Who's the GB expert???

MadMarty · February 14, 2011 12:44AM

I bought 4 Maundy sets 2-1906, 1-1907 and a 1908. No cases, but nice unc toned sets. What is the going rate for these little boogers? Just want to see if I got a good deal or not...

canadacolornut · February 14, 2011 12:53AM

About a buck and half each but I'll give you $20 for the lot

I'm thinking $175-$250 based on what I've seen on Ebay and auction sites for uncertified Edward VII sets......

7Jaguars · February 14, 2011 1:03AM

OK, let me try this again on this da--ed computer. Assuming average or above so sets, and realizing these aren't the "hotting up" Victoria Young Head sets that seem to be on liftoff in the homemarket, I would estimate conservatively 500-600 USD which does seem like a lot.

Gazza · February 14, 2011 3:15AM

Eddy VII are of the more common maundy. About $250 a set.

SYRACUSIAN · February 14, 2011 3:37AM

I'm no expert in anything, but I've seen my share of Edward VII sets. Some of them come with gorgeous toning, and if graded by our hosts they can go upto 66-67 a coin. Then, you're in a different league, otherwise, I'd say even lower than Gazza's estimate.

7Jaguars · February 14, 2011 3:59AM

Ditto on that. Gazza is quite liberal & wonder his prices - gazza are you buying?LOL.....I got some for sale...I would tend to stick to my suggested estimate...

pmac · February 14, 2011 4:32AM

I won a lot that had an 1896 Victoria Maundy set w/o the penny, beautiful steel blue toning. The set came with the presentation box. I'd like to find a matching penny (I know, wrong forum). Is the set worth much more if it is graded by our host? Does the set have a premium with the presentation box? The lot also contained a 4 pence (groat) from a 1772 George III set. Should this be graded for best results also? This one might be interesting to keep in that George III was mentioned in our Declaration of Independence.

MadMarty · February 14, 2011 4:44AM

I'm sent them off ATS to be holdered in multi-holders...

pmac · February 14, 2011 4:46AM

With your avitar, MadMarty, you must have some GB expertise.

SYRACUSIAN · February 14, 2011 5:48AM

Original presentation boxes are exceedingly rare. There are a lot of modern copies to house Maundy sets, often in red leatherette, worth 5 pounds, which is a good solution for an average set. Grading Maundies is worth only if the coins are top gems with monster toning IMO, otherwise you almost double its purchase price with the extra cost.

It's not the wrong forum to ask for an odd 1d Maundy 1896, actually you might be surprised.

As for the 1772 4d ,your guess is as good as mine. If you could post an image, it would help.

PS: Marty slabs anything ATS. Wait till he gets the results :58,61,63,64.

MadMarty · February 14, 2011 6:04AM

Oh Dimitri, that hurts!!!! These do have some very nice toning!! Also picked up a monster reverse toned 1919 6P.

coinkat · February 14, 2011 10:41AM

I like the Maundy sets in the holder you described Marty-

7Jaguars · February 14, 2011 2:38PM

To my knowledge these were distributed in leather bags and that cases with or without date were from secondary marketers such as Spink, etc.

Gazza · February 14, 2011 6:20PM

Yes the dated cases were after market. Up until Geogre V decided to restart handing out the coins personally you could go to a bank and order a set, that's why Ed VII are more common. I assume you could also order the case at the same time, hence the variety of shapes and colours. I have the complete EdVII run, I'm just struggling through the GV, GVI and EIIs. If anyone has any sets or single they would like to get rid off I've still a few gaps to fill.
Gazza

7Jaguars · February 14, 2011 9:46PM

The last year (xpt a couple of proof sets like 1937 & 2000 & 2002 gold) that the public could get them by my recall was 1908, making 1909 and 1910 quite scarce to their earlier E7 brethren.

