Roberto Clemente Rookie Opinions Requested
MBMiller25
Posts: 6,056 ✭✭
In advance of this thread, I will say that I put a call into Joe Orlando to discuss this so I am not blind siding him with this when I/he get's to the National next month. I refuse to ship such a high dollar card through the mail, so the National is the only place where I would have the chance to escalate something like to Joe O. I bought a Clemente PSA 7 that Steve Hart had graded a few months ago. At that time, Steve told me he thought the card was not graded fairly and that I should discuss with PSA. In the meantime, I have somewhat been keeping an eye on some of the PSA 8 Clemente's that have come up for sale, to see what they looked like and to see if I had any arguement for my PSA 7 being undergraded. I know I am very biased, so I am asking for some help. Based on the scans below, is this worth arguing for? or are these three examples that I have posted below nicer cards that my PSA 7. I know scans arent the best way to go about this, but I am really just looking for some unbiased opinions, to reaffirm what I think I am seeing and to justify my belief that this should be escalated. Thanks in advance.
The PSA 7 that I own:
3 PSA 8 examples that I pulled from EBAY over the last couple weeks:
--EXAMPLE 1
--EXAMPLE 2
--EXAMPLE 3
Edit to add: Spelling
The PSA 7 that I own:
3 PSA 8 examples that I pulled from EBAY over the last couple weeks:
--EXAMPLE 1--EXAMPLE 2--EXAMPLE 3 Edit to add: Spelling
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Comments
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>If a card is as nicely centered as that one and gets 7'ed, then I'd be looking at other aspects of the card, such as the corners, surface, edges, and back. It's tough to tell any detail other than centering from your scan. >>
The back is centered perfectly, edges are great and corners are all MINT. There is not one touched corner on this card. The is off ever so slightly from Right to Left and there is some very mild surface/print dots on the black Pirates helmet are evident on the scan. Look just right of the "P" Logo! I say this, as there are clearly flaws on these PSA 8 as well: Tilt, corners, centering, depending on the card. I wouldnt think the print on the helmet on my card would detract it down to a 7. Please keep these opinions coming, as if the overwhelming response is that I shouldnt discuss with Joe O, I am not going to waste his time.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Are those print dots on the green surface to the left of his face? >>
No, The print dots are only on the helmet. My scanner sucks, so I can't get really good contrast on it.
<< <i>It looks like the cut swings into the card a little bit. It could also be the holder distorting the card as well. Since you ahve the card in-hand, you can tell us for certain what's going on there. >>
Its the holder, I have the card right next to me, there is nothing on the edges of the card.
I am by no means an expert,but, looking at all the scans your card looks to be centered the best..the first example is pretty good as well.
secondly your card look to have more of a vibrant color to it....with example 3 being right there also
Third,your card doesn't have the tilt as #1 and #3 do
#2 and #3 look to be off center left to right
#1 is nicely centered,but the green background is not as vibrant as yours...could yours be more glossier? where as #3 has that green vibrant background...but a tilt and slightly off center as I mentioned.
Overall, of the 3 examples you have shown I like # 1 of the lot.
With that said I see no reason why yours it not graded the same or higher by those examples shown.
Truly a superb card of my favorite (and best right fielder) of all time.
Rob
A realy beauty...from the scan it looks nicer than the other two. Seems like a "lock" 7.5 with a good shot at an 8.
Jeff
It looks like a beautiful card. Just an oipinion; look over the card extremely carefully before you bring it to Joe. If you truly feel that it deserves a higher grade then go to the National talk to Joe and pay for a one day review sub. Judging by the scan I wouldn't settle for anything less then an 8 and if it comes back a 7/7.5 kindly discuss it with Joe and ask him to explain the grade. Just an opinion.
Jason
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
While your at it with Joe and Clemente rookie grading discussions how about showing him mine also...yours looks like an 8 and mine looks like a 7.
Jeff
Without getting into details of the card comparisons, I would say that you have a valid reason to question your grade. I think after Joe sees your card he would be more than happy to discuss it with you. It's not like you are bringing in a card that was lucky to get a "7"!
GOOD LUCK!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Its really tough to see a flaw that could have knocked it down. Believe me I have had 1000's of cards that I thought were 8's or 9's only to be shown the flaw.
