Check Fraud-Identity Theft-REWARD!

mrearlygold · January 18, 2011 4:06PM

BE CAREFUL out there. We discovered today that we've had recurring charged/debits on our checking account going back early 2010. Never saw it till today.

We are out over $100,000.00 and we're still counting. The bank tells us they only have to go back 30 days for business checking and 60 days for personal.

Charges from Amex, Capital One, Citi Bank, Bank of America. NONE are our accounts and our in house bookeeper didn't catch it until today when we noticed someone tried to run ( and was successful in doing so ) a 20K charge.

I'm calling a lawyer tomorrow of course but tonight we are wondering if indeed we are screwed.

How this could happen is a mystery and I'm willing to pay a private investigator if that will help to find who did this.

Has this happened to anyone here?

REWARD!
I will personally pay $10,000.00 cash money to ANYONE who gives me information leading to the arrest and conviction of whoever stole this money from me

Bochiman · January 18, 2011 4:17PM

That sucks!
I had, about 5-6 years ago, some company trying to charge our (personal) account $9.99 per month.
Since I only have 4 accounts, and all are personal, I keep monthly, if not weekly or daily online, watch, and noticed it right away.

My credit union took it off after I investigated over the weekend and couldn't do it myself.

Had another similar one a few years back and did the same. I'm pretty careful on things and I always watch financial statements closely.

abitofthisabitofthat · January 18, 2011 8:23PM

Sounds like you need a new bank. Banks do have the tools to help you prevent unauthorized activity. Accounts can be set up with an ACH block to prevent certain transactions. Posi-pay is a feature that will prevent a bank from clearing bogus checks drafted against your account. Bottom line - there are bad folks out there. If the bank that you currently have won't help you, get one that will.

Also, what level employee at your bank told you 30 days? Escalate the issue, as high as you need to. This is a policy that can be waived. Write a formal letter to the bank president (do not be impressed by titles at banks - they make everyone a VP to sound important).

Needless to say, change your internal procedures so that all bank accounts are fully reconciled in a timely manner. How long has your bookkeeper been with you, by the way? Are they 100% trustworthy?

GaCoinGuy · January 18, 2011 8:45PM

We had something like this happen with us a couple of years ago. Not nearly as large an amount, but our bank went through our account and got back about 6 months worth of stuff for us. I would think a bank would be willing to work more with a customer with such large assets.

AMRC · January 18, 2011 9:02PM

"In house bookkeeper" didn't catch it? Hmm.

ldhair · January 18, 2011 9:31PM

It's really important to question everything with the banks in a timely manner.
With all the laws and bank rules, it boils down to who is going to eat it.
Those that catch a problem first can go out for a nice steak dinner and not have to eat paper.
I know it's hard to think this but, look at those inside the business that could have done this to you.

kranky · January 18, 2011 10:04PM

I cannot think of any defensible reason that the bookkeeper did not detect this long ago. I can think of logical explanations but none of those are going to make the bookkeeper look good.

I think you are at the mercy of the bank, but see what your lawyer says. If your statements showed the transactions and they weren't questioned within the 30 or 60 day window, I think it's very unlikely you can force the bank to do anything.

OPA · January 18, 2011 10:05PM

<< "In house bookkeeper" didn't catch it? Hmm. >>

The sum appears to be large enough to get the Secret Service or FBI involved. Not sure what the time frame is for fraud transactions, but I'm positive it's more than the 30 or 60 days quoted by your bank.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 1:38AM

<< 

<< "In house bookkeeper" didn't catch it? Hmm. >>

The sum appears to be large enough to get the Secret Service or FBI involved. Not sure what the time frame is for fraud transactions, but I'm positive it's more than the 30 or 60 days quoted by your bank. >>

Far as the bookeeper there is nothing and I mean nothing nefarious going on. It's an honest mistake of not recognizing charges that were very consistent over time, almost the same day of every month.

Spoke to an attorney who of course wants to put the bank on notice right away. But if we do that then whatever relationship I have with them becomes adversarial.

Not sure if now is the right time for that. We're over 100K in losses right now.

garrynot · January 19, 2011 1:40AM

Good luck, Tom. That sucks

notwilight · January 19, 2011 1:46AM

Tom,
I don't understand. Are you saying that your bank recieved credit card chargebacks, more than 30 days old, and your bank just took the money out of your account and didn't show it on the current months statement?

