"Numismatic Gladiator" II (Stork vs. Swampboy)

lordmarcovan · May 21, 2016 6:36AM

WELCOME TO NUMISMATIC GLADIATOR II!

To see how the games began, refer to the earlier competition.

Numismatic Gladiator I (Aethelred vs. lordmarcovan: Roman Imperial coins under $20.00- Aethelred won)

And now we have:

Numismatic Gladiator II (Stork vs. Swampboy: pre-1800 dated world coins under $20.00- this competition)

1. Both contestants agreed to purchase a single coin from the assigned category.

2. The coin had to cost no more than $20.00 US.

3. In order to avoid either contestant having an advantage, contestants agreed to buy their coins from the same venue at a fixed price.

4. Shipping was not included in the $20.00 limit.

5. You can now vote on which coin you like best without knowing which coin belongs to whom. That will be revealed at the end.

6. The person whose coin receives the most votes gets bragging rights and a sigline trophy.

(And the cool coin they purchased, obviously.)

This cointest will run until midnight Eastern on Saturday, May 28, 2016.

Vote for whichever coin appeals to you most.

This need not be the one that is more monetarily valuable. Catalog and/or retail value should be weighed into the decision, of course, but this cointest is about overall desirability - eye appeal, history, design, etc. It is much more about collecting fun than "investment" value.

The coins are presented here in chronological order, in similar sized images (though note that the actual coins themselves may differ widely in physical size).

Which do you like better?

COIN A: 1776-EM Russia 5-kopeks, @ $19.99 from eBay.

Krause/NGC price guide listing

COIN B: 1780 Netherlands (Holland) duit, @ $20.00 from eBay.

Krause/NGC price guide listing

Hats off to our cointestants! May the "best" coin win!

FINAL RESULTS: Coin B, Swampboy's Dutch coin, won!

Which coin do you like better, for the money? (Total Votes: 66)

A- the 1776-EM Russia 5-kopeks, @ $19.99

21 votes 31.82 (%)

B- the 1780 Netherlands (Holland) duit @ $20.00

38 votes 57.58 (%)

C- I can't decide- they're both great for the money

3 votes 4.55 (%)

D- Neither- they both suck

3 votes 4.55 (%)

E- I'm totally neutral

lordmarcovan · May 21, 2016 6:57AM

So this time we ended up with two 18th century European copper coins, struck within about four years of one another.

Once again, I voted the "C- they're both great" option.

This is not because I felt I duty-bound to neutrality in my role as pollmaster, but because I genuinely had a hard time choosing. Had I really liked one significantly more than the other, I would have chosen it.

Coin A, the Russian 5-kopeck piece, is a popular type. This one was struck under the reign of Catherine the Great, so it has plenty of historical appeal. (Also a 1776 date, to appeal to Americans.) And these are huge, chunky, thick pieces. I've often fondly referred to them as "whopper coppers". I think this was a good pick at the price, and in my experience prices on these usually outpace catalog values by a little bit. The last time I personally bought any of these was for $20, as it happens, but that was at the FUN show in 2003, and I haven't seen too many in that pricerange since.

Coin B, the Dutch duit, is a cool design. Copper duits are popular and affordable 18th century coins. I predicted to my fellow contest organizer Aethelred that at least one of the coins in this round would end up being a Dutch duit, and I was correct. However, I predicted it would be a "VOC" East India type, and the one in play is a Holland design that is in my opinion a little more appealing and (for me, at least) slightly less often seen. Furthermore, it's in nice condition. I personally would say at least XF with nice surfaces.

So Coin A has size and heft, and Coin B has cool design and higher grade. I think both have plenty going for them.

Aethelred · May 21, 2016 7:05AM

I am not going to reveal how I vote and I will save my vote until later because this is going to be a really hard choice. Both Gladiators have made very solid choices and I think we are in for another tight race.

lordmarcovan · May 21, 2016 7:10AM

I have posted a link to this thread on the US Coin Forum too, so the Litesiders can watch.

(Hint: the upcoming NG3 will be a Liteside competition...)

We can also do Canadian, Exonumia, British, medieval/hammered, and other categories in the future. At some point (perhaps around NG5) Aethelred and I will also have a rematch.

epcjimi1 · May 21, 2016 7:43AM

Hmm. Tough choice. Double headed Russian eagle vs. crazed lion in a pen with a pole and a cap.

HOLANDIA 1780, my vote

I'll go lion / Holandia., but wonder what reverse script appears on the back of the Russian coin. My guess is it's somebody the second, judging by the double bars in the center.

lordmarcovan · May 21, 2016 8:08AM

Originally posted by: epcjimi1

... wonder what reverse script appears on the back of the Russian coin. My guess is it's somebody the second, judging by the double bars in the center.

