Yelling ... Police ... More Yelling- Today's S. St. Paul Show
foodude
Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭
Today's show started out like the typical show at this locations, but with the new GW $ out, I suppose one might expect some mild excitement from a few people.
Well once things got rolling, a dealer accused someone of stealing a coin, and things went down hill from there. The room (with about 30 dealers) quickly became aware that something was wrong when the dealer (the accuser) was yelling at someone on the customer side of the table (the accusee- is that a word?). Almost immediately after the yelling began, there was dead silence, except for the dealer yelling (think the decibel level of a Who concert
). After a few cycles of yelling, silence, yelling, etc., the poor show promoter came over to see what was going on. Some more yelling ensued at a bit lower decibel level, or perhaps my ears were still ringing from the earlier out bursts, and it just didn’t seem as loud
After some more yelling, the police were called. While waiting for the police, the show went on, but at a slower pace. Once the police came, the yelling started up again. Apparently, if you provide the right combination of yelling and swearing when explaining things to the police you can get arrested We didn’t quite experience the appropriate combinations for that to happen, but based on the warnings given by the police, we may have been close
Also, apparently the police don’t need the help of others, particularly the accusor, who offered, repeatedly, to conduct a search of the accusee. Also, apparently the police don’t appreciate being told by the acussor that he could do a better search than they can.
Oh, with all the excitement we almost forgot about how things got started- the allegedly stolen coin was a 1914-D Lincoln Cent. It wasn’t clear to me through the yelling if the issue a coin had been switched for one in a lower grade, or that a coin was missing.
The police stuck around for about 90 minutes. The dealer packed up during this time and left.
The momentum of the show picked up a bit, but never got fully back on track. There were a few happy people at the show. I exchanged a few old quarters and crumpled dollar bills for new Montana State Quarters and GW $s- an even exchange. That made several people smile, including several kids, that hopefully showed up after the fireworks had ended
edited to fix a few accusor-accusee transpositions.
Well once things got rolling, a dealer accused someone of stealing a coin, and things went down hill from there. The room (with about 30 dealers) quickly became aware that something was wrong when the dealer (the accuser) was yelling at someone on the customer side of the table (the accusee- is that a word?). Almost immediately after the yelling began, there was dead silence, except for the dealer yelling (think the decibel level of a Who concert
). After a few cycles of yelling, silence, yelling, etc., the poor show promoter came over to see what was going on. Some more yelling ensued at a bit lower decibel level, or perhaps my ears were still ringing from the earlier out bursts, and it just didn’t seem as loudAfter some more yelling, the police were called. While waiting for the police, the show went on, but at a slower pace. Once the police came, the yelling started up again. Apparently, if you provide the right combination of yelling and swearing when explaining things to the police you can get arrested
We didn’t quite experience the appropriate combinations for that to happen, but based on the warnings given by the police, we may have been close Also, apparently the police don’t need the help of others, particularly the accusor, who offered, repeatedly, to conduct a search of the accusee. Also, apparently the police don’t appreciate being told by the acussor that he could do a better search than they can.Oh, with all the excitement we almost forgot about how things got started- the allegedly stolen coin was a 1914-D Lincoln Cent. It wasn’t clear to me through the yelling if the issue a coin had been switched for one in a lower grade, or that a coin was missing.
The police stuck around for about 90 minutes. The dealer packed up during this time and left.
The momentum of the show picked up a bit, but never got fully back on track. There were a few happy people at the show. I exchanged a few old quarters and crumpled dollar bills for new Montana State Quarters and GW $s- an even exchange. That made several people smile, including several kids, that hopefully showed up after the fireworks had ended
edited to fix a few accusor-accusee transpositions.
Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
Best show report- ever!
No. I took care of looking for those before the meltdown
I will also expect you to buy any Cameo SMS Kennedy`s and hold them for me ...that is all .....thank you
Steve
At Long Beach many people also expected some similar excitment, but nothing happened and all went well.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i> . . . the dealer (the accuser) was yelling at someone on the customer side of the table (the accusee- is that a word?).
* * * * *
Also, apparently the police don’t need the help of others, particularly the accusee, who offered, repeatedly, to conduct a search of the accusee. Also, apparently the police don’t appreciate being told by the acussee that he could do a better search than they can. >>
Greg - looks like you mixed up the "accusee" when you meant to say "accusor" (probably a good thing this wasn't a rape case
Sounds like an exciting show! - I believe that there was some similar excitement at the last Baltimore show!
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>never any excitement except for a short evacuation for a suspected fire - that did not develop. >>
And, I didn't quite make it to the door before the alert was called off. Got distracted by the donuts.
Russ, NCNE
This was the most excitement I've ever seen at a show. About 18 months ago, I saw a customer become unhinged and scream at a dealer a few times before leaving. From what I could pick up, the customer didn't like the fact that silver had gone up and he hadn't locked in a cheaper price. Of course silver has doubled or so since then.