--Jerry

HTubbs · January 19, 2011 1:54AM

<< "In house bookkeeper" didn't catch it? Hmm. >>

I'm not sure if this is the case here, but the term "In house bookkeeper" is often synonymous with the term "wife".

Edited to add: This sounds like a nightmare from hell, I hope you're able to recover all of your stolen funds.

Barry · January 19, 2011 2:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< "In house bookkeeper" didn't catch it? Hmm. >>

The sum appears to be large enough to get the Secret Service or FBI involved. Not sure what the time frame is for fraud transactions, but I'm positive it's more than the 30 or 60 days quoted by your bank. >>

Far as the bookeeper there is nothing and I mean nothing nefarious going on. It's an honest mistake of not recognizing charges that were very consistent over time, almost the same day of every month.

Spoke to an attorney who of course wants to put the bank on notice right away. But if we do that then whatever relationship I have with them becomes adversarial.

Not sure if now is the right time for that. We're over 100K in losses right now. >>

Honest mistake or not, isn't the role of the bookkeeper to keep the books?

I'd fire the bookkeeper (even if it is your wife

).

I balance my accounts every month and match up CC statements with the transaction slips monthly, too. Once caught a restaurant double-billing me (they swiped my card twice), but that's been the worst of it.

UtahCoin · January 19, 2011 2:09AM

Tom,

That is very scary. Were these counterfeit checks, or electronic withdrawals? A police report and an "Affidavit of Forgery" should be a good start at the bank. In this digital age it is scary what is possible.

57loaded · January 19, 2011 2:11AM

i do hope you get to a resolution.

and your bookkeeper reconciles these more often.

shorecoll · January 19, 2011 2:27AM

I agree with abitofthis, have your bank put a debit or ACH block on your main account, have a separate account for debit transactions that the bookkeeper does manage to the penny. Up until a few years ago it was standard to not allow debits from a business account. A national bank association actually got defrauded the same way you did.

I would talk to your bank, if it's a big bank get your branch manager to refer you to a higher up and/or a fraud specialist at HQ. You likely need an SVP or above to have the authority to fix it.

Businesses have fewer protections than consumers, but you do have the power of significant volume. The bank can do whatever it wants up to and including making you whole. Most banks have a really big line item to write off fraud losses, you don't. One of my bank clients has a $75k floor limit on lawsuits...if you sue for less than that, they normally just pay you.

Good luck.

mrcoin3 · January 19, 2011 2:39AM

<Far as the bookeeper there is nothing and I mean nothing nefarious going on. It's an honest mistake of not recognizing charges that were very consistent over time, almost the same day of every month.>

Might be time to consider a replacement for the bookkeeper.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 2:45AM

It's a very big bank. I just got off the phone with the fraud dept and all the charges are in my Wife's name. But she doesn't HAVE those cards!

So now we have to make a series of phone calls to get her credit report, then call the individual card companies and go down the path of "Identity Theft" which I was just told if they reject the claims we will definitely need an attorney. So my bank will submit the disputes but then it's up to the various card companies and if they reject it then we have a battle in front of us apparently.

rgCoinGuy · January 19, 2011 2:46AM

Doing it for that long, you would think they would be able to follow the money to track down who did it. Good luck, I hope you get your funds back. Something as simple as writing a check to a bad person gives that person everything they need to do this.

I see now this appears to be credit cards, so disregard my check comment.

AngryTurtle · January 19, 2011 2:51AM

This may have been from an infected PC, where passwords, CC, and bank information was captured, perhaps by key logging.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 2:59AM

<< This may have been from an infected PC, where passwords, CC, and bank information was captured, perhaps by key logging. >>

I don't know. Maybe. We have a bunch of calls to make now. Unbelievable.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 5:19AM

Does anyone know how to find an address? I can't find this on zillow

5237 sunbeam circle, san jose ca 52971

Thank you in advance. This is a link to something. Hoo boy have we found some things out thus far.

notwilight · January 19, 2011 5:22AM

Sunbeam

Looks like a double-wide mobile home under a freeway overpass. --jerry

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 5:54AM

Thanks Jerry.

Anyone have experiences with identity theft?

Unbelievable

jhdfla · January 19, 2011 5:57AM

Sorry to hear this Tom, hope you get this straightened out and don't take a big hit.

