Might be getting scammed by an ebay buyer
Blacklabelsociety
Posts: 1,033
Sold a $1600 psa card on ebay. After he receives the card, i get an email saying he wasnt happy with the cards grade. He admitted it was a good card but he said he wasnt happy. He also said the case had a crack in it. I wrote him back and told him i was sorry he wasnt happy with the card. The card looked fine to me. I said psa is a recommended ebay grader and grading is subjective. it said in my description that i dont give returns for graded cards. And there was no cracks on the case. There is no way it could have cracked during shipping, because i always pack cards secure and tight with tons of bubble wrap. If someone dropped it the card and case would still be safe. As soon as he filed a snad with ebay, ebay pulled the money from my paypal account. Odd i thought being he didnt go through paypal. He then asked ebay to make a decision and ebay rules in his favor. So now he is instructed to send me back the card and when it shows it is delievered ebay will give him his refund.
I AM furious. I did not nothing wrong and the buyer wins. sellers have no power at all anymore. He gets a refund because he was not happy with the card when he KNEW what he was getting?? I called ebay and told them they need to do something about buyers taking advantage of the "ebay buyer protection" bs.
I AM furious. I did not nothing wrong and the buyer wins. sellers have no power at all anymore. He gets a refund because he was not happy with the card when he KNEW what he was getting?? I called ebay and told them they need to do something about buyers taking advantage of the "ebay buyer protection" bs.
0
Comments
Yeah and as you have heard here, you better open that package with a Postal Employee as a witness. Who knows what this scumbag may send you, and all he has to do is get the Delivery confirmation. I find it interesting that he didn't pay through Paypal but they can still pull the money. How did this guy pay you? I mean how would he show it was even paid if he didn't pay through Paypal?
Neil
Is it legal for ebay to withhold your paypal money when it was not paid via paypal?
You may want to consider opening the package in front of a postal employee and recorded with a camera phone.
Sure hope it works out for you.
Bob
email bcmiller7@comcast.net
And, most important....Let us know who it is so we can add another to the BBL.
<< <i>
And, most important....Let us know who it is so we can add another to the BBL. >>
Yes indeedy....Need this clowns info!
And while on the subject and as I have mentioned here before, this is exactly why I don't do high dollar deals involving Paypal/E-bay. I listed a Registered set yesterday in my Store, was contacted with on offer last night, countered with the caveat that the deal has to be done outside of Crook Central. I ended listing, he is sending check and I will send him cards.
Fini!!!!
Neil
<< <i>Print out your listing including the pics you used. Have this with you, and also bring any ebay-Paypal emails too. Have it all with you when you open it in front of your postmaster. If it is anything different you'll have proof and can start the mail fraud paperwork etc.
And, most important....Let us know who it is so we can add another to the BBL. >>
Best advice I EVER got here,got screwed out of $1150.00,in return I got a great 89 Jordan BGS 7.5,showed delivered
they refunded.
2nd best advice I got here,empty your paypal account nightly,can't take something you don't have.GL!
Would also like bbl name.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
<< <i>Is it legal for ebay to withhold your paypal money when it was not paid via paypal? >>
I think the seller said the buyer did pay via PayPal, but filed the claim with eBay. So they didn't pull it for a non-PayPal transaction. At least that's how I interpreted it...
Good luck on this one.
Steve
There is a good reason eBay stock is half the price it was.
When all the changes are in place and have had a couple months to have effect, eBay will likely lose another 20-30%, maybe more, of it's collectibles sellers, many who are like me, spend most of the eBay funds...back on eBay.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
that would be kinda fun to watch.
<< <i>And just think....in September eBay will move more against the seller.
There is a good reason eBay stock is half the price it was.
When all the changes are in place and have had a couple months to have effect, eBay will likely lose another 20-30%, maybe more, of it's collectibles sellers, many who are like me, spend most of the eBay funds...back on eBay. >>
Morning,
But look at the big picture here, collectibles Sellers on E-bay are what 1-2% of the total. They don't care...why should they...were inconsequential.
And I don't know about you, but I need E-Bay a lot more than they need me!!! I'll just roll with it and muddle along as best I can for as long as I can.
Neil
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Meanwhile, Businessweek will continue to pimp ebay stock every couple months.
I've been a buyer-seller since before eBay...I will be after eBay.
I am usually never wrong on when to set sail and when to leave ship and I firmly believe the eBay collectible market crash (as we know it) within six months.
I do not feel it is a place anymore that someone like me can depend on making a living from. It has instead reverted to eBay was the first year to me. Sell some cheap cards and whatever I don't want...for some like item I do want, basically. It is and will likely be collector friendly...just not dealer friendly.