JamesMurray · February 15, 2011 4:00AM

Most "maundy" coins ive seen on line are not maundy coins at all , just coins pulled from circulation of that time.Anyone can put together a set for next to little and call it maundy.I'm not detracting from these , it's just a long held observation.

pmac · February 15, 2011 4:24AM

<< Most "maundy" coins ive seen on line are not maundy coins at all , just coins pulled from circulation of that time.Anyone can put together a set for next to little and call it maundy.I'm not detracting from these , it's just a long held observation. >>

Were the silver 1d coins made for circulation?

SYRACUSIAN · February 15, 2011 5:15AM

<< 

<< Most "maundy" coins ive seen on line are not maundy coins at all , just coins pulled from circulation of that time.Anyone can put together a set for next to little and call it maundy.I'm not detracting from these , it's just a long held observation. >>

Were the silver 1d coins made for circulation? >>

To my knowledge no. No 1d silver or 2d silver.

For the 3d and 4d, we need the real experts' opinion, wybrit and Mac.

It is my understanding that a currency 3d is much more difficult to obtain in super PL grades than a Maundy 3d, except perhaps for the years 1887,1893 ,1902 and 1911.
Point in case, a currency 1899 (or was it 1896) that Mac had, and I owned for a short period, an NGC MS66, incorrectly labelled as Maundy. Bruce Lorich was convinced that it wasn't, but people paid the much lower value of a Maundy 3d to purchase it.

olmanjon · February 15, 2011 5:37AM

Hi all-I am still looking for the four pence in my 1897 maundy set. Anyone has one please pm me.
Olmanjon

7Jaguars · February 15, 2011 5:49AM

The Maundy 1ds are unique to the Maundy issue and none made for currency usage. The 2ds were made of silver and same size, etc. for Colonial usage (see esp 1838 and 1848 dates).
The 4ds are also unique to the Maundy issue as currency groats of William 4 and Victoria are of different design with a Britannia rev. rather than the simple numeral "4".

This brings up the subject of the Victorian 3ds, although the same designs for Maundy and currency were used through 1928. Victoria Maundy 3ds are generally struck to a PL standard but some have satin finish as well, and this is well documented. The satin finish examples look very similar to the currency and there may even be some overlap.

The major difference for those who care is that the Maundy usually have much sharper detail without mushy edges & the reverse is the best place to see this. Unfortunately, it appears that obverse dies may have been used for multiple years and sometimes hair details are rather poor on them. There are numerous lettering errors and diebreaks on a number of these, but particularly in the years up through the mid-1850s.

Many 3ds, even some certified by the major services such as "P" or ATS are not currency but are in fact Maundy; these are problematic when it comes to such dates as 1840-1845, the questionably existing 1847, 1848, 1852 years.

So overall, a bit confusing but if readers care, I am more than glad to answer questions about these 3ds.

RobP · February 15, 2011 6:13AM

Maundy sets and circulation pieces always cause a bit of grief. Maundy money is a generic term applied to the early small change and the later years where full sets of 1d, 2d, 3d & 4d silver coins were and still are produced. These have been struck since 1822 in full sets, but prior to that the individual denominations appear to have been made on an as required basis, though 1817, 1818 & 1820 saw similar issues to those adopted in 1822. The last date of issue before the recoinage of 1816 was 1800. The frequency with which this date is encountered suggests that they were produced not only in this year, but also in subsequent years using the same dies.

As the ceremony pre-dates 1822 (or 1817) it is reasonable to assume that before this date the money was given from accumulated small change rather than made to order sets. The early coins were therefore circulating currency, though there is evidence that they were produced in part for the ceremony. Elizabeth I issued an order for 10lbs of pennies 'to be kept by the warden for our use' on 2nd April 1574. The penny was omitted from the indenture at this time and it is assumed that these specially ordered coins were required for the Maundy ceremony as there was insufficient small change available to the royal almoner. Pennies with the acorn mark are decidedly rare, though later marks are easily found because the mint was subsequently given the authority to produce them. The four denominations were produced intermittently for the next 250 years. Noteworthy is the 1702 dated issue of William III. As he died on 8th March 1701 old style, the decision had clearly been taken to produce coins in advance and in all probability for the Maundy ceremony.