Last year I saw two dealers screaming (almost like a who concert level
Rex
<< <i>
<< <i> . . . the dealer (the accuser) was yelling at someone on the customer side of the table (the accusee- is that a word?).
* * * * *
Also, apparently the police don’t need the help of others, particularly the accusee, who offered, repeatedly, to conduct a search of the accusee. Also, apparently the police don’t appreciate being told by the acussee that he could do a better search than they can. >>
Greg - looks like you mixed up the "accusee" when you meant to say "accusor" (probably a good thing this wasn't a rape case
Sounds like an exciting show! - I believe that there was some similar excitement at the last Baltimore show! >>
This would have been interesting to see on an episode of "Cops". Was there anyone there with a video camera?
No video, but I hope I'm not around when they run into each other at a future show
There was an incident, with a lot less noise, across from our table at the FUN how last month. It seems some slabs tried to walk away
<< <i>Awesome!! This is just what we need to spice up the Grapevine and Fort Worth shows. Maybe I'll volunteer to play the role of wrongly accused customer. I have some community theatre experience!
>>
If you'd like, I can contact a certain Humble-area dealer to see if he's available to travel. He might provide some entertainment, especially if you leave some nice juicy Morgans lying about...
No, not the show report
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Greg, it was louder than the FooFighters
"Also, apparently the police don’t need the help of others, particularly the accusor, who offered, repeatedly, to conduct a search of the accusee"
Too funny!!
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
I can tell you without a doubt, you've made my President's Day the best one in 52 yrs.
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<< <i>Awesome!! This is just what we need to spice up the Grapevine and Fort Worth shows. Maybe I'll volunteer to play the role of wrongly accused customer. I have some community theatre experience!
Rex >>
Let's chew the scenery!
Dealer: Dear sir, this specimen is ideal - nay, perfect - for your splendid collection! I offer it for a mere pittance above my cost, as I greatly value your patronage.
Customer: Fie! Fie I say! A pittance? Hardly, sir! Why, your exorbitant price insults me to my very core! Good day and I take my leave.
Dealer: Oh, my good man, you misunderstand me. May I be struck where I now stand if I have not spoken truthfully this day! The profit on this item would not be enough to obtain a simple meal. I am concerned only for the welfare of your wonderful collection, and I make you this generous offer only for the joy of being able to say I had a small part in helping build it for your heirs.
Customer: I will admit the item is attractive. Would you be so kind as to recheck your records, in the unlikely event some small calculation error has been inadvertently made?
Dealer: I will, and with haste. May I humbly suggest that, if you could find it possible to obtain one additional piece, I would endeavor to reduce the price by ten percent? I must tell you that I cannot survive in business at those prices, but for one such as you, I would make this special offer. I only pray my family will not faint from hunger.
Customer: I see. I will also avail myself of that other coin as well, as I do not desire to have your children's starvation on my conscience.
Dealer: Thank you, sir! Your have chosen the finest two items in my extensive inventory and I commend you for your discerning eye! May all my customers be as astute as you, since it would be my honor and privilege to serve them all! I rejoice that the deal is done! I will write you an invoice forthwith.... of course, the only additional item is the miniscule and customary 40% courier fee.
Customer: Courier fee? Your boldness astounds! Why, there is no courier involved whatsoever!
Dealer: Dear sir, am I not standing before you at this very moment, delivering the merchandise you have purchased? Am I not sparing you the chore of traveling to a postal facility by placing your precious items into your own hand?
Customer: WHY YOU CROOKED...
Dealer: Help! Police! He--
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
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I saw a similar thing last year at a small Chicago area show. The dealer caught a collector stealing coins and started yelling. The cops were already there. They questioned both parties and let the guy go. Apparently, he didn't "steal" anything because he never left the guys table. They didn't have enough to arrest him. How do you like those bananas?
Must have been a raw modern. No way to tell it from pocket change
<< <i> saw a similar thing last year at a small Chicago area show. The dealer caught a collector stealing coins and started yelling. The cops were already there. They questioned both parties and let the guy go. Apparently, he didn't "steal" anything because he never left the guys table. They didn't have enough to arrest him. How do you like those bananas? >>
I'm guessing this is a technicality similar to this scenario:
When smoeone shoplifts, I believe they can not get a conviction unless they wait for the perp (jeez I hate LEO lingo!) to exit the store.
Or maybe that is just urban legend?
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Let's chew the scenery!
Dealer: Dear sir, this specimen is ideal - nay, perfect - for your splendid collection! I offer it for a mere pittance above my cost, as I greatly value your patronage.
Customer: Fie! Fie I say! A pittance? Hardly, sir! Why, your exorbitant price insults me to my very core! Good day and I take my leave.
Dealer: Oh, my good man, you misunderstand me. May I be struck where I now stand if I have not spoken truthfully this day! The profit on this item would not be enough to obtain a simple meal. I am concerned only for the welfare of your wonderful collection, and I make you this generous offer only for the joy of being able to say I had a small part in helping build it for your heirs.
