Franklin Mint Proofs On Fire, or Belize Belies Belief!

7Jaguars · March 13, 2011 9:26AM

Wow, just closed on ebay was the copper-nickel 1984 Belize proof set at 310.00 (vs. Krause 95 dollars). Some of these Franklin Mint NCLT sets have been going crazy lately

coinkat · March 13, 2011 10:44AM

Really?

Other examples?

I have had this thought that many have been melted- not just Belize but others too

MadMuffin · March 13, 2011 8:29PM

I suppose that people are finally starting to realize just how rare some of these coins are, especially those in the 1980-1985 range.

I collect these Franklin Mint issues myself. I have bought rare coins with mintages down to around 200 pcs for little more than catalog price but that seems to be over now. Prices are definately on the rise.

Just imagine what an american quarter with a mintage of 200 pcs would cost

Marcel

7Jaguars · March 13, 2011 10:28PM

Yes, I agree with the dates but it is also country specific. Trinidad proof sets of, say, 1983 & 1984 can go for well over 300 also.

The 1983 & 1984 Belize Unc. 100 Dollar gold have gone by recall for 1k and even above on one occasion; there were some 80 bids for the 1983 Belize set that went for 150 or so (also with the 37.00 issue price).

The sets on sale were with NO silver and that makes this even more interesting...

GritsMan · March 14, 2011 6:34AM

These deserve to get some attention, but it looks like the window of opportunity is closing...

spoon · March 14, 2011 9:30AM

Do these prices hold up for individual coins from the sets, say in slabs, or only for the complete set + COA? (which is what I've been seeing, only crazy money with full original packaging)

I'm also curious how strong the collector base is for these. Is this being driven by a shallow pool of collectors with deep pockets who were ten years ago hoarding Beanie Babies? Or maybe someone neurotic enough to think he can buy up all 200 sets? - I realize there are normal collectors, casual or focused, but this price spike seems like something else.

7Jaguars · March 14, 2011 9:42AM

Well, the same might be said in a slightly different way for obscure Victorian Bunhead pennies where thousands upon thousands of pounds are spent for obscure varietals by only two or three collectors.

But I have seen big prices in different series by country with what appear to be different buyers. This trend IMO has been going on for about five years and is pretty quiet. I think the market seems to be for sets with papers but some of the coins (ie large denominations or gold) sell on their own for fairly large numbers as well.

cladking · March 15, 2011 1:16AM

I think the real opportunity will prove to be in the circulating coinage. In many cases
they didn't even make mint sets and people were way too smart to fool around with
setting aside FM junk even if it was low mintage. Even the '75 Belize coinage for in-
stance had a mint set mintage of around 1000 and a low circulating number. Attri-
tion on mint sets is far higher than on proof sets since they have had no market and
are easy to cut up and throw in the junk box or in a collection. The mint set coins are
a totally different design than the coins made for circulation. But it's not the fact
that so few BU coins survive that might push the price sharply higher but that the de-
mand for circulating coinage tends to be multiples of the demand for the proofs. You
can still pick up the BU singles (if you find one) for close to face value while proof sin-
gles which you just might find will cost at least a couple dollars.

I've always just been floored by FM quality. Almost every single thing they did was just
simply superb. Oh sure, the boxes for the Trinidad and Tobago proof sets decompose
but the coins are still just as perfect and well designed as ever. Designs tend to be awe-
some and most packaging is stable. There has been a high attrition in most of their pro-
duct lines but this wasn't really necessary for higher prices with most coins because mint-
ages were pretty low to start with. All that was necessary was for collectors to wake up
and see that these are beautiful coins and that nothing lasts forever.

Collectors who are still around in thirty years are going to be in for a lot of surprises. Many
very desirable coins were whittled away over the last couple generations because people
didn't care. Gold coins with mintages under 2000 will have suffered up to 60% attrition
because no one cared. Many moderns have simply staggering attrition and despite multi-
million mintages there will be very few nice collectible examples which survive.

Belize has been moving up on my list of most appreciated countries in recent weeks.

7Jaguars · March 15, 2011 1:55AM

I too think that the relative value of these sets and countries are underappreciated. The mint sets were looked at as junk for many years by dealers who did not want to touch them; the silver sets (mostly proofs but a few of some of the countries 1971-1973 uncs as well of higher denominations) sold out for silver. Many were cut out of sets as the packaging was too bulky as well.

