Earliest slabbed MS coins?
worldcoinguy
Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭✭
I was experiencing some post holiday mind wandering today at work and wondered what the earliest coins have been graded at MS-65 - MS-69 in the world coin arena. Does anybody know what countries/dates stand out as the "first of a kind" in each grade? I was wondering about NGC and PCGS in particular.
If I were to take a random guess, it would be the following (no particular rationale involved):
MS-69 - late 1800s
MS-68 - early 1800s
MS-67 - mid 1700s
MS-66 - early 1600s
MS-65 - late 1500s
If I were to take a random guess, it would be the following (no particular rationale involved):
MS-69 - late 1800s
MS-68 - early 1800s
MS-67 - mid 1700s
MS-66 - early 1600s
MS-65 - late 1500s
0
Comments
PCGS:
MS-65: 1678 Nurnberg (German State) Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Salzburg 2 Kreuzer
MS-67: 1743 Great Britain Maundy Penny
MS-68: 1827 Zurich (Swiss Canton) 3 Haller
NGC:
MS-65: 1672 Silesia (German State) 6 Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Saint Gall (Swiss Canton) Kreuzer
MS-67: 1859 Bavaria (German State) Kreuzer
My World Coin Type Set
earliest 68 is a 1860 A Prussia Groschen
earliest 67 is a 1819 GB Shilling
earliest 66 is a GB 1771 Halfpenny in 66RB
earliest 65 is a GB 1788 Proof Halfpenny pattern
The big coins, such as the taler Zohar mentioned, are really tough to find in high grade.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
This is what a 64 looks like in this 2 Taler
and a 64 from the early 17th century.
Here they are (grades by NGC):
1717/6 Salzburg 2k MS68
also
1696 Salzburg 1k MS67
The question was running through my head after seeing a 1754 Kreuzer from Regensberg on eBay right now in a NGC MS-67 holder. Sorry if I blew somebody's secret.
<< <i>I know someone on this forum with a beautiful MS-66 17th centrury Taler - care to post
Dumb luck put me in the right place at the right time to find this one. I think the grade reflects the exquisite detail in the strike more than the patina.
This is a 1422-53 PCGS MS 64 from my collection
This is 1678 PCGS MS-65
These are my oldest top grades.
FOR SALE Items
Wcg, I don't believe (just a guess) that any of the two companies ever gave an MS69 to any coin older than 90-100 years. Prove me wrong guys. Some early 20th century Swiss, Japanese and Austrian coins could theoretically go so high, and for the Swiss ones, I know it for a fact that MS69s exist, but it's still a 91 year old coin (1920 franc) and a more recent one (1931 10 rappen), at least the ones I owned.
I remember once, when we were still allowed to do SSPs and to have our weekly BST here, a George V Maundy set was offered for the hefty price of $500 and the best grade was the 3d I think, PCGS MS68. JamminJ was a master in locating mostly German States and Austrian minors from such early periods that would later get such wow supergrades, and I'll bet that some at least came from Karl.
Zohar, both talers are superb, but I prefer the 64, just my personal opinion. The 65 is too dark for my taste.
Theboz, no matter how many times you post that gold coin, I'm drooling.
Anyway, wcg, this thread was a breath of fresh air. Superb coins posted, with or without image.
And silvereagle2 has yet to post something in this thread.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>Hi James, we missed you.
Wcg, I don't believe (just a guess) that any of the two companies ever gave an MS69 to any coin older than 90-100 years. Prove me wrong guys. Some early 20th century Swiss, Japanese and Austrian coins could theoretically go so high, and for the Swiss ones, I know it for a fact that MS69s exist, but it's still a 91 year old coin (1920 franc) and a more recent one (1931 10 rappen), at least the ones I owned.
I remember once, when we were still allowed to do SSPs and to have our weekly BST here, a George V Maundy set was offered for the hefty price of $500 and the best grade was the 3d I think, PCGS MS68. JamminJ was a master in locating mostly German States and Austrian minors from such early periods that would later get such wow supergrades, and I'll bet that some at least came from Karl.
Zohar, both talers are superb, but I prefer the 64, just my personal opinion. The 65 is too dark for my taste.
Anyway, wcg, this thread was a breath of fresh air. Superb coins posted, with or without image.
And silvereagle2 has yet to post something in this thread.
I know where a MS69 (PCGS) 1866 1 Kreuzer of Frankfurt is located. BTW. it's not mine, mine is a 68
3Mark
My only ever purchase of an 1860something groschen also graded MS68. Somehow groschens and kreuzers are very well received by graders.
myEbay
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<< <i>Can't answer your question, but I can report my earliest coins for each grade and each service ...
PCGS:
MS-65: 1678 Nurnberg (German State) Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Salzburg 2 Kreuzer
MS-67: 1743 Great Britain Maundy Penny
MS-68: 1827 Zurich (Swiss Canton) 3 Haller
NGC:
MS-65: 1672 Silesia (German State) 6 Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Saint Gall (Swiss Canton) Kreuzer
MS-67: 1859 Bavaria (German State) Kreuzer >>
PBRat - very nice! Any pics of those pieces? I would love to see the Salzburg piece, Nurnberg, and Silesia pieces.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Unfortunately, no pics. Coin photography is a hobby I intend to pursue ... once I have some spare time and aren't chasing kids with every free moment. When I do get around to it, I'll put these at the top of the list, and post them here.