Customer: I will admit the item is attractive. Would you be so kind as to recheck your records, in the unlikely event some small calculation error has been inadvertently made?
Dealer: I will, and with haste. May I humbly suggest that, if you could find it possible to obtain one additional piece, I would endeavor to reduce the price by ten percent? I must tell you that I cannot survive in business at those prices, but for one such as you, I would make this special offer. I only pray my family will not faint from hunger.
Customer: I see. I will also avail myself of that other coin as well, as I do not desire to have your children's starvation on my conscience.
Dealer: Thank you, sir! Your have chosen the finest two items in my extensive inventory and I commend you for your discerning eye! May all my customers be as astute as you, since it would be my honor and privilege to serve them all! I rejoice that the deal is done! I will write you an invoice forthwith.... of course, the only additional item is the miniscule and customary 40% courier fee.
Customer: Courier fee? Your boldness astounds! Why, there is no courier involved whatsoever!
Dealer: Dear sir, am I not standing before you at this very moment, delivering the merchandise you have purchased? Am I not sparing you the chore of traveling to a postal facility by placing your precious items into your own hand?
Customer: WHY YOU CROOKED...
Dealer: Help! Police! He-- >>
Bravo! Bravo!
do you think this shouting incident is in any way related to the horrible shooting death of Lenny`s son ?
<< <i>
I'm guessing this is a technicality similar to this scenario:
When smoeone shoplifts, I believe they can not get a conviction unless they wait for the perp (jeez I hate LEO lingo!) to exit the store.
Or maybe that is just urban legend? >>
My sister works at Holister and their boss says not to alert the cops until AFTER they walk out of the store, even if they are caught shoving clothes under their shirt, in bags, etc. I'll have to ask her if it really is stealing if they are still caught in the store (she is also going to college to be a police officer).
The idiot boss has never wanted to file charges either. He just lets them go if they return the items. My sister says the kids get caught two or three times a week (same kids) because it's a game. Most of the workers just quit reporting it. Why report it when nothing happens?
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do you think this shouting incident is in any way related to the horrible shooting death of Lenny`s son ?
No reason to think so. The incident I saw happened at a show in S St. Paul, MN (as the name implies, it is near St. Paul, MN).
What time did this happen and did the "accused" get caught with anything?
What time did this happen and did the "accused" get caught with anything?
You missed it by over 2 hours. I didn't hear about any coin being found, but some speculation (v. facts
<< <i>
<< <i>
I'm guessing this is a technicality similar to this scenario:
When smoeone shoplifts, I believe they can not get a conviction unless they wait for the perp (jeez I hate LEO lingo!) to exit the store.
Or maybe that is just urban legend? >>
My sister works at Holister and their boss says not to alert the cops until AFTER they walk out of the store, even if they are caught shoving clothes under their shirt, in bags, etc. I'll have to ask her if it really is stealing if they are still caught in the store (she is also going to college to be a police officer). >>
It may depend on the state. In Missouri back in the 80s, having the items hidden on your person and running for the door was sufficient, you needn't actually leave. The store I used to buy all sorts of hobby items at (train sets, models, coin supplies) prosecuted every shoplifter without exception. Said it was both an insurance and pride issue. He had a big D&D sign near the register that said "SHOPLIFTERS WILL BE KILLED AND EATEN"
This scenario got me thinking and it can happen to anyone if they're not careful. How else could a dispute get settled but with a receipt. I'm amaze the officer didn't have a metal detector device to check the guy who was accused of stealing. But even if the seller didn't have proof the coin was his, how would it be determined who owns coin? Who's to say the dealer wasn't putting a show on to steal the coin himself?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i> But even if the seller didn't have proof the coin was his, how would it be determined who owns coin? Who's to say the dealer wasn't putting a show on to steal the coin himself? Leo >>
I have wondered about that as well Leo.
Particularly, for a raw coin not in 2x2 w/dealers characteristic labeling.
Hypothetically, what if a crook was handed such a coin at a show, and the crook just turns and walks. Police get called in, how do they make the determination of who has title to the disputed coin? It's the dealers word against the crooks word.
Of course, the crook would most likely be barred from attending that show again, so maybe he is a vagabond. (hey! never used that word before!)
Even if the dealer has inventory record for the coin, since most coins aren't unique, how do you prove it is indeed the dealers coin?
Foodude, ain't you one of them lawyerin' types? You up on larceny laws??
Edit: Where is Coinguy1 when you need him?
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Interesting scenario and well put! I guess it would boil down to who could pick the coin out from a line up.
Like you said, most coins aren't unique to make that big of a difference. A mug shot might help though.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
There were at least 2 attorneys with 15 feet of the incident
You up on larceny laws?? I hope not ... oh you mean do I know about them
She said in Ohio that if you try to hide an item you are considered stealing even if you are still IN the store. So I guess if the coin was slipped into the guys pocket, he could be busted for stealing in Ohio at least.
Still shows their true character......
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!