That is pretty awesome what Jerry came up with. I wish you luck.

John

shorecoll · January 19, 2011 6:03AM

Check with your homeowner's insurance agent/company, they may have an ID theft department that will help you. One or more of your card companies do as well, don't know if they'll help after the fact.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 6:44AM

<< Check with your homeowner's insurance agent/company, they may have an ID theft department that will help you. One or more of your card companies do as well, don't know if they'll help after the fact. >>

A very big time coin lawyer just told me the same thing ( to check with the insurance )

I'm on it.

Just called. Nein!

pennyannie · January 19, 2011 6:49AM

I have had a few issues over the years with banks and credit card companies. I was made whole in MOST of them. A lot of times the scammers are 2 steps ahead of the banks and CC companies.

One thing that i do know, banks will try to NOT FOLLOW the laws and rules. I have had this type of incident happen 3 or 4 times. I used to own a Texaco Franchise and i would have people come in on a daily or weekly basis and write checks. The checks would always clear. This would go on for weeks or months and then BAM the bank would pull 1000's out of my account. The bank would claim the checks were written without conset. The person would file a affidavit and say they did not write or okay the checks. There bank would debit my bank and there goes the money. There is a time line there and i had to fight to get money returned. Some banks do not even know the rules.

I have had my credit card number used by companies that i have bought stuff from ( employees or friends would go on a shopping spree) Those all turned out okay.

I have had issues of multiple charges and other mis charges applied to my cards and did not know for a very long time. My wife pAYS the bills and did not question any of the transactions. She just thought they were all business related. I ate a few of those. Now every month i look thru my credit card statements before she pays them.

Good luck

MsMorrisine · January 19, 2011 7:04AM

<< Does anyone know how to find an address? I can't find this on zillow

5237 sunbeam circle, san jose ca 52971

Thank you in advance. This is a link to something. Hoo boy have we found some things out thus far. >>

the usps site says only 1300-1499 are valid number for sunbeam cir, san jose 95122

(what's up with your zip? that's not even a valid zip code.)

fishcooker · January 19, 2011 9:23AM

Anyone have experiences with identity theft?

Mine was several years ago - hope it has gotten better

1) Expect over a year to resolve it.
2) I bet you'll need that attorney at some point.
3) Don't expect the banks to follow federal law.
4) Don't expect any investigation of even the most basic evidence (we had a photo of the theif in his car)
5) It is very, very difficult to put the criminal in jail.
6) When all is said and done, you'll probably be wondering why you aren't an ID theif too.
7) Expect a significant amount of time being pissed.
8) Phone calls mean nothing. Use signed documents sent by mail with tracking and return receipts.
9) Get everything in writing and toss out NOTHING. Truth will be a scarce commodity in this process.

mrearlygold · January 19, 2011 10:54AM

<< Anyone have experiences with identity theft?

Mine was several years ago - hope it has gotten better

1) Expect over a year to resolve it.
2) I bet you'll need that attorney at some point.
3) Don't expect the banks to follow federal law.
4) Don't expect any investigation of even the most basic evidence (we had a photo of the theif in his car)
5) It is very, very difficult to put the criminal in jail.
6) When all is said and done, you'll probably be wondering why you aren't an ID theif too.
7) Expect a significant amount of time being pissed.
8) Phone calls mean nothing. Use signed documents sent by mail with tracking and return receipts.
9) Get everything in writing and toss out NOTHING. Truth will be a scarce commodity in this process. >>

In your opinion will the banks say things that aren't true? It seems like my bank is trying to be helpful. They already reimbursed us more than 20K just from what was stolen from us this month and they said they will go back 60 days. That they "can't" go back further than that but they will submit disputes to the various companies that have gotten money from the account. A friend of mine who is a lawyer up yonder told me there's a time to be nice and there's a time to be all business. That they are only interested in protecting themselves and I should retain counsel immediately.

I know that once I do that however and we're in an adversarial position. Up until now I have a great repoire with the people in the bank and am happier ( from a banking stanpoint ) than I've been in a long time. I hate to lose the connection. But if indeed they lie and when acting helpful are actually not then I'm more than a little concerned. Emotions have entered the equation, am very tired, up till the wee hours last night going thru statement after statement then all day today and I feel like little has been accomplished. And it's just beginning. Sheesh.

segoja · January 19, 2011 10:54AM

Good luck....and what a bummer

Lakesammman · January 19, 2011 11:06AM

Sorry to hear the news - very scary stuff.

