past MONTH, did you make any effort at all to inquire with PCGS about this new insert, even though I telegraphed its existence to everyone on these boards about a month ago (just when I learned of the information)?
If the answer to both of these questions is NO, do you really believe it is fair and appropriate to make such comments against our host? Seriously?
Wondercoin
The point is that many of us are good customers to PCGS. The least they could do is communicate with us directly. They have easy access to the post button. I think Coasterfan has a very good point.
Having said that, clearly a more proactive position as to what services are indeed available to whom (including public posting of such in a timely manner) would serve everyone better.
JMHO
bumanchu
Someone mentioned baseball cards in a prior post. I don't know how many different labels you can get for a particular card, but with all the label madness I think there's at least a slight comparison to be made to comic books in the early 90s. During that time comics were hot and multicovers were all the rage. Eventually though that trend KILLED the hobby. Sure it's an apples to oranges comparison to be sure, but it's still worth noting IMO.
<< <i>If the newest labels were sold out before the general public ever found out about them, that's a head scratcher to say the least. No doubt Mitch has done his part to mention to folks a change was coming, but he never said, nor did anyone else to my knowledge that they would only be available to select few for a few days only. If PCGS wants to change their labels for the same release 50 times that's their right and no one can fault them for that. However a lot of collectors may be upset by the fact they never even had a chance at the 2nd generation label if indeed they are indeed sold out forever. It just doesn't make sense to develop a replacement that many of us here were anxiously awaiting only to find out it it's sold out before we ever had a chance at it. I'm sitting on multiple sealed boxes and was waiting to find out more/see the new Mercanti label and the first thing I hear about them is I'm crap out of luck? I'm not complaining, but no doubt some people aren't happy.
Someone mentioned baseball cards in a prior post. I don't know how many different labels you can get for a particular card, but with all the label madness I think there's at least a slight comparison to be made to comic books in the early 90s. During that time comics were hot and multicovers were all the rage. Eventually though that trend KILLED the hobby. Sure it's an apples to oranges comparison to be sure, but it's still worth noting IMO. >>
It's not apples and oranges at all. When the label is as or more imortant than the coin, the hobby is in trouble. The hobby is coin collecting and if that alone does not offer enough to keep us interested we are in trouble.
<< <i>Coasterfan: With all due respect, before you even suggest such an inflamatory conclusion, were you able to:
1. Verify with Miles Standish (I even gave everyone his phone number today) that only "select" customers get this "exclusive privilege"?
2. Over the past MONTH, did you make any effort at all to inquire with PCGS about this new insert, even though I telegraphed its existence to everyone on these boards about a month ago (just when I learned of the information)?
If the answer to both of these questions is NO, do you really believe it is fair and appropriate to make such comments against our host? Seriously?
Wondercoin >>
Wondercoin,
Even the availability of the bulk submission labels to the general public was not widely announced. It really should not require calling PCGS every single day to find out if any new options are available. Is that really practical? PCGS can easily issue press announcements and make them available on their website, just like ATS. That's all I'm asking.
How did you learn about the new inserts? Did you call PCGS and ask, or did they provide that information to you?
<< <i>If the newest labels were sold out before the general public ever found out about them, that's a head scratcher to say the least. No doubt Mitch has done his part to mention to folks a change was coming, but he never said, nor did anyone else to my knowledge that they would only be available to select few for a few days only. If PCGS wants to change their labels for the same release 50 times that's their right and no one can fault them for that. However a lot of collectors may be upset by the fact they never even had a chance at the 2nd generation label if indeed they are indeed sold out forever. It just doesn't make sense to develop a replacement that many of us here were anxiously awaiting only to find out it it's sold out before we ever had a chance at it. I'm sitting on multiple sealed boxes and was waiting to find out more/see the new Mercanti label and the first thing I hear about them is I'm crap out of luck? I'm not complaining, but no doubt some people aren't happy.
Someone mentioned baseball cards in a prior post. I don't know how many different labels you can get for a particular card, but with all the label madness I think there's at least a slight comparison to be made to comic books in the early 90s. During that time comics were hot and multicovers were all the rage. Eventually though that trend KILLED the hobby. Sure it's an apples to oranges comparison to be sure, but it's still worth noting IMO. >>
I humbly suggest that we find out what's really going on before flipping out! WC only said those signed thus far were spoken for. I, for one, did not take this to mean they were sold out and would be unavailable in the future. It would make no sense to me for PCGS to refuse to make these available to those who want them, and I would be shocked if they would take the time to develop a new label and then cut off the potential money they could make by severely restricting its availability. Why don't we call the number WC posted tomorrow and report results back to the board before jumping to conclusions?
<< <i>I humbly suggest that we find out what's really going on before flipping out! >>
Good luck with finding out what's going on.
I will say this - back when WC first suggested a revision to the Mercanio label, on Dec. 3, 2011, I sent a PM to a very high up executive @ PCGS inquiring as to the nature of the change. I did not receive a response from said high up executive.
I also asked Jaime via email @ PCGS, but he responded that he would not blog about Mercanti labels because he didn't know much about them.
That's about it, beside a leak in the forum, it's news, but then again it's not news if PCGS doesn't even promote it.
Very, very strange, all in all.
<< <i>
<< <i>If the newest labels were sold out before the general public ever found out about them, that's a head scratcher to say the least. No doubt Mitch has done his part to mention to folks a change was coming, but he never said, nor did anyone else to my knowledge that they would only be available to select few for a few days only. If PCGS wants to change their labels for the same release 50 times that's their right and no one can fault them for that. However a lot of collectors may be upset by the fact they never even had a chance at the 2nd generation label if indeed they are indeed sold out forever. It just doesn't make sense to develop a replacement that many of us here were anxiously awaiting only to find out it it's sold out before we ever had a chance at it. I'm sitting on multiple sealed boxes and was waiting to find out more/see the new Mercanti label and the first thing I hear about them is I'm crap out of luck? I'm not complaining, but no doubt some people aren't happy.
Someone mentioned baseball cards in a prior post. I don't know how many different labels you can get for a particular card, but with all the label madness I think there's at least a slight comparison to be made to comic books in the early 90s. During that time comics were hot and multicovers were all the rage. Eventually though that trend KILLED the hobby. Sure it's an apples to oranges comparison to be sure, but it's still worth noting IMO. >>
I humbly suggest that we find out what's really going on before flipping out! WC only said those signed thus far were spoken for. I, for one, did not take this to mean they were sold out and would be unavailable in the future. It would make no sense to me for PCGS to refuse to make these available to those who want them, and I would be shocked if they would take the time to develop a new label and then cut off the potential money they could make by severely restricting its availability. Why don't we call the number WC posted tomorrow and report results back to the board before jumping to conclusions? >>
Fair enough. I will call tomorrow and get the scoop. In the meantime, I will remove my criticism. I will also voice my concerns about how this information is being distributed too narrowly and suggest that such announcements be posted on their website.
<< <i>I humbly suggest that we find out what's really going on... >>
I whole-heartedly agree... That's why I started my post with the word "If"
<< <i>It would make no sense to me for PCGS to refuse to make these available to those who want them, and I would be shocked if they would take the time to develop a new label and then cut off the potential money they could make by severely restricting its availability >>
If I were a betting man that would be my bet. I'm sure we'll find out tomorrow what the scoop is