auction madness: 1950-D Jefferson 5¢ sells for $17,250
DennisH
Posts: 14,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, you read that right.
Yesterday afternoon in the Heritage Signature Sale at the Long Beach show, a PCGS MS67FS 1950-D Jefferson nickel (pop 4/0), sold for $17,250 including sales commission. The smallish crowd in the room didn't quite know how to react, but the auctioneer -- genuine wonderment in his voice -- was moved to make a small speech from the podium. He said he wasn't sure which of the two moves by David Hall was more brilliant: Creating PCGS in the first place, or coming up with the Registry Set concept. He seemed as stunned as the audience was at the price of the coin, but pointed out that of the 9 bidders who were on the coin, 3 had bids of at least $10,000.
After leaving the room I went down to the bourse floor and stopped by Art McBride's table. He had a thoroughly presentable PCGS MS66FS 1950-D in his case. The price -- $100. (No I didn't buy it.)
It almost makes the price disparity between PR69DCAM and PR70DCAM moderns look tiny, doesn't it?
Yesterday afternoon in the Heritage Signature Sale at the Long Beach show, a PCGS MS67FS 1950-D Jefferson nickel (pop 4/0), sold for $17,250 including sales commission. The smallish crowd in the room didn't quite know how to react, but the auctioneer -- genuine wonderment in his voice -- was moved to make a small speech from the podium. He said he wasn't sure which of the two moves by David Hall was more brilliant: Creating PCGS in the first place, or coming up with the Registry Set concept. He seemed as stunned as the audience was at the price of the coin, but pointed out that of the 9 bidders who were on the coin, 3 had bids of at least $10,000.
After leaving the room I went down to the bourse floor and stopped by Art McBride's table. He had a thoroughly presentable PCGS MS66FS 1950-D in his case. The price -- $100. (No I didn't buy it.)
It almost makes the price disparity between PR69DCAM and PR70DCAM moderns look tiny, doesn't it?
When in doubt, don't.
0
Comments
<< <i>He had a thoroughly presentable PCGS MS66FS 1950-D in his case. The price -- $100. (No I didn't buy it.) >>
You should have bought it. You could have flipped it on eBay for a tidy profit.
Russ, NCNE
K S
Dennis, did you view the coin, and if so, what was your objective opinion about the quality??
Karl, while you always harp about plastic and "buy the coin", why is it also only the plastic you're considering absent even viewing the coin with your reply??
<< <i>That's pretty close to the price paid for an 1830 LM-5 half dime with obverse cud (an R-7 coin, this one was graded 65 by NGC). Which would you rather have? >>
I guess it would depend on what I had smoked that day, you modern basher, you.
Obscurum per obscurius
Years ago when I belonged to the New Jersey Numismatic Society, they used to have "show and tell." Some of the members, whose names eventually appeared at the top of some major auction catalogs in the 1980s and '90s, usually had some great stuff to show. I was sort of like the poverty person in the group. But I think if I had showed up with a 1950-D nickel to show, I believe the overall reaction would have a univeral rolling of the eyes.
This isn't modern-bashing. It's just an inability to understand why someone would pay 100x more for one coin than for another xample of the same date/mint which was only very slightly less attractive. That would be true for a 1799 Bust Dollar just as it is for a 1950-D Jefferson.
Joe
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>I can think of 4 people that are thrilled with the auction results - the seller and the owners of the other three.
Joe >>
I wonder how many of the other three have already been on the phone to Heritage wanting to consign their coins?
Small potatoes !
I'm still waiting for a 50-D nickel with the Virgin Mary toned into it. When THAT happens - you will see serious money being paid out.
remember the virgin mary toast on eBay?
Al:
No, I did not. Judging from the photos only, I think I would have been impressed by the luster and color. I also suspect I would have agreed with the accuracy of the grade assigned. That said, even with my vivid and sometimes eccentric imagination, I still haven't been able to conceive of a set of circumstances that would lead me to believe this or any 1950-D Jeff is worth $17,250... or even 1/10 that amount.
But that's just me.
<< <i>17 grand for a 50-D nickel.......pfff, big deal, just wait til that 2003 PCGS MS70 penny crosses the block. I've heard that penny is actually the long lost missing coin from the original King of Siam proof set
You modern bashers can laugh all you want, but the 2003 cent in MS70 will one day be seen as the sine qua non of American numismatics. It will put the 1804 silver dollar and 1913 Liberty nickels to shame, for, while there are multiples of them, there is only ONE 2003 cent in PCGS MS70. The Smithsonian will one day showcase it in all its glory and collectors will come from the world around to marvel at its beauty.