I had a friend at work who's corporate account was basically "sold" by an insider at the bank. They cashed multiple checks all over the US at the same time. When he called to see what was going on, they had even changed his password. Initially, as a result, they wouldn't answer questions about his account, etc. It took quite some time to resolve.

JupitarCoins · January 19, 2011 11:10AM

Sorry to hear about this Tom.
I hope they catch the individual/s responsible for this and prosecute them to the fullest extent!!

jmski52 · January 19, 2011 11:42AM

I wish I knew how to help.

mrearlygold · January 20, 2011 1:41AM

Whats amazing too is nobody ( outside this forum ) has even mentioned calling the police. Not the bank, not the credit card companies, not the fraud department. Not one of them.

I will personally pay $10,000.00 cash money to ANYONE who gives me information leading to the arrest and conviction of whoever stole this money from me.

MsMorrisine · January 20, 2011 1:53AM

not any leads to work with.

the only thing that is out there is a bogus address and bogus zip code.

truthteller · January 20, 2011 3:14AM

try this website

www.clarkhoward.com

He has a syndicated radio show and deals with issues such as thison a regular basis. He has muscle to get the banks to help you.

TRUTH

mrearlygold · January 20, 2011 3:14AM

<< not any leads to work with.

the only thing that is out there is a bogus address and bogus zip code. >>

That's the new address on my Wife's statement. She tried to sign up to one of the credit reporting agencies, entered her ss etc and was DENIED access. They stated that "someone already has that account"!

So consider today's 10K offer an initial offer. Anyone with private investigatory experience or tracks people down as a hobby, the Wife or mistress of the perpetrator, friends or associates, ANYONE who gives me information leading to this person or persons arrest/conviction will get the reward.

So if the aquaintance is reading this, want to make some money? I have a reward for your information.

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2011 3:19AM

<< Whats amazing too is nobody ( outside this forum ) has even mentioned calling the police. Not the bank, not the credit card companies, not the fraud department. Not one of them.

I will personally pay $10,000.00 cash money to ANYONE who gives me information leading to the arrest and conviction of whoever stole this money from me. >>

So where exactly did the money disappear from? A business credit card account? A business checking account? Some other account? I can't imagine that nearly $10K a month can go missing from an account for nearly a year without getting discovered. Didn't ANYONE question it?

Frankly, I don't think it is up to a bank or CC to question yours or anyone else's business expenses.

I recall some time back that my wife ordered some pet meds from an Australian company and used a CC. A couple weeks later a membership fee for a transvestite website showed up on my card. I got it removed mucho pronto.

You might be the typical super busy person, but if I was you I'd take a minute or 2 out of my busy day and peek at my business accounts online every couple days.

mrearlygold · January 20, 2011 3:41AM

<< 

<< Whats amazing too is nobody ( outside this forum ) has even mentioned calling the police. Not the bank, not the credit card companies, not the fraud department. Not one of them.

I will personally pay $10,000.00 cash money to ANYONE who gives me information leading to the arrest and conviction of whoever stole this money from me. >>

So where exactly did the money disappear from? A business credit card account? A business checking account? Some other account? I can't imagine that nearly $10K a month can go missing from an account for nearly a year without getting discovered. Didn't ANYONE question it?

Frankly, I don't think it is up to a bank or CC to question yours or anyone else's business expenses.

I recall some time back that my wife ordered some pet meds from an Australian company and used a CC. A couple weeks later a membership fee for a transvestite website showed up on my card. I got it removed mucho pronto.

You might be the typical super busy person, but if I was you I'd take a minute or 2 out of my busy day and peek at my business accounts online every couple days. >>

No, nobody questioned it till the other day when someone tried to transfer 20K out of my account.

goose3 · January 20, 2011 3:51AM

if you haven't been told to or haven't done so you need to call one of the 3 credit reporting agencies and have them flag you and your wife's info.