I've left show promoters for a fraction of the reasons I have to leave eBay.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Rule number one, never leave any money in your paypal account.
Good luck on this one.
Steve >>
The problem with this is, is it also would mean leaving eBay if something happened. Any money you make will be taken, and it would not let you send money to the seller.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Rule number one, never leave any money in your paypal account.
Good luck on this one.
Steve >>
Does ebay/paypal have the ability to bill one's credit card if there are no funds in paypal account?
eyebone
<< <i>
<< <i>Rule number one, never leave any money in your paypal account.
Good luck on this one.
Steve >>
Does ebay/paypal have the ability to bill one's credit card if there are no funds in paypal account?
eyebone >>
Yes, they tell you this all the time, if there are not sufficient funds they will bill the Card attached to your account. I never thought this through, but that makes it a waste of time to Sweep your account as I do every day. What's the point, they can just charge your Card!
We Need a Storm Call!! Storm? Storm?
Neil
I collect most of the graded series sets. For the most part...I am the only one it appears. Like all cards the production on these is really 10-20x what the market can hold and they are pretty much worthless. Plus most are not high grades. With all the free $0.99 auctions have been able to score several cards for nothing lately.
So if you collect modern cards, you can get you fill of $0.99 auctions....which making a score was always the fun part of eBay. It's just not going to be good for sellers.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>Rule number one, never leave any money in your paypal account.
Good luck on this one.
Steve >>
Does ebay/paypal have the ability to bill one's credit card if there are no funds in paypal account?
eyebone >>
If so, maybe you could then file a chargeback with the credit card company for unauthorized use
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it legal for ebay to withhold your paypal money when it was not paid via paypal? >>
I think the seller said the buyer did pay via PayPal, but filed the claim with eBay. So they didn't pull it for a non-PayPal transaction. At least that's how I interpreted it... >>
That is correct. The buyer paid through paypal but filed the snad claim with ebay. Then ebay took out the funds on my paypal account. After he opened the snad case, we exchanged about 3 emails through ebay before he asked ebay to make a decision.
<< <i>The problem I have here, is that PSA is "supposedly" an approved 3rd party grader. We pay an outside service big money to grade our cards. How then, is this clowns supposed "expert" grading expertise supposed to be taken over PSA?? The more I read crap like this, the more I hate Ebay. >>
Concur and this is what i dont understand? Its like this scum buyer is the expert and psa is at fault/wrong. I could see it if i sold someone a raw card. Then i would probably just agree to give the buyer a refund if he wasnt happy.
When this is all over, i will out the buyer so everyone can put him on their BB list. Right now, since he paid he still has the option to neg me.
They can however from what Storm has said raid it if you use the same card
to pay your ebay fees.
Steve
<< <i>When this is all over, i will out the buyer so everyone can put him on their BB list. Right now, since he paid he still has the option to neg me. >>
The buyer has $1600 and your card, and you're worried about a neg?
Opt-Out. If you do not want to allow PayPal to reimburse eBay for your liability, you may opt-out by calling eBay at 1-866-643-0898.
Your opt-out will be effective within 3 Business Days. If you opt-out then eBay will not use your PayPal Account to recover amounts that
you owe due to an eBay claim that you lost. This opt-out will not affect other amounts that you pay to eBay using your PayPal Account
(such as your eBay fees).
It is still possible that the criminals will "piggyback" any debit-balance
onto your fees. This is illegal and a violation of the 30+ consent decrees
they have signed with state AGs.
The decrees state that, absent your explicit permission, EBAY/PP cannot
rape your bank account or credit/debit card.
(One draft of pending "financial reform" legislation brought PP under
much stricter regulation. It now appears that those sections have
largely been lobbied out of the latest package.)
........................
For years, here and other places, I have encouraged young lawyers to
focus their practice on going after the RICO-gang. Finally, one of the
nation's largest litigation firms has picked up the ball; sadly, NOT one
young upstart has taken my advice. (One Win = Instant Retirement.)
...........................................................
EBAY and PayPal Policy:
An item is NOT Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the Seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:
The defect in the item was correctly described by the Seller.
The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.
The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.
.......................................................................................
EBAY Recommendation............
Grade your trading cards with:
Beckett Grading Services (BGS)
Global Authority
Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA)
Sportcard Guaranty (SGC)
.........................................................................................
The OP's case is likely one of buyer's remorse, due to the dollar amount.