My 1678 Nurnberg Kreuzer is quite a bit different from theboz11's. The double cross on my piece is much thicker, and is surrounded by an oval instead of a circle. My piece lacks the diamonds in the obverse legend. The shield of the reverse is also oval, not somewhat heart shaped like theboz11's piece. The baroque frame on my piece is more detailed, though everything gets quite mushy around the N below the shield. (ya, I know ... a picture would be much worth more than these 74 words)
My World Coin Type Set
Did anyone see the 1687 James II Crown graded MS63 in the Heritage Auction?
I will also ask if anyone looked at the 1708 Ann Crown graded AU53
in the same auction-
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>
Dumb luck put me in the right place at the right time to find this one. I think the grade reflects the exquisite detail in the strike more than the patina.
Woah! That's a looker fo' sure!
PCGS:
MS-65: 1678 Nurnberg (German State) Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Salzburg 2 Kreuzer
MS-67: 1743 Great Britain Maundy Penny
MS-68: 1827 Zurich (Swiss Canton) 3 Haller
NGC:
MS-65: 1672 Silesia (German State) 6 Kreuzer
MS-66: 1715 Saint Gall (Swiss Canton) Kreuzer
MS-67: 1859 Bavaria (German State) Kreuzer
Well, it's been a year, so I figured I'd resuscitate this thread. Many of my NGC coins went to PCGS in the Crossover Special, so I'll just report on PCGS, with a couple changes from a year ago.
PCGS:
MS-64: (978-1016) Anglo-Saxon Penny
MS-65: 1645 Augsburg (German State) Thaler
MS-66: 1715 Salzburg 2 Kreuzer
MS-67: 1743 Great Britain Maundy Penny
MS-68: 1816 Appenzell (Swiss Canton) 1/2 Batzen
My World Coin Type Set
8+ year old thread. I've gone further back, and now have images of a few ...
MS-65: (612-621) Visigoth (Spain) Tremisses
MS66: 1698 Wurzburg (Germany) 3 Kreuzer
MS-67: 1694 Salzburg (Austria) 1/2 Thaler
MS-68: 1816 Appenzell (Swiss Canton) 1/2 Batzen ... sorry, no image yet
My World Coin Type Set
I'm sure there are some pre B.C./C.E. Greek gold coins that would
grade rather high. If not by our host, than ATS.
If the container was a non porous material and the coins were buried in it in dry soil it is possible that even Roman coins can still be mint state.
1612 MS65
1690 NGC MS66 - sitting at PCGS right now hopefully will have a trueview soon if crosses cause my images are terrible it's way nicer in hand
Edit: like an hour after posting this I got my grades and it crossed, Trueview coming!
UKAV5916 from Zohar444 on Vimeo.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/300032209Untitled from Zohar444 on Vimeo.
Untitled from Zohar444 on Vimeo.
Again, always hard to follow @Zohar!
A lot of Salzburg coins - wonder why? Here is a MS64 from 1511.
My current "Box of 20"
Not mine, but impressive enough
Perhaps @Rexford knows about it?
Yes, that was the earliest coin graded MS69 by NGC, as far as I'm aware. Previously was mine and is no longer in that holder (downgraded to MS67). Was overgraded in my opinion and had a spot removed on the reverse.
There is a 1752 Brazilian 1000 Reis graded MS68+ by NGC, that is probably currently the oldest coin in this grade at either service. It's even more violently overgraded in my opinion, surfaces are dipped out and unattractive. Would not blink an eye if it were in an MS64 or MS65 holder.
There is a 1681 Kreuzer graded MS67 by PCGS, which I believe is the oldest PCGS-graded coin in this grade or higher. I currently own this and it's for sale to anyone interested. PCGS seems to be much harsher with giving out grades in MS67 or higher than NGC for foreign coins of significant age, which I appreciate.
There is a 1604 Thaler graded MS67 by NGC that I think is fairly graded and would cross to PCGS in the same grade. It's posted earlier in this thread too, by Zohar.
This may be the oldest coin graded MS67 by NGC (struck 1282-1285). Personally I do not think any hammered coins should receive grades above, say, MS66, and that grades like these should be taken with a grain of salt. Honestly, I don't think numerical grades should be given to them at all and they should be graded in the same way that NGC grades ancients (after all, they are struck the same way).
Since NGC ancients aren't given numerical MS grades, and PCGS doesn't grade ancients, the oldest coin in MS65 is probably this tremisses from 612-621 (also posted earlier in this thread). There are several of these tremisses in PCGS MS grades, but this is the only one is MS65.
https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/spain/612-621-tremisses-cayon-216-emerita/2390?sn=633406&h=pop
https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/spain/612-621-tremisses-cayon-220-ispalis/2390?sn=598588&h=pop
https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/spain/621-631-tremisses-cayon-266-ispali/2390?sn=802794&h=pop
There's also this thrymsa graded MS64 by PCGS, from 616-640, from the Tyrant Collection.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
You had to one up my 3K huh? Beautiful! Its yours bent as well? I can't wait to see the true view for mine
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Again - I wonder why these Salzburg coins are so common. A hoard?
Here’s one I doubt would grade so high but I was going to submit.
Oh and here’s a 14th century mint state coin I purchased from @PhilLynott:
My current "Box of 20"