Bankerbob56 · January 20, 2011 3:53AM

That's why it is very important to REVIEW statements from your financial institution in a timely basis!!!! Once an electronic transaction appears on your statement you have a clock ticking to dispute the charge! If anyone learns anything from this thread, you must notify your financial institution IMMEDIATELy once you've identified a suspect transaction! Typically you have 60 days to dispute a transaction. That clock starts the minute you receive the statement that includes the charge!

derryb · January 20, 2011 3:55AM

Tom, clear something up for me. Are the bogus charges on credit card accounts thay you are the wife opened or are the charges on credit cards that someone else opened in you or your wife's name?

If on an account not opened by you or your wife and for items not signed for by you or your wife how can you be responsible for payment? If someone other than you or the wife were able to open accounts in your name and SSN, I would argue that whoever granted the cards failed to insure the account holders were who they claimed to be.

johnny9434 · January 20, 2011 3:57AM

best wishes with that and i hope they catch em and you get restitution.

BAJJERFAN · January 20, 2011 4:13AM

<< 

<< 

<< Whats amazing too is nobody ( outside this forum ) has even mentioned calling the police. Not the bank, not the credit card companies, not the fraud department. Not one of them.

I will personally pay $10,000.00 cash money to ANYONE who gives me information leading to the arrest and conviction of whoever stole this money from me. >>

So where exactly did the money disappear from? A business credit card account? A business checking account? Some other account? I can't imagine that nearly $10K a month can go missing from an account for nearly a year without getting discovered. Didn't ANYONE question it?

Frankly, I don't think it is up to a bank or CC to question yours or anyone else's business expenses.

I recall some time back that my wife ordered some pet meds from an Australian company and used a CC. A couple weeks later a membership fee for a transvestite website showed up on my card. I got it removed mucho pronto.

You might be the typical super busy person, but if I was you I'd take a minute or 2 out of my busy day and peek at my business accounts online every couple days. >>

No, nobody questioned it till the other day when someone tried to transfer 20K out of my account. >>

Larger amounts usually tend to get someone's attention. It seems that the longer the crooks get by, the braver and greedier they get. Looks like greed caught up with them and they killed the goose laying the golden eggs. Good luck getting your funds back.

MsMorrisine · January 20, 2011 4:29AM

<< 

<< not any leads to work with.

the only thing that is out there is a bogus address and bogus zip code. >>

That's the new address on my Wife's statement. She tried to sign up to one of the credit reporting agencies, entered her ss etc and was DENIED access. They stated that "someone already has that account"!

So consider today's 10K offer an initial offer. Anyone with private investigatory experience or tracks people down as a hobby, the Wife or mistress of the perpetrator, friends or associates, ANYONE who gives me information leading to this person or persons arrest/conviction will get the reward.

So if the aquaintance is reading this, want to make some money? I have a reward for your information. >>

lots of possibilities.

the easiest is identity theft. While they may not have fully stolen your identity, they could have protrayed themselves as you on the phone to change the address. The goal of the address change is to stop the paper statements going to you that may alert you to the fraud.

a more complex scheme could be an inhouse thing where several accounts were changed to the same bogus zip code. the returned mail could be intercepted or simply intercepted before it left if it is a small bank.

speaking of bank size, is this a national bank, regional bank or a small community bank with few branches?

I'm really surprised that if fraud is alleged, the bank is only willing to go back a few months.

it really sounds like they are protecting themselves instead of you.

MsMorrisine · January 20, 2011 4:32AM

and the real lead you have is where the money was being channeled into.

even if it was a temporary holding account, that would provide a better clue than a bogus address.

although it is telling they used a completely phony address with zip code.

the bank's computer system did not catch the phony zip code????

richardshipp · January 20, 2011 4:33AM

Wow... sorry to hear this. We use positive pay at our business and it works great. It doesn't fix what happened but would help going forward.

Raybob15239 · January 20, 2011 4:55AM

Sucks... good luck fixing that. You may want to notify your insurance carrier as well as the authorities. Was your book keeper a W-2 employee or an independent contractor? If an IC, did they carry errors and ommissions insurance?

I wish I had the kind of scratch that I wouldn't notice over $100K missing from my bank account for almost a year...

JupitarCoins · January 20, 2011 5:03AM

"No, nobody questioned it till the other day when someone tried to transfer 20K out of my account."

Was this transfer done online? or was it in a bank or some other financial institution. If it was the latter maybe they taped it, having the time of day.

Check Fraud-Identity Theft-REWARD!

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