The thing to do is have it reviewed at the Chicago show. Pay for the same day service. Do this regardless of what anyone says.
If it comes back still a 7 ask the customer service rep to get a grader to explain the grade to you. Sometimes they put little stickers on the card pointing out the flaws. 100% sure you will get to talk to the grader. If you don't agree with him ask to speak to Joe O.
You might see the flaw once its pointed out to you, you might not agree with its severity. Don't get mad and throw a fit. Say thanks and move on.
I had a PSA 8 1961 Pirates Team card reviewed and it came back an 8 with little stickers on the corners with arrows. A dealer friend sent it in for a review and it came back a 9.
My point is don't give up on it once you get the news regardless of what they say. I would try 5X at least before throwing in the towel.
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
Unfortunately since this card was graded recently on the .5 scale I think a push to 8 will be tough. They didn't even consider it a high end 7 (7.5) the first go around.
Here's my questions that I'm wondering.
Have you had someone else look at this card? You mention the card has "mint" corners. If this is correct then you are looking at more than a 7.5. You may be looking at an 8.5 or 9. It appears to be a great card with the nice centering being the key.
Steve Hart is a major dealer who does this for his living---Why would he leave so much potential money on the table? I don't care if PSA graded it 10 times in a row a 7 I would not have sold it if I honestly think it's an 8.
What is a same day review on a $2500 card cost at the national---$100 or more?
My last question is always one I have about cards like this---- The grader did not think that that was high end? The grader knows the significance of that card. I think everyone came on here and thought that was high end at the very least. My guess is only 1 grader looked at that card and put the 7 on it and out the door which goes against the whole multiple grader looking at cards theory.
My last comment is example 3 is a dog and should not be an 8 so we really can't use that as a comparison.
My advice is bring it in for review. Don't, I repeat "DON'T" talk to Joe or anybody until you get the reviewed card back if you are not satisfied. Why bring attention to yourself and that card?
Good luck with this and let us know your results.
<< <i>Steve Hart is a major dealer who does this for his living---Why would he leave so much potential money on the table? I don't care if PSA graded it 10 times in a row a 7 I would not have sold it if I honestly think it's an 8. >>
Steve hart told me when I bought the card he thought it was a PSA 8 when he had it graded, and a lock PSA 7.5. I didnt pay PSA 7 money for the card, I paid a definate premium for it. He had it graded while in Newport Beach grading packs, and told me he didnt have time to fight the grader on the grade as he had to catch his flight. He did say he questioned the grader and the grader told him the print dots on the helmer knock the card down.
If anyone wants to help me with a larger scan and cleaning up the scan I have, I am more than happy to send over the scan I have.
<< <i>My advice is bring it in for review. Don't, I repeat "DON'T" talk to Joe or anybody until you get the reviewed card back if you are not satisfied. Why bring attention to yourself and that card? >>
As mentioned when I started this thread, I put a call into Joe Orlando today and he did call me back. He told me to bring the card to him at the National and he would take a look at the card and give me his opinion prior to go through a formal review process. He also said that if he agreed that a review was in order, he would hand walk the card to his head grader and have it reviewed.
Here is a pic cleaned up as best I could. You can see the print spots a bit better.
Jeff
"Molon Labe"
I don't have the card - tho I wish I did - good luck!
Take a close look at the card and determine what you think it should be.................
Scroll down and you will find out what the card is really graded......................
Yes, same card.
<< <i>Here is a pic cleaned up as best I could. You can see the print spots a bit better. >>
Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the help with the scan.
IMO crack that baby and let the chips fall where they may.
I did with my 55 Spahn and it came back EOT the first time and as a 7 the second time.
I have no idea which grade is correct. I only know that it was graded as a 7.5 by GAI.
Matt your card is sweet and I'd send it in for a review.
Steve
<< <i> You made the picture small and poor enough so that all anybody can see is the centering and square corners. Scan the card at a higher quality like the 8 card in your second picture and the defects will be more evident >>
If I could figure out how to scan the picture and make it clearer I would certainly do so. I dont know how to make the picture any larger, and I cant make it any clearer. The other three examples are scans I took straight from EBAY, so how ever the seller had the scan is what I saved on my desktop. Anyone willing to give me a tutorial on how to make the scans nice and crisp, like I see from most on here, I am all ears and more than willing to learn.
At least I think he did.
Steve