is This real or fake?

diamondman · March 1, 2011 3:15AM

I am selling this on ebay and have had the coin nearly 30 years. had some one email me saying fake made in China?
size & weight all check out and feels and rings like silver.
just thought I might be wrong (wouldn't be the first time being wrong) or the person emailing me is mistaken but just figured I would check here as I don't want to sell a fake , and I also don't want to have someone screwing with one of my auctions thinking they are saving the world either. Thanks in advance.
Link to auction

JamesMurray · March 1, 2011 3:33AM

I would look at his ebay history and decide if i thought he might know what he is talking about initially. I think the day is gone when we are able to say that looks fine by pictures alone , ive seen fakes that have fooled PCGS experts and recently too.
One thing about the coin leaps out at me , directly below the 1 to the left of the shield there is a "worn" area or it appears to be , ive seen that same scuff mark on Chinese fakes where it used to say copy and has been removed.Ill post a picture of a few examples later today.

lordmarcovan · March 1, 2011 4:25AM

I haven't got any idea. Looks fine to me, but then again, with the growing skill of Chinese counterfeiters and their sometimes-offbeat choice of what to counterfeit, who knows?

I'd ask somebody who made such an allegation for the reason WHY they thought it was a Chinese fake.

In this case, it doesn't seem that evident to me. Like I said, it looks fine to me, and if it is a fake it certainly would've fooled me. But I've never had a coin of this type.

CIVITAS · March 1, 2011 4:36AM

I don't see anything in the picture that looks suspicious. I'd buy the coin as genuine based on the photo.

1jester · March 1, 2011 5:27AM

Looks good to me too. You might add in the auction that you've had it in your collection for 30 years. Good luck.

WillieBoyd2 · March 1, 2011 7:06AM

The coin looks OK to me.

Somebody might be playing with the seller.

diamondman · March 1, 2011 7:20AM

<< <i>I haven't got any idea. Looks fine to me, but then again, with the growing skill of Chinese counterfeiters and their sometimes-offbeat choice of what to counterfeit, who knows?

I'd ask somebody who made such an allegation for the reason WHY they thought it was a Chinese fake.

In this case, it doesn't seem that evident to me. Like I said, it looks fine to me, and if it is a fake it certainly would've fooled me. But I've never had a coin of this type. >>

Hello, yes that is the 1st thing I did was ask for tell tale signs and why he thought it was a fake , but he has not responded to my question.
One good thing, still 5 days left to do a little research and pull the auction if it turns out to be fake.

One bad thing , if this is a fake, it is a really really good one.especially since I have had it 30 years and I am sure the counterfeiters have gotten better since then.

Appreciate all the opinions and help. Thanks Mike

JamesMurray · March 1, 2011 7:34AM

This isnt the coin i had in mind to post but it gives an idea. Where it says copy is often worn down quite nicely and you can see what is left is a rather nice nickel. With a bit of fake toning it would be difficult to see but still visable always at the right angle under the right light.Ill try to find those other coins but im being kept busy and i havnt found them as yet , i keep them far far away from real coins , they really are that good.This one at least illustrates what i mean.

diamondman · March 1, 2011 8:25AM

<< <i>I would look at his ebay history and decide if i thought he might know what he is talking about initially. I think the day is gone when we are able to say that looks fine by pictures alone , ive seen fakes that have fooled PCGS experts and recently too.
One thing about the coin leaps out at me , directly below the 1 to the left of the shield there is a "worn" area or it appears to be , ive seen that same scuff mark on Chinese fakes where it used to say copy and has been removed.Ill post a picture of a few examples later today. >>

I think the worn area your speaking of is just a product of my crappy photography & the lighting, I am looking forward to seeing your examples, that will hopefully help me to decide to leave the auction run or pull it, if it was a real expensive coin, I would have already pulled the auction because I would never knowingly sell a fake coin.

as far as his ebay history (humlebohistory) , not much a grand total of 116 feedback received since 2006, and it seems like he buys a lot of fakes, just received another email telling me I am now being discussed on a coin forum in Norway, I just don't need this headache over a 25-50 dollar coin. Thanks Mike

coinkat · March 1, 2011 9:13AM

looks good to me

CIVITAS · March 1, 2011 11:44AM

Sounds like it's just another one of the many raving lunatics on eBay. That's one of the many reasons I no longer sell there.

Just block him, shrug it off and move on.

If you're really worried about it, just PM me a fair price, and I'd buy it as authentic without hesitation. I bet as soon as you end your auction you'd get a message from that bidiot asking how much you want for your "fake."

JamesMurray · March 1, 2011 1:49PM

Hi Mike , apologies its taken til now .. ive found them and had quite a tricky job catching it in the light to illustrate what i mean. Firstly i should have said i have no way of knowing if its fake or not , but i looked on it as ok what is there about it that might have someone think it.You'll know best having it in hand,i can see how it could be lighting.

diamondman · March 2, 2011 4:47AM

Hello James Murray, No apologies necessary, I want to Thank you for your time & trouble, taking good pictures of coins is a skill & art that I have not yet mastered. Wow that shield nickel looks good.