That would be Catherine II, better known to history as "Catherine the Great".

(The "E" in the monogram would be from the Russian "Ekaterina", I believe, and the "E-M" on the eagle side a mintmark for the city of Ekaterinburg.)

Side by side in hand, the huge Russian coin would physically dwarf the Dutch one in diameter,thickness, and weight, but that doesn't mean the Dutch coin is tiny. If memory serves me, the latter is roughly the diameter of as US nickel five-cent piece.

Andres · May 21, 2016 9:24AM

Voted for the dutch duit 1780 , HOLLLANDIA stands for the province / state of Holland , the Netherlands are all the provinces / states together united,just like the USA.
the dutch lion holds a spear with the cap/hat of liberty , standing in the socalled Dutch garden fenced and with the gate closed, minted in Dordrecht Holland
I live nearby so how could I vote differently then for this very nice coin.

lordmarcovan · May 21, 2016 9:29AM

Andres, considering your nationality, I knew how you were going to vote. I reckon you did your patriotic duty.

TopographicOceans · May 21, 2016 10:18PM

#2 is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE

Did I win?

TwoKopeiki · May 22, 2016 1:18AM

Love those big Russian copper pucks!

SeattleSlammer · May 22, 2016 2:52AM

Way cool thread.

joeykoins · May 22, 2016 3:10AM

Cool! I voted for the Russia Coin. It looks off center!

Boosibri · May 22, 2016 3:46AM

I voted for #2 which I think looks much more wholesome

lordmarcovan · May 22, 2016 5:04AM

Originally posted by: joeykoins

Cool! I voted for the Russia Coin. It looks off center!

Those often are.

marcmoish · May 22, 2016 6:09AM

Also voted for the door stopper - and yes they almost always off-centered!

mnemtsas2 · May 22, 2016 8:28AM

I prefer the Duit.

Jackthecat1 · May 22, 2016 9:32AM

I voted for the 5 Kopek, but it was extremely close.

Aethelred · May 22, 2016 10:59AM

To me this is a VERY difficult choice:

I like the Russian coin because it is a big hunk of copper and is dated 1776.

but,

The Dutch coin has a great design and eye appeal.

I have not voted yet.

garrynot · May 22, 2016 9:28PM

I'm a sucker for the royal eagle. Russian coins were very well designed in that era.

ajaan · May 23, 2016 12:20AM

Once again I'll stick to my secret ballot.

asheland · May 23, 2016 1:36AM

Originally posted by: TwoKopeiki
Love those big Russian copper pucks!

Yep!
(A) for me
But, indeed, both are cool!

Aethelred · May 23, 2016 3:43AM

I finally decided and voted, but it wasn't easy!

Bob1951 · May 23, 2016 6:28AM

I voted for the second one. The design is kinda neat. As for the Russian coin there are a lot of them around. The1776 date though is a plus.

Aethelred · May 24, 2016 10:12AM

Okay, I have been told that the object enclosing the lion is a fence and a garter, does anyone know for sure what the lion is standing in?

Andres · May 24, 2016 10:17AM

In a garden, its called in dutch ""de Hollandse tuin"" = the dutch garden, there are others like these, at the fence at the inside are the shields of all the dutch provinces guarded by the lion.

lordmarcovan · May 24, 2016 10:24AM

I knew it was supposed to be a garden, but it strikes me as a rather barren one. I mean, c'mon, it's Holland, at least plant some tulips in there or something!

PS- dear Dutch people- if you're going to keep a rather enormous bipedal lion confined in your garden, might I also suggest that you build a fence higher than his kneecaps? Otherwise he might get out and do damage to windmills, dykes, and wooden-clog-wearing schoolchildren.

Aethelred · May 24, 2016 11:00AM

A garden huh? I have a problem with cats killing birds in my yard, but in Holland, with lions in the garden I guess I'd be finding dead neighbors.

lordmarcovan · May 24, 2016 11:19AM

Originally posted by: Aethelred

A garden huh? I have a problem with cats killing birds in my yard, but in Holland, with lions in the garden I guess I'd be finding dead neighbors.

See? Sometimes lions can be useful.

Andres · May 24, 2016 8:28PM

TwoKopeiki · May 24, 2016 9:22PM

Young Catherine does not approve

asheland · May 25, 2016 1:17AM

Originally posted by: Aethelred
A garden huh? I have a problem with cats killing birds in my yard, but in Holland, with lions in the garden I guess I'd be finding dead neighbors.

Did somebody say Lion?

lordmarcovan · May 25, 2016 1:50AM

Originally posted by: asheland

Originally posted by: Aethelred

A garden huh? I have a problem with cats killing birds in my yard, but in Holland, with lions in the garden I guess I'd be finding dead neighbors.

