Japan recommendations needed

DennisH · November 22, 2011 12:04PM

I spent a week in Tokyo earlier this month. It was my first visit and I enjoyed it tremendously. Now I want to find a coin memento, and I'm looking for help from people who know Japanese coinage... because I have no clue whatsoever.

I like big.
I like silver.
I like old.
I can afford something decent.
Whatever I get will go to PCGS.

Any suggestions?

santelia · November 22, 2011 12:10PM

santelia · November 22, 2011 12:20PM

Japan does not have a long history of coinage. For centuries they used Chinese coins (called cash, for the square hole in a round coin). Silver was very rare in both places, unlike the US. Most coins were copper or bronze; gold and silver were saved for medals and commemoratives. Before you spend a bunch of money, may I suggest buying some books. I am hoping to get David Hartill's new book on Early Japanese Coinage for Xmas.
Try here for some info: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/roberts/coins/Japancash.html. There are some very knowledgeable people of this site for Japanese coinage; I only dabble.

DennisH · November 22, 2011 12:49PM

Santella: Thank you most kindly for both your comments and the link.

1960NYGiants · November 22, 2011 1:28PM

I have a consignment piece: 1901 (year 34) 50 Sen (size of US 50c) in an NGC MS62 holder, Krause #Y25 and valued at $375 in UNC and $1200 in BU. It's about 70% white with very nice luster. I agree with the grade. The owner is asking $550 for it.

I've been trying to get a good scan of it but am having difficulty getting my danged scanner to understand me. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.

Stork · November 22, 2011 6:25PM

If you want big and silver and, depending on your definition of old and how much you want to spend, I would suggest a Meiji era 1 yen. You can find some in gem quality with a little poking around.

If you want to go another way you can get a chopmarked one as well (gmarguli has an extremely chopped version in a PCGS slab) which is cool (IMO).

Clark Smith is a primarily gold dealer but he goes to the big annual spring Tokyo show with his Japanese wife and will often have non-gold Japanese coins.

I've seen nice ones at Teller and NEN as well (nothing right now) and even the occasional goody on ebay. And with Civitas too-- my current Meiji 3 1 yen representative in my somewhat battered Japan Type Set Dansco came from there. It's an XF, but pretty darn cool to have something from the first year of the western style coinage.

Buying raw can be a little dicey as there are some heavily counterfeited ones out there, so unless you have your scale/calipers and more knowledge than me be wary. I have one which is most likely a counterfeit that I bought in Baltimore...live n' learn on that one.

In any case, for big/silver/old I vote for the Meiji 1 yen.

I took a trip earlier in the year to the Osaka Mint which was great fun. There was an excellent video presentation that they ran the English version of when they saw us--even my kids found it interesting

. The museum upstairs had some absolutely fabulous coins as well. If you go back to Japan and happen to get a chance to go to Osaka I highly recommend it.

When I get home I'll try and dig up my favorite website that explains dating and my books that have a few explanations. This may be a little more than you are interested in right now!

For anyone else interested in a large, silver, more modern coin there are several examples of the 1964 Tokyo 1000 yen in PCGS slabs. This is a popular choice as well, and the Mount Fuji theme is very nice.

I miss Japan.

Cathy

Stork · November 22, 2011 6:27PM

<< <i>Japan does not have a long history of coinage. For centuries they used Chinese coins (called cash, for the square hole in a round coin). Silver was very rare in both places, unlike the US. Most coins were copper or bronze; gold and silver were saved for medals and commemoratives. Before you spend a bunch of money, may I suggest buying some books. I am hoping to get David Hartill's new book on Early Japanese Coinage for Xmas.
Try here for some info: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/roberts/coins/Japancash.html. There are some very knowledgeable people of this site for Japanese coinage; I only dabble. >>

I never got too much into the pre-Meiji stuff, but that looks like an excellent Christmas present. Thanks!

Cathy

DennisH · November 23, 2011 12:30AM

Cathy: I'd love to give you a hug for your great comments. Your post sent me over to browse through the Heritage photo archives and see what Meiji era 1 yen are. Bingo! It looks like I have found my objective. (I also learned how incredibly rare some of the early ones are!)

Timbuk3 · November 23, 2011 6:21AM

Japan does have a history of coin use. Many of their older pre-Meiji coins including Oban Kin (large oblong gold coin) and Chogin (oblong
silver coin) were used among various war lords (daimyo's) and merchants. The smaller oblong gold coin called Koban Kin were used by
the wealthier public. The most common coin for most people were Kanei Tsuho, also know as the "Chinese" cash coin. However, these
types of coins has a history of being introduced from China to Japan a early as the 6the century A.D. During the Meiji Period (1868-1912)
Japan intoduced the 1 sen up to the large 1 yen. To make a long story short, I would recommend that you look for a nice unc. 1 yen, which
is about the size of a U.S. silver dollar weighing in at 26.96 grams with a composition on 90% silver and 10% copper.

Stork · November 23, 2011 10:15PM

No problem Dennis

I was stationed in Japan twice now so I do love the coins. I hardly a strong student of them, if Roy (Satootoko) or Sumnon check in I'm sure they can tell you a lot more.

Here is a website with a nice description for the dating criteria:
Lion Coins

A couple of older books that can be found intermittently on ebay or, now it appears, Amazon are these two. They are old but interesting:
Cumming's Modern Japanese Coinage, I have a second edition I was able to get from the author from ebay before he passed away. He was very nice about getting the occasional random ebay email question.

and

Jacobs and Vermeule's Japanese Coinage. Heritage recently had an auction with Jacob's collection...some amazing rarities!

Here is one about the modern mint development. The price tag is extreme, but after my visit to Osaka the topic much more interesting! Thomas William Kinder and the Japanese Mint

The JNDA catalog (Japan Numismatic Dealer Association) is the annual price guide. In Japanese but with help from some Japanese friends I was able to use it and understand some of the nuances regarding the varieties. This one on ebay is hideously overpriced JNDA 2012. I'll be looking for an alternative source, or skipping 2012.

This is probably way more than you need right now! But do look at the dating website--it's great!

Cathy

satootoko · November 28, 2011 12:40AM

Scott Semans is the best US source for the JNDA catalog. He carries an extensive list of coin-related publications, and can frequently find something you want that isn't currently in his stock. He's also got the new Hartil book, which, so far as I am aware, is the first English language book on Japanese coinage since Mike Cummings' Second Edition published in the late '70s.

So far as the original inquiry goes, I totally agree that the Meiji yen or the 1964 Olympics Mr. Fuji coin would be great choices, but for a "collection centerpiece" I would probably lean toward a "gin" stamped Trade Dollar, preferably from the Tokyo mint (stamped on the right). They're just a tad (4 grains) heavier than the yen, and the ones stamped in Tokyo are considerably more rare, especially in high grades.

Personally I dislike chop-marked coins, which usually mar the underlying design, but the mint stamping is in the field, and visually attractive IMHO.

Japan recommendations needed

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