There are numerous surprises that can potentially show up in looking for these, singles and sets, including varied trial strikes in different finishes with some not listed in Krause and also to note that the Franklin Mint did not keep as best as I can tell scrupulous records of mintages in the 1982-85 period. Unknown mintages lead the collector to have to find out for himself/herself which are scarce and which are not; I have found that some are nearly impossible to locate...

ormandh · March 15, 2011 2:17AM

<< <i>I too think that the relative value of these sets and countries are underappreciated. The mint sets were looked at as junk for many years by dealers who did not want to touch them; the silver sets (mostly proofs but a few of some of the countries 1971-1973 uncs as well of higher denominations) sold out for silver. Many were cut out of sets as the packaging was too bulky as well.

There are numerous surprises that can potentially show up in looking for these, singles and sets, including varied trial strikes in different finishes with some not listed in Krause and also to note that the Franklin Mint did not keep as best as I can tell scrupulous records of mintages in the 1982-85 period. Unknown mintages lead the collector to have to find out for himself/herself which are scarce and which are not; I have found that some are nearly impossible to locate... >>

I disagree. There are books from the mint that tell of any given mintages, but I only have certain years of publication that give the exact figures. The info is most definitely out there, but for reasons, the info is not public knowledge. I have very thick guides from The Franklin Mint from the 70's that lets you know exactly what the mintage is for any given series. The problem lies when you try to get these mintage from the internet. I have a few of the guides from the early 70's that explain bunches more than you can find online. -Dan

pmac · March 15, 2011 3:01AM

I nominate this title as the best alliteration of the year.

olmanjon · March 15, 2011 3:05AM

I was just getting into the foreign proof sets in the early 70's and have the 1973 Trinidad and Tobago set with papers and box. Is this worth about the same as the 1983 or not?
Olmanjon

7Jaguars · March 15, 2011 3:40AM

Not, but you do have bullion there. The 1973 a common date but should be worth a safe 65 or so dollars. The 1983 about 300 or so now I would imagine.

The figures in fact are not known for many of the issues in the time period described (1982-1985), and know this as I have collected these - or at least some of them - since issue time.

There was a guide (Krause?) to these, and there are figures well known 1973-1980 as well as SOME of the later issues but def. not all. Some such as the 1982 Belize mule $10 are listed as "3" but no real confirmation. Krause has pretty good mintage records. I believe, but can not prove that a few of the later mintages of 1984 & 1985 list authorized mintage (versus actual number minted).

PM me if you would like further details. BTW, I am a collector NOT a seller or dealer.

canadacolornut · March 15, 2011 7:09PM

Dumb question but asking anyway...

The Franklin Mint Coins of All Nations sets. Are these coins that were struck by The Franklin Mint or uncirculated coins that were minted in the original country?

Also; will PCGS holder them?

Thanks

7Jaguars · March 15, 2011 11:42PM

The latter. These are cobbled together sets put together by the Franklin Mint that best I can tell was not striking any coins by the time of the sets you speak.

cladking · March 16, 2011 7:51AM

<< <i>The latter. These are cobbled together sets put together by the Franklin Mint that best I can tell was not striking any coins by the time of the sets you speak. >>

These are cobbled together but it should be noted that somehow or other FM got ahold
of very high quality coins for these mint sets. Indeed some countries like Russia appear
to have been assembled from regular numismatic mint sets; 1978 if memory serves. Other
countries like Switzerland appear to be just high quality regular issue coins but almost a-
cross the board these "Coins of all nations sets" appear to be good or superb quality.

I believe they were all assembled around 1982 but in some cases they used somewhat
older coins. There are a lot of highly desirable coins in these sets but relatively few that
are actually scarce in unc. But there is some condition rarity in the sets.

7Jaguars · January 30, 2017 7:14AM

Update: The recent StacksBowers sale at NYINC had some Richard Stuart later date Panama gold coins on sale, many from the Franklin Mint. Several of the high denomination/gold content 500 Balboas in scarcer matte unc. condition ( a few with mintage of TEN) went for up to 7k USD. Many others went for big money; the latter may be?? a record for a Franklin Mint struck coin.

Will note that the UNCIRCULATED 1982 FM (Franklin Mint) Panama 100 Balboas went for 3,600 plus commission! This for a coin with about 1/8th oz of gold only.

Also note that one of the main artist engravers for FM, a Mr. Everhart has had a senior position at the US Mint and has been responsible for a number of the recent US Commem designs.

And as per CladKing above, the "cobbled" FM series of Nations releases have provided some interesting bits. I have accumulated about 15-20 of those sheets for Jamaica and note that the included coins vary quite a bit in quality, date and origin. Some are Royal Mint products and a minority are Franklin Mint struck with dates from mid-70s through 1987 and not inclusive of all the dates and denominations. Some of the FM coins are to the best of my knowledge not available elsewhere and none released for circulation.

Franklin Mint Proofs On Fire, or Belize Belies Belief!

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