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i> there is only ONE 2003 cent in PCGS MS70. The Smithsonian will one day showcase it in all its glory and collectors will come from the world around to marvel at its beauty. >>
<< <i>The smallish crowd in the room didn't quite know how to react, but the auctioneer -- genuine wonderment in his voice -- was moved to make a small speech from the podium. He said he wasn't sure which of the two moves by David Hall was more brilliant: Creating PCGS in the first place, or coming up with the Registry Set concept. He seemed as stunned as the audience was at the price of the coin, but pointed out that of the 9 bidders who were on the coin, 3 had bids of at least $10,000. >>
This is a little surprising to me as well since the '50-D comes pretty nice. Still MS-67 with a great strike
is most unusual. This is one of those few moderns where there really are large numbers to check. This
isn't to say there will be plenty more just that MS-65's aren't tough.
This is really a little different situation than with the '03 Lincoln simply because the Lincoln is the highest
grade of all Lincolns rather than a mere "pop top".
I guess I should have paid more attention to the classics too.
Is it only OK to pay obscene sums for FULL STEP rarity, but not for HIGH GRADE rarity?
my wonder about anyone seeing the coin is that i feel sure it's probably a superior gem and at least three collectors/dealers realized that and wanted it. the presumption that the coin was bid high by a dummy Registry Set collector with more dollars than sense is quite probably irrational, as is the presumption that there are unfound as yet countless MS67FS 1950-D Nickels. look at the pop numbers if you have the time and you should see that by the late 1940's the Master Die and so, the subsequent working dies were starting to fail in their ability to fully strike the tough Cu/Ni planchets. many of the 1950's Full Step designated coins have weak overall detail. if this coin had crisp detail(which your comment about the luster leads me to believe) which was accentuated by attractive color than it is indeed special, but just how special is up to those three bidders.
individually, we always tend to think certain things about the other guy. i almost certainly wouldn't pay anywhere near that price for the coin but i can still accept that it was worth the price someone paid. grading being the subjective thing that it is, we are each held suspect when we pay for a grade rarity. true rarity is always better and high grade true rarity is always best.
hey the buyer thinks he can get an upgrade to a MS68 FS
I checked the top ten FS Basic Sets and only the number 1 set has a 50-D in 67. Guess we can check in a couple of weeks to see if anyone moved up, but I can't imagine spending that kind of money to move up a spot or two. Upgrade idea might make sense; nothing like a pop 1 coin to light up a collection.
Joe
Actually rarer in circulated condition but common in Unc grades.
........ if you are a millioniar
.......... and you want low pop. coins for your Registry set
.......... then money is no object
THERE ARE A HELLOVA` LOT OF RICH PEOPLE-SOME COLLECT COINS
WHATS REDICULOUS SUMS TO US ARE MERE PIDDENCES TO THEM
I keep wondering why the Herirage page says the sale was on September 16
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>I can think of 4 people that are thrilled with the auction results - the seller and the owners of the other three. >>
Definitely 5 - makes me wonder what a 1946S MS67FS and a 1960P MS66FS both pop 1s would be worth? BTW my max bid didn't even make the top 4 bids.
My Jefferson Full Step Variety Set (1938 - Current)
My Jefferson Proof Variety Set (1938 - Current)
<< <i>If I am correct, the mintage of the 1950-D nickel was known very early and some very astute types purchased a large % of them before they could be circulated effectively cornering the market. They were sold off in rolls since 40 years and there are still occasional BU rolls sold.
Actually rarer in circulated condition but common in Unc grades. >>
This coin actually has a very storied and interesting history.
The economy was slow in the late '40's and many blamed it on a echo from the great
depression and some even thought the depression was returning with the war over.
Coin demand was low in 1950 which meant low mintages in Denver and Philadelphia
with no coins at all from San Francisco. The coins mostly went into storage waiting for
demand to return. After the "fiasco" in 1932 where a dealer offered the mint to buy the
entire mintage of '31-S Lincolns, there was a new policy against making short mint runs
and this was the shortest for a low denomination since with a little more than 2 1/2 mil-
lion coins minted. People quickly realized how low the mintage was on these and they
were hoarded widely. One dealer in Texas was said to have accumulated 100,000 of
them. Rampant speculation started around 1956 or 7 when the 55 DDO cent came to the
attention of the public. There were many millions of young baby boomers who were being
drawn to the hobby by these events and the introduction of the memorial cent. Even the
Roosy dime was new in those days and the hobby was growing in leaps and bounds. By
1960 a roll of the '50-D's had hit prices as high as $100 and just kept climbing. Many peo-
ple saw this as the beginning of an era where there wouldn't be enough nice unc coins
for the boomers as they matured and concentrated more on uncs. All sorts of recent rolls
and bags were appreciating by 1962 and the '50-D just kept climbing.
