HELP! Advice on cracking out from SGC to PSA? UPDATE - more pics!!

bobbyw8469 · May 20, 2011 9:15PM

Hello everyone. Let me explain a recent situation I had. I am currently trying to complete the 1933 Goudey Sport Kings set. This is a set I just want to complete. I want to buy the best available card at the best available price - doesn't have to be high grade. I have noticed in my quest that it is rather difficult to find nice, affordable cards in PSA for this set, no matter what the condition.

That being said, I recently bought a low grade SGC 1933 Goudey Sport Kings card. Walter Hagen #8 SGC 3. I have other SGC 33 S.K's in my collection, but since I have them on the registry, I would prefer to have them in PSA holders. Of all the 3's I own, the Walter Hagen was the best of the bunch. NO WAY was that a 3. That is one card that I thought SGC got it wrong. It looked WAYYY nicer than my other SGC 3's. So I cracked it out. PSA said the card was trimmed. OK fine. PSA saw something they didn't like. So then I sent the card back to SGC. Now THEY say the card is trimmed!!!! Let me insert this now - THIS IS NOT A SLAM AGAINST SGC! I CRACKED THE CARD OUT - I INCURRED THE RISK! My only displeasure is that I put alot of faith in SGC to catch trim jobs and what not - this wasn't a card I bought raw. Now I am starting to 2nd guess myself as to how many other trimmed cards are in low grade SGC holders. When I am cracking these things out, just getting into a PSA case with a number grade is all I want. Having an SGC card come back TRIMMED is the furthest from my mind!!

In conclusion, I just wanted some advice on what to look for when cracking out SGC cards for crossover to PSA. I have other low grade S.K.'s that I need for my registry. The Hagen was an expensive lesson to try and chase down a card for the set. I was hoping I could put pics of other Sport Kings I was thinking of cracking, and solicit advise on whether these cards were good or trimmed as well? Thank you in advance for your time and experience.

Smuggo · May 20, 2011 9:23PM

My guess is that you will find (many) trimmed cards in all companies holders if you do enough crack and resubmit.

Brick · May 20, 2011 10:13PM

Crap happens. I think SGC is equal to PSA when it comes to the quality of their product. I would not be afraid to crack out SGC cards, this is probably just one that fell through the cracks. If you have cold feet about continueing to crack out due to this experience you could simply send in cards for crossover unless you have no confidence in PSAs ability to grade fairly when they see another companies opinion.
BTW perhaps you could get some advice from the folks on the SGC board. Not much activity on that board but they have a few knowledgable people.

bobbyw8469 · May 20, 2011 10:46PM

Thanks for the input Brick. Me personally, I don't think PSA looks at cards subjectively went sent in for review. I have NEVER had a card crossover for review. Granted, I haven't subbed many crossovers as others have. But with my limited subs, and 0.000 batting average, I realized that maybe that wasn't in my best interest to go that route. I mentioned something about this over on the SGC board, but it didn't go over so well over there. I was tarred and feathered for "bashing" SGC. Sometimes I write quickly and without thinking, and that kind of impulse writing, doesn't translate too well in the "internet" world. I felt like I was in 5th grade all over again with all the childish words being thrown at me.

thedutymon · May 20, 2011 10:46PM

Morning,

IMHO, I don't think either of the other ones are trimmed, but then again I can't see where the Hagan is trimmed, and my opinion doesn't count, ONLY PSA's!!

Bobby could you keep me updated on this I have a vested interest. I just bought a Large lot of 1962 Topps Football 7's & 8's, commons and Stars in both PSA and SGC and I am going to be crossing over or cracking out all of the SGC, about $1000-$1500 for Re-sale. So keep me posted.

Thanks

Neil

earlycalguy · May 20, 2011 11:02PM

sounds like a post for the SGC lovers and PSA bashers over at NET54.

bobbyw8469 · May 20, 2011 11:09PM

<< sounds like a post for the SGC lovers and PSA bashers over at NET54. >>

Nope. Over on SGC, it turned into an episode of "Beavis and Butthead". I felt like I was back in 5th grade all over again! Based upon what transpired over there, I would just as soon leave that experience out over at Net 54, as I feel as though they are more sensible over there, and I don't wish to subject them to that kind of elementary nonsense. Right here on PSA will be where I leave this thread, as I respect most of the members here, and there seems to be a lot of wisdom here.

rbdjr1 · May 20, 2011 11:32PM

>>>>>> Funny how folks see things differently <<<<<<

I just sold a complete set of: 1914 CARRERAS SCIENCE OF BOXING 50 CARD SET all PSA graded.

The buyer is cracking-out all 50 PSA slabs and submitting them to SGC.