BUT, it could just as easily be a setup for a switcheroo. (Despite the
nonsense of having someone "witness" the opening of the package,
there is NO defense against such EBAY/PayPal-enabled crimes.)
...................................................
Allowing ignorant peasants and criminals to substitute their "grading
skills" for those of the "recommended" graders is a violation of EBAY's
written policy.
EBAY's refusal to abide by their own definitions of "SNAD," is a violation
of their own written policy.
These breaches will likely cost the OP money.
A complaint can be filed at the San Jose BBB.
Small Claims Court is also an option.
.................................................................
The buyer claims the case was compromised.
<< <i>He also said the case had a crack in it. >>
Thus the card within in the case COULD be different than the one that is supposed to be there.
NOT saying the OP did that. Saying simply this is what the buyer may try to claim.
Steve
<< <i>Opt-Out. If you do not want to allow PayPal to reimburse eBay for your liability, you may opt-out by calling eBay at 1-866-643-0898.
Your opt-out will be effective within 3 Business Days. If you opt-out then eBay will not use your PayPal Account to recover amounts that
you owe due to an eBay claim that you lost. This opt-out will not affect other amounts that you pay to eBay using your PayPal Account
(such as your eBay fees). >>
After a 20 minute phone call I came away with questions; I have no automatic invoice paying connection to my paypal account and no secondary automatic source attached to my account so I was told there was nothing to opt-out of. But according to reimbursemant policy stated on ebay, if the item was paid for by paypal it would be an automatic deduction taken from paypal account. How do these two situations work? Was the information I was given accurate in regards to not being able to opt-out?
Thanks Storm.
<< <i>
<< <i>Opt-Out. If you do not want to allow PayPal to reimburse eBay for your liability, you may opt-out by calling eBay at 1-866-643-0898.
Your opt-out will be effective within 3 Business Days. If you opt-out then eBay will not use your PayPal Account to recover amounts that
you owe due to an eBay claim that you lost. This opt-out will not affect other amounts that you pay to eBay using your PayPal Account
(such as your eBay fees). >>
After a 20 minute phone call I came away with questions; I have no automatic invoice paying connection to my paypal account and no secondary automatic source attached to my account so I was told there was nothing to opt-out of. But according to reimbursemant policy stated on ebay, if the item was paid for by paypal it would be an automatic deduction taken from paypal account. How do these two situations work? Was the information I was given accurate in regards to not being able to opt-out?
Thanks Storm. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Good golly almighty!
You might try getting a supervisor on the phone to
explain the SCAM to you.
Q: "What do I have to do in order to prevent EBAY from removing funds from my PayPal account?"
Sadly, the answer seems to be in the newest UA.
.............................................................................
The RICO-Gang needs to be shutdown.
It appears, in reading the UA and hearing what the CS-monkey
told the OP, EBAY has found a way to avoid the consent decrees
that they signed to avoid further enforcement action by the states.
The UA term (in connection with INR/SNAD-decisions made by EBAY,
and not by PayPal):
"Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay,"
clearly renders moot the CD-notion that "explicit authorization" must be
issued before PayPal can rape a seller's financial account.
PayPal was told they could NOT "do it." EBAY may have figured out a
way to "do it" THEMSELVES.
.................................
The "error" rate, based on wide-anecdotal reports, on SNAD-claims
decided by EBAY is becoming astronomical.
They need to be forced to explain to a judge "why" that is so.
PayPal actually looks at the claims; EBAY simply approves them for
any reason, or for no reason at all. EBAY decides a few for sellers, but
not many.
ANY sale made on EBAY should be viewed as a "sale on approval," under
the "Buyer Protection" scheme. This is true regardless of the payment
method used, since there is a mandatory "reimbursement method."
Under the UA, no distinction is made between "electronic/paper" payments.
The existing language would allow a buyer to pay with a paper payment,
file a SNAD with EBAY, and receive a refund via the seller's "reimbursement
method."
Tho the "Buyer Protection" scheme DOES exclude payments made by any
method other than:
PayPal
ProPay
Moneybookers
Paymate
Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account
Bill Me Later
......
And, of course, the BP-scheme also says:
"A good faith dispute does not exist if you improperly claim that the seller has not fulfilled the transaction, if you claim you never received an item when in fact you did, or if you claim the item was different from the item description but the seller can prove otherwise.
Moreover, a good faith dispute does not include buyer's remorse (that is, the item delivered was as described in the item description, but you no longer want the item regardless of the reason)."
.......................................................
The gangsters are totally out of control.
.............
