IHC 1864 BR Concentric Die Lines

Comments

• Placid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 12:28AM

  

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• Placid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 12:29AM

  The lines are from the die (raised) and not from friction.
  
  According to Rick Snow it may have been an unsatisfactory die that had the design re-engraved in it to expedite the minting process.
  

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• Jamericon Posts: 439 ✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 12:29AM

  These are lines left from the tracing arms of the reducing lathe. On very well struck coins, especially proofs, they are sometimes noticable.

  Jamie Yakes - U.S. paper money collector, researcher, and author. | Join the SPMCUS Small-Size Notes, National Bank Notes, and NJ Depression Scrip

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• tjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 12:45AM

  I have a very nice example in my collection, looks kinda cool. Left over from the reducing lathe.
  
  Tom

  Tom
  
  

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• CaptainRon Posts: 1,189 ✭✭

  December 19, 2003 1:17AM

  Thanks guys,
  
  Boy I was hoping it was something else.
  Do you guys know if clashed die strikes also have designated S-#'s
  
  Thanks again

  

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• IrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 1:21AM

  Very cool coin, would love to own it.

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• Lakesammman Posts: 17,449 ✭✭✭✭✭

  December 19, 2003 2:43AM

  I've been trying to understand this one for a while. It would seem since there are a fair number of them that the lathe lines would have occured at the master die level or before with alot of working dies being made subsequently. The interesting thing is, the same process was used for other coins of the era, so why is this one common?? Did they simply forget a step in the preparation of master dies or hubs???
  
  This variety was recently added to the Fly-In club census (Link) as it is a interesting variety. I have a later die state coin too with the lines fading away.
  
  Thanks for sharing it. If you want to add it to the census, and you know it hasn't been previously reported, let me know. Also, we need a good picture for the tables. If OK with you, could I have Shylock add yours?? Please PM me, if willing.

  "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.

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• Conder101 Posts: 10,536 ✭

  December 19, 2003 2:31PM

  These die reduction lines are found on other coins of that era as well. They are especially common on shield nickels, mainly behind the cross, through the botoms of the stripes and sometimes through the "wreath". I have also seen them through the stars on the reverse, especially on the with rays type. One reason why these dies with reduction lines sudenly started appearing my have to do with an over-worked engraving department.
  
  Up until 1857 the engraving department was having to produced a few hundred dies per year for the entire annual mint production. With the introduction of nickel to the coinage complaints of excessive die wear and breakage because of the hard alloy began to be heard in mint correspondance and the number of dies required began to rise. The real difficulties began in 1865 and 66 with the introcuction of the coppernickel three and five cent pieces. Die life on these coins was horrible! The other denominations tended to have die lives of between 100,000 to 200,000 coins, the die life of a shield nickel die was between ten and eighteen thousand coins. (By the end of the series they had gotten it up to only 23,000.) So the engraving department which tn ten years earlier was making a few hundred dies a year for the total output, was now having to produce almost a thousand just for the nickel five cent piece. I would not be surprized if the die life of the three cent piece was similar. If so, in ten years the output of the engraving dept had increased almost five or six fold. Being pressed upon to produce that many dies it would not be surprizing that corners were cut, dies and hubs not properly polished etc. and the die reduction lines and Longacre doubling became prevelant.

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• Newmismatist Posts: 1,802 ✭✭

  December 19, 2003 3:18PM

  I once owned an 1864 also with these concentric raised die lines - I sold it to Rick Snow and he subsequently wrote an article about that coin for the Longacre Journal - You might be able to find the article on the Archives section of the Fly-In club website Fly-In club website link
  
  THere's lots of great articles (click on the Longacre Ledger Archives - lower left on the home page). Didn't see the 1864 Article so next try is to contact Rick Snow at Eagle Eye Eagle Eye Link and see if he can send you a copy of the 1864 Article - (If you can't find the article anywhere, I'm sure I have a copy, just a Q of where I put it for safe keeping)
  

  Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
  
  “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
  Newmismatist

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