If we can have 3 different auto companies (Ford, GM, Chrysler) here in the USA,

We should be able to have at least 2 places to get our cards authenticated, graded and slabbed in a proper holder?

One would think

rd

P.S. Would these look better in the PSA or the SGC slab (as grades or crossing over were not the issue in this case). I can see someone making a case for these smaller cigarette cards not really secure in their PSA slabs, being lose in the holder, and less time consuming than putting these smaller cards a more secure holder (maybe it was simply more cost effective for PSA to "slab 'em" this "less secure" way?)...

bobbyw8469 · May 20, 2011 11:40PM

lol......oh the irony!! And when SGC says they are trimmed, who does he turn to? It's like playing 3 card monte, and when the smoke clears, you turn over all 3 cards to see that the red queen wasn't even there!

All I am missing is the ?Questionable Authenticity? label on the Hagen and I will have the trifecta!!! At least there is something to root for!

Treetop · May 21, 2011 2:23AM

This exact same scenario has happened to me twice. Once with a 67 Rose SGC 96 and a 68 Ryan SGC 92….crack and off to PSA, trimmed, back to SGC, trimmed….Lost a few pair of shorts on these deals…

pclpads · May 21, 2011 5:02AM

First, sorry this happened to you. Second, welcome to the club! If you do this long enough, YOU WILL BE A VICTIM OF TPGers!! I've been burned many times going both ways: graded PSA becomes SGC AUTH; graded SGC becomes PSA AUTH. If the grader had a blow out with the wife before going to work and he'll be looking at your card that day, you are f'ed! Cross-overs are another bag of worms. I truly believe there is a built-in, company directive / bias when a TPG reviews a card in another slab, no matter if it's in a BVG, SGC, GAI, PSA, PRO, KSA, CSA holder. I am certain the thinking is, "Well, we'll take care of that!" In short, based on extensive negative experience, my philosophy is now to leave the damn card in the holder it is now in, regardless of the company, or the grade. Trying bust-outs for re-slabbing, or trying cross-overs, is only for the foolhardy and the wealthy. No mas! Moral: If you want a particular card in a specific grade and in a specific holder, buy it that way. You'll be bucks ahead!

Mickey71 · May 21, 2011 5:15AM

Both companies are guessing when it comes to trimmed cards. Crossovers....don't get me started.---It's the biggest money maker in TPG. Receive card...collect fees and send back in original holder....Sounds good to me.

fiveniner · May 21, 2011 8:12AM

Both Top Notch Companies.

Frozencaribou · May 21, 2011 9:28AM

The question is this: Why have PSA holders devolved when it comes to protecting smaller cards. Look at those boxing cards. They are so loose in the holder that it wouldn't take much movement at all to ding a corner or two.

BGS has the best holders by a mile when it comes to protecting the card. Why can't PSA or SGC figure out a similar system that ensures no holder damage? Surely it is not that difficult.

bobbyw8469 · May 22, 2011 1:27AM

Yea. Everyone has valid points. Does it look like the Sarazan and Fator are trimmed?? I don't wish to have another fiasco like I did with the Hagen!

bobbyw8469 · May 23, 2011 9:31AM

I was hoping to get advice on these!! I really want these in PSA cases for my registry!! Do these look trimmed to you??

Bosox1976 · May 23, 2011 9:37AM

Bottom edge of Walthour would give me pause.

bobbyw8469 · May 23, 2011 9:40AM

My coworker said the same thing Mike!!! Maybe we can go work for PSA if it doesn't work out where we are now!

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 9:42AM

I don't like the Walthour. Same as Mike said.

NickM · May 23, 2011 10:18AM

The Walthour looks more like a diamond cut to me. I don't like the top right of the Jaffee.

Remember that a trim job is easier to tell in person than in a picture, and looking at the sides helps.

Nick

Redglobe · May 24, 2011 6:41AM

Hello,

Looking at the scan of the Hagen in the SGC slab the corners look to sharp to be graded a "3" especially on the right side.

Just scroll down (up)and look at the corners on Sarazen they are much softer.

Just my observation

Rob

packCollector · May 24, 2011 7:30AM

The Holman is trimmed which is why it's in an sgc authentic holder

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 7:33AM

<< The Holman is trimmed which is why it's in an sgc authentic holder >>

How do you know it is an SGC "A" holder?? I never showed the flips because I wanted an UNBIASED opinion!!! And the SGC flip doesn't mean SQUAT to me....I mean, the Hagen was in a '3' holder, and we all know how that turned out.

WinPitcher · May 24, 2011 9:30AM

Duncan knows.

jackstraw · May 24, 2011 9:34AM

<< Duncan knows. >>

^

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 9:46AM

Yes...I always liked Duncan. He was GREAT at Wake Forest!

jackstraw · May 24, 2011 9:58AM

Was he right?

mexpo75 · May 24, 2011 10:50AM

Duncan also has great donuts

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 11:09AM

<< Was he right? >>

I thought he was OK....he was a #1 draft pick for the Spurs.

tennesseebanker · May 24, 2011 11:21AM

Bobby, I think it would be best to just move along.