Indeed in 1964 a bag of '50-D nickels climbed over $600,000 in todays money! In those
days very few were very concerned with quality. If a coin was nice, then it was collectible.
If it wasn't then it would just end up in someone else's collection. These markets tanked
when clad came into circulation. Clad may not have been the direct cause since the govern-
ment and mint were taking many steps to discourage collectors but it was apparent that
future collectors weren't going to have much interest in any of these coins. Of course, the
extensive hoarding also made all these coins incredibly common.
The '50-D has had a lot of attrition over the years and it did start from a lower base than
many coins of the era. Nearly 1% of objects like this are lost every year to fires, floods and
other catastrophies. This does add up over half a century.
<< <i>Why is this any different than the 68-D FS nickel that Clackamas made, vis-a-vis condition rarity? We were all high fiving him because he made a $30,000 coin.
Is it only OK to pay obscene sums for FULL STEP rarity, but not for HIGH GRADE rarity? >>
I still own it, The real offers were substantially lower. I never needed the money so I never pulled the trigger on a sale. The two situations are very different. the 68-D is unique in full steps, while the 50-D is common in full steps.
<< <i>I still own it, The real offers were substantially lower. I never needed the money so I never pulled the trigger on a sale. The two situations are very different. the 68-D is unique in full steps, while the 50-D is common in full steps. >>
I understand the distinction, I just don't understand why there is more criticism for paying up for high grades than for paying up for full steps.
When you put together a top set, you want a top set. I have had the top set for 1968 for a few years now, but I still went after improvements. I wanted the best regardless of who was below me and how far. I am still trying to improve the set and when a 66FS 68-S Jeff comes on the market it will be mine - If it is actually better than my 65FS.
Its funny, I am sitting here going through 30 rolls of 2002-D Jeffs trying to find a 66FS and maybe even a 67FS. The quest for the best for my daughters 2002 set. I understand not wanting to put the time in and paying someone else to do the leg work.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Wondercoin
...for stealth post
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Just another idea whose time has come to more accurately describe and grade this series...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
better have jelly in it.
Camelot
no new designation or grading approach is needed, only adherance to the one which is already in place. as a matter of fact, NGC lowered their standard to give the "5 Full Steps" designation, moving backwards in my mind. in a way their doing so was almost an admission to the collectors paying attention that the series in Gem fully struck condition is very scarce since they had previously required 6 Full Steps. my perception of what's been happening(at least with PCGS graded coins) is that their standard of no pre/post contact marks on the steps or any bridges between the steps has largely been ignored lately if the steps were struck up fully. i see coin after coin after coin with glaing marks through the step area and it seems like it's a development from the past 2-3 years.
allowing that kind of stuff to flood the marketplace only encourages submitters to certify like-appearing coins which adds to the problem. if collectors who truly understand the series and the criteria for the designation will only hold the line, many of the coins in holders will languish or sell for much lower prices. at the same time, true Full Stepo coins will again be recognized for their true scarcity and the Six Steppers will be seen as worthy of the steep premiums they command.
all the sub-par coins should actually be in ANACS holders due to that service's accepted approach of adding step quarters to arrive at a total count. if you follow pricing youd see that the collectors understand this and pay accordingly.
<< <i>I guess to the buyer this must be numismatic treasure but what about the astute seller that slabbed it and made a huge killing. Wow! I may finally buy a roll of these afterall. >>
Of course you aren't the first person to get this idea.
There are lots of cherries remaining to be picked in the moderns and this is part of their allure. There
are no doubt many very desirable varieties and gems just mixed in with the junk. Many people have
gotten into one segment or another largely just to make money and discovered just how much fun they
can be. It was "investment" which initially brought me to moderns though over the years I care more
about just finishing my sets and looking for the coins.
Don't expect to make any money right away though. The odds of finding a coin like this are very slim.
If you keep looking you will find something though, even if not an MS-67 '50-D 5c.
consider $17,250 cheap.