I want to thank everyone and appreciate all opinions, if there is one thing that I have learned in 40+ years of collecting, you are never to young or old to learn something new. back in the late 60's early 70's, the local coin shop that I visited I would buy every U.S.A counterfeit/altered coin that was affordable, mostly Lincoln pennies 44-d=14-d ect ect to educate myself , since I was collecting pennies at that time. the best memories I have is on Saturday afternoons my father & me would go through a 50.00 bank bag of lincolns, chasing the elusive 09-s VDB, never found one LOL, but did find a 14-D.

switched to the dark side LOL around 1975 since foreign coins were prettier and there was much more to choose from.

After weighing the 1847 Norway 12 skilling on an old set of triple beams 2.9 grams and putting the coin under a 10X & 20X loupe, the only thing I didn't do was file a notch in the coin and drop nitric acid on it. I believe it to be authentic & genuine, and will allow the auction to run it's course. I could be wrong wouldn't be the first time, bought an 1856 flying eagle penny 500.00 (raw) 30 years ago fake as a three dollar bill, thought that was real too (ouch). it is really scary how much better the counterfeiters have become in the last 40 years.

Will try to post a few better pics of the 1847.

JamesMurray · March 2, 2011 6:18AM

No problem Diamondman , i was in a fluster trying to find those as i hadnt looked at them in years now. Ive tried to intimate to collectors just how good these fakes are but often it fell on deaf ears so i put them away.
You are absolutely correct that education is key and for a nickel collector it is vital to have experienced the feel of these almost perfect fakes.Bear in mind i selected one that shows that wear scar from where copy was , others have no such scar and i assume were struck without the copy.
Weight and composition is correct , the strike is beautiful , easy to see why i keep them far away from my collection.It's not just nickels , large cents and halfcents are just as good if not better.Darkside coins do not escape the counterfeiters , browse the replica section of ebay.

diamondman · March 2, 2011 6:52AM

The 1st pic is a scan the rest are digital photos.

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diamondman · March 2, 2011 6:55AM

one was deleted for some reason.

JamesMurray · March 2, 2011 7:34AM

Did the guy ever point out what it was that was doubtful about the coin ? It's one thing to suggest a coin is suspicious and all too often quite another to show what one means.In the ebay pic it is the lighting causing the "scar" , it isnt nearly what it appears on these other pics , it's there but looks natural and more a case of other areas toned highlighting either side of the shield.It would be cool to link the dude here so he can explain his thoughts and perhaps educate us.

CaptHenway · March 2, 2011 12:00PM

<< <i>Sounds like it's just another one of the many raving lunatics on eBay. That's one of the many reasons I no longer sell there.

Just block him, shrug it off and move on.

If you're really worried about it, just PM me a fair price, and I'd buy it as authentic without hesitation. I bet as soon as you end your auction you'd get a message from that bidiot asking how much you want for your "fake." >>

diamondman · March 2, 2011 12:21PM

<< <i>Did the guy ever point out what it was that was doubtful about the coin ? It's one thing to suggest a coin is suspicious and all too often quite another to show what one means.In the ebay pic it is the lighting causing the "scar" , it isnt nearly what it appears on these other pics , it's there but looks natural and more a case of other areas toned highlighting either side of the shield.It would be cool to link the dude here so he can explain his thoughts and perhaps educate us. >>

that is what is funny, he has emailed 4 times always saying he will tell me what is wrong with the coin in his next email. the only thing he hinted was the weight, but I didn't even list the weight in the auction, so I emailed him it weighed 2.9 grams and he emailed back saying it should only weigh 2.89 grams doh and the fakes weigh 2.6.

yes,it would be common courtesy, to at least tell me what details about the coin that makes him suspicious. what scares me is 2 of 3 bidders are from Norway (hopefully not his buddies), because I have already blocked him from bidding, and like "Civitas" said I would bet if I ended the auction the next email would be how much for your fake.

here are 2 of my fakes from my childhood: 31-s penny which I think was a 37-s and a 1935 quarter (made of lead?).

JamesMurray · March 2, 2011 1:36PM

It sounds safe as houses with 2 other Norwegians bidding , it's comical to think somewhere in Norway all these guys are sitting around in fur coats squabbling over whats what on ebay..lol..kinda reminds me of somewhere.

The lincoln fake you have looks more likely to fool people than the quarter might , interesting items though.Thanks for posting those.

sinin1 · March 3, 2011 8:04PM

your silver 12 Skilling looks good to me

I like to look at the rim and near the edge for consistent wear to coin (most counterfeits of circulated coins have rim/edges that look UNC)

you could do the old drop test, and see if it sounds like a silver ring (tells if die struck and if silver)

I would let it run

is This real or fake?

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