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 12:01PM

He got it right...he saw what auction I won it from......but the point is, what SGC says means a hill of beans. SGC also said that the Hagen was a '3'. TRIMMED. SGC also says the Walthour is a '3'. Who wants to bet that if I crack that one out that one doesn't come back trimmed as well? The irony here, is that the Holman that SGC says is trimmed would probably come back graded from PSA.

tennesseebanker · May 24, 2011 12:30PM

Bobby, I'm not sure what your agenda may be, however, it seems you have some kind of axe to grind with Sgc.
The majority of long-time collectors here know that submitting cards to any Third Party grading service is a crap shoot, especially when it comes to submitting trimmed cards. I, as well as many other collectors here I'm sure have submitted cards to both companies with different results than what the other company may have first graded the card. I don't like to question anyone's motives, but it seems that your Sgc bashing is getting old.
And whatever your motives may be it seems your credibility took a big hit when you were "called out" last year on Net 54 for apparently selling a card on E-bay as Nm/Mt that had come back as trimmed from Psa earlier.

Net 54 Link

fattymacs · May 24, 2011 12:38PM

"The empty cans make the most noise."

I wish I could remember who posted the above quote, but the more I read internet postings, the more I believe.

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 12:39PM

<< I, as well as many other collectors here I'm sure have submitted cards to both companies with different results than what the other company may have first graded the card >>

Getting a different grade is one thing. I understand that happens. But have you ever had a card go from graded to trimmed, to trimmed again?? Next time I send it in, the damn thing will probably get graded. The lack of consistency disturbs me.

I have explained myself til I am blue in the face about the Mays. For all I know that damn card in an SGC 8 holder now! That would be ironic!

Tennessee.....Did you even bother to read what Treetop wrote on page #1? I don't have an agenda, but you are TOTALLY missing the whole point. Im gonna let this drop....... I can't win for losing...I even have proof...scans and everything....oh well.

burke23 · May 24, 2011 2:15PM

Never take the first or second opinion. I've cracked a slabbed card and had it come back as trimmed or altered from 2 TPG's (including the original grader), and it ended up a psa 10. If it graded once, it will grade again.

CollectorAtWork · May 24, 2011 6:24PM

I've cracked and submitted tons of cards both ways. There is always risk in cracking out and re-submitting. You just have to determine if you can stomach the risk. In general, I have found that cracking and re-submitting SGC 40/3 to SGC 50/4 will generally cross at the same grade to PSA. Again, you always have to look at the card in the holder, and determine if it is strong for the grade or weak. If it's weak, it will have less chance. SGC is often easier on creases that grade out to 2 where PSA will give a 1. Same thing for cards with tape residue on the front where SGC will give a slightly higher grade. Horribly mangled cards SGC will usually still give a 1 (Poor) where PSA will drop to Authentic. SGC is usually more lenient on hand cut prewar strip cards while it's tough for PSA to give these a number a grade. SGC is usually stricter on trim jobs. At least twice I have crossed cards that were Authentic SGC to numbered PSA slabs. However, I also had a 69 Topps Alcindor that came back Trim from PSA, and SGC slabbed it as 7.5, so you never know. In a recent submission, I'm actually taking my biggest risk by cracking and and re-submitting a bunch of 33 Goudey SGC 6's and hoping they get the same grade at PSA. The thing is PSA is usually tougher at this level, so I think screwed up by doing this.

Brick · May 24, 2011 10:05PM

FWIW. I cracked a 55 Topps PSA 5 . Looked very nice for the grade. Came back altered stock. Later sent it in again. Came back PSA 5.

WinPitcher · May 24, 2011 10:16PM

<< .but the point is, what SGC says means a hill of beans. >>

Then why buy SGC graded cards if you feel that way?

bobbyw8469 · May 24, 2011 11:06PM

<< Then why buy SGC graded cards if you feel that way? >>

I see your point and know what you are going to say. I buy SGC cards because I can get them at an affordable price compared to their PSA counterparts.

bigreddog · May 28, 2011 6:25PM

Crack them all out and collect them raw, the way it was meant to be, and you'll never have to worry about some part time help grading cards.

bobbyw8469 · June 22, 2011 2:41AM

Had a request to bump this thread.

WinPitcher · June 22, 2011 7:35AM

lol an agent provocateur?

bobbyw8469 · June 22, 2011 8:27AM

Isn't that a Foreigner album?

HELP! Advice on cracking out from SGC to PSA? UPDATE - more pics!!

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