EBAY UA
Resolution Process
We require eBay sellers to comply with our resolution process. Sellers permit us to make a final decision, in our sole discretion, on any claim that a buyer files with eBay under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. If we resolve a dispute in the buyer's favor, we will refund the buyer for the cost of the item and the original shipping, and we will require the seller to reimburse us for the refund.
Without limiting the foregoing, sellers may not have to pay a reimbursement for an eBay claim if they provide the documentation (for example, delivery confirmation or proof that the item was as described) indicated in the eBay Buyer Protection Policy.
Sellers must have a reimbursement method on file with eBay.
For transactions paid with PayPal, sellers agree to allow us to remove funds from their PayPal accounts to reimburse buyers. Sellers may change this reimbursement method by contacting eBay.
When there are insufficient funds in PayPal accounts, transactions are not paid with PayPal, or when PayPal is not the reimbursement method of a seller, we will require another reimbursement method.
For future claims where the seller is found at fault, we will notify the seller and continue to charge the sellers preferred method for any reimbursements made under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy. Changing a reimbursement method will not affect eBay's use of a payment method on file for other purposes (such as payment of your eBay fees).
If sellers do not provide eBay with a valid reimbursement method, we may collect amounts owed using other collection mechanisms, including retaining collection agencies. We may also suspend or restrict sellers from trading on our sites until payment is made.
.........................................
<< <i>Can paypal or eBay through paypal use your secondary source (ie. backup credit card/bank account) to get the funds for a refund? If so what would be the use in depleting your funds on a regular basis? >>
//////////////////////
PayPal cannot, w/o your explicit permission to act in the circumstance.
EBAY's UA says that EBAY can take the money from any "mandatory
reimbursement account" that you specify.
...............
Moving PP funds to a sweep account AND then to a
secondary unaffiliated account would defeat a PP
grab AND an EBAY grab, if your MRA was the sweep
account.
Received Pay Pal money from the buyer, insured it, shipped it with confirmation, gave positive feedback and thought we were done.
Got an email from him a few days ago saying that he was a legit collector of unopened wax, thought the pack was re-wrapped and in his opinion it was not authentic. He said the gum did not fit the size of a 1969 wax, the seal looked funny and he wants to return the pack for a refund.
I think I am going to because in my aution listing I said (as I do all my auctions) full $ back guarantee if not fully satisfied. I like the statement made a few posts ago where the seller specifically says no refunds on graded material ... maybe I should have done that.
I guess my question is, should I be so accomodating to take the pack back ... even though it has been professionaly graded?
<< <i>May I tell you what just happened to me on ebay? I sold a 1969 baseball wax pack GAI 7.5 on ebay 2 weeks ago. I sold for a nice price of around $260.
Received Pay Pal money from the buyer, insured it, shipped it with confirmation, gave positive feedback and thought we were done.
Got an email from him a few days ago saying that he was a legit collector of unopened wax, thought the pack was re-wrapped and in his opinion it was not authentic. He said the gum did not fit the size of a 1969 wax, the seal looked funny and he wants to return the pack for a refund.
I think I am going to because in my aution listing I said (as I do all my auctions) full $ back guarantee if not fully satisfied. I like the statement made a few posts ago where the seller specifically says no refunds on graded material ... maybe I should have done that.
I guess my question is, should I be so accomodating to take the pack back ... even though it has been professionaly graded? >>
As long as he did not open it you should take it back as that was your stated policy.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Not if he cracked the slab/opened the pack.
Ridiculous.
I agree that I should accept the pack returned as it's what I sated in the auction....but, man, that's frustrating.
I'd email him for more information.
Steve
<< <i>May I tell you what just happened to me on ebay? I sold a 1969 baseball wax pack GAI 7.5 on ebay 2 weeks ago. I sold for a nice price of around $260.
Received Pay Pal money from the buyer, insured it, shipped it with confirmation, gave positive feedback and thought we were done.
Got an email from him a few days ago saying that he was a legit collector of unopened wax, thought the pack was re-wrapped and in his opinion it was not authentic. He said the gum did not fit the size of a 1969 wax, the seal looked funny and he wants to return the pack for a refund.
I think I am going to because in my aution listing I said (as I do all my auctions) full $ back guarantee if not fully satisfied. I like the statement made a few posts ago where the seller specifically says no refunds on graded material ... maybe I should have done that.
I guess my question is, should I be so accomodating to take the pack back ... even though it has been professionaly graded? >>
The way eBay is set up now if your item was sold to a scammer, no matter what you have in your listing they will scam you. If he opened it I would fight the refund 'till the end.
Should still always leave yourself an out.
Good luck!