Pre-sets, 1765 is the key year when only the 4d, 3d & 2d were produced, though the indications are looking at my own 1766 penny and others' that the die is an overcut 1765 die. 1766 is readily available.

A currency silver 2d of the same design as the Maundy money was produced in 1838 & 1848, but the former is much more common than the latter.

The threepences from Victoria until the redesign in 1927 were a regular circulation coin and frequently find their way into Maundy sets in place of the original item. Caveat emptor.

Edited to correct faulty info. mea culpa.

MacCrimmon · February 15, 2011 8:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< Most "maundy" coins ive seen on line are not maundy coins at all , just coins pulled from circulation of that time.Anyone can put together a set for next to little and call it maundy.I'm not detracting from these , it's just a long held observation. >>

Were the silver 1d coins made for circulation? >>

To my knowledge no. No 1d silver or 2d silver.

For the 3d and 4d, we need the real experts' opinion, wybrit and Mac.

It is my understanding that a currency 3d is much more difficult to obtain in super PL grades than a Maundy 3d, except perhaps for the years 1887,1893 ,1902 and 1911.
Point in case, a currency 1899 (or was it 1896) that Mac had, and I owned for a short period, an NGC MS66, incorrectly labelled as Maundy. Bruce Lorich was convinced that it wasn't, but people paid the much lower value of a Maundy 3d to purchase it. >>

You're too kind, D, but I'm not near the expert of Wybrit, RobP, or 7Jags.

That 3d. was dated 1898 (Auction #3010, lot 22798) and it was not a Maundy strike.........so much for the simpleton's expertise ATS.

What would be a major benefit to GB collectors would be a detailed treatise covering absolute known Maundy sets which are imaged ala TrueView's 'pizza sized JPGs' detailing particular die and/or strike characteristics of each.

Of course, completely imaged (detailed) date runs of all denominations and die marriages of all Victoria coinage would be very nice also......gem uncirculated examples, of course.

MacCrimmon · February 15, 2011 8:51AM

Another thing re; the Maundy cases. I once had a 'double set', meaning two different years within, so these were often made to order by various jewelers.

This particular case contained 1901 and 1905, and the years and name of a Scottish town gilt on the case cover (can't recall the town). It was possibly done to house both a husband and wife's Maundy coins, and then 'bequeathed' to the several children as keepsakes. Otherwise, I have no clue why someone would have these two dates assembled into a custom holder.

Gazza · February 15, 2011 6:49PM

Also don't for get that most years issues where a mixture of sets and part sets. A true set would really be the total coins given to an individual for any give year.
Gary

JamesMurray · February 16, 2011 4:19AM

Thanks for all the great info , the silver 1d's and 2d's were actually circulated during the Geo l , ll , and lll reigns , i'm sure they were earlier than this too as i have a few. My favorite has to be the silver 1 1/2d .

spoon · February 16, 2011 4:53AM

Anyone remember that complete maundy set that was for sale a few years ago? 1830-something I think?

Here's the old thread.. but it looks like we were too busy drooling to mention any details

And unfortunately the seller, CRO, doesn't seem to have it archived on their website.

Edit - Another thread with a better pic -

MacCrimmon · February 16, 2011 8:49AM

Here's the Heritage auction link for that 1833 set.

MadMarty · February 17, 2011 12:05AM

WOW!!! That is SWEET!!!!

JamesMurray · February 17, 2011 3:50AM

Absolutely stunning Maundy set , thank you for posting it Spoon

SYRACUSIAN · February 18, 2011 12:35AM

Is it me, or the price of that fantastic 1833 set looks like a bargain now? Considering the quality and beautiful toning of the coins too.

Who's the GB expert???

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