Did somebody say Lion?

Nah, not really. He was lion about that when he told that story.

asheland · May 25, 2016 2:27AM

CoinZip · May 25, 2016 11:55AM

I'm going to abstain on this one.... just cause it's ebay.

lordmarcovan · May 25, 2016 4:24PM

Originally posted by: CoinZip

I'm going to abstain on this one.... just cause it's ebay.

Nobody's asking you to buy a coin on eBay. Our two gladiators already did that.

lordmarcovan · May 28, 2016 7:23AM

OK, sorry. I let Friday night pass me by.

So, without further ado,

The winner is...

Coin B- the Netherlands/Holland 1780 duit!

And that coin was purchased by...

Swampboy!

Congratulations, Gil! Well chosen! Here is your trophy!

Cathy, aka "Stork", bought the 1776 Catherine the Great Russian coin, which, though it got eclipsed in this very unscientific popularity contest, was not a bad choice at all for the money.

Thanks for participating, Cathy!

(See? Y'all get it now? Cathy? Catherine the Great?)

Andres · May 28, 2016 10:25AM

Congrats, Swampboy Gladiator

Aethelred · May 28, 2016 9:54PM

My hat is off to the newest Numismatic Gladiator.

I think both coins were well selected and this contest has shown that you can buy a lot of coin for just a little money.

Later today I hope to be posting a thread were you can put your name in the running for NG III, if you think you have what it takes to compete in the NG Arena.

Stork · May 28, 2016 11:58PM

The lion is awesome! Congrats to Swampboy, and I wish I'd seen that coin too

.

This was a hard challenge considering I don't search for this category much. I strongly recommend others give the next challenge a try...tons of fun looking for something when you don't know what it is yet

Aethelred · May 29, 2016 7:32AM

I am glad you had fun Cathy!

Swampboy · May 30, 2016 10:22AM

Well I'm just back from a whirlwind weekend of traveling and just getting a chance post my thanks to the Directors for hosting this really enjoyable event.

I sure would encourage anyone to throw their name in the hat for NGIII if only to have their numismatic horizons broadened a bit as mine surely were.

Once I got the tap on the shoulder and read the rules I spent some pleasant hours going through my Krauses 1601-1700, 1701-1800 looking for potential purchases that were $20 or less and also some visual appeal.

As I was casting about The Bay with no result my 'Duit' search pulled up the winning entry. The coin's design and, as Bossibri mentioned, its 'wholesome' look sealed the deal for me.

Thanks to the voters and thank your Andres for your posts explaining the symbolism of the 'Dutch garden'.

I'm beginning my search for another interesting 'lion loose in the garden' type and I'm toasting Cathy

as I begin my search for a 1776 5 kopek.

More fun!

Edit typos

pmac · May 30, 2016 11:11PM

I thought it was called a "tuit", as in I get a round tuit.

LochNESS · August 2, 2016 8:26PM

LOVED reading this thread. Learned a lot from NG I comments. Wasn't sure that experience would be repeated so easily, but here came NG II with just as much fun and knowledge. Swampboy's capstone post was a great way to sum it all up in style. Really excited to dive into NG III, after I catch some Zzz's.

edited to add: I voted for the Dutch Duit, and was surprised to learn it had only received 20-something votes at the time of the winning tally. I believe the results showed it is now past 40 votes. Strong leader!

lordmarcovan · August 2, 2016 8:45PM

Originally posted by: LochNESS

LOVED reading this thread. Learned a lot from NG I comments. Wasn't sure that experience would be repeated so easily, but here came NG II with just as much fun and knowledge. Swampboy's capstone post was a great way to sum it all up in style. Really excited to dive into NG III, after I catch some Zzz's.

edited to add: I voted for the Dutch Duit, and was surprised to learn it had only received 20-something votes at the time of the winning tally. I believe the results showed it is now past 40 votes. Strong leader!

That's awesome to hear. I'm glad somebody reads these threads, and hopefully they liven up the place a bit. It's kind of been Sleepytown lately.

Stork · August 4, 2016 2:27AM

I realized I was remiss in not posting a picture of my purchase yet. Catherine and 1776

I'll be happily keeping this, though I do love that lion-stuck-in-someone's-garden a lot too.

lordmarcovan · August 4, 2016 4:51PM

They were both great.

And your Russian Whopper Copper can be used as a projectile weapon in a pinch.

If some sketchy character jumps out of a dark alley at you, reach into your pocket and fling that at him.

More stopping power than a .357 Magnum, if slung hard enough.

"Numismatic Gladiator" II (Stork vs. Swampboy)

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