How Important is Centering to You?

quikjam · May 21, 2010 6:13AM

I always look at the centering of a card first regardless of grade. Is that wrong? I feel like even if the corners are soft or print defects exist, a centered card encompasses how the card 'was intended to look' IMO. It's all about the eye appeal to me. It seems like the term 'dead centered' is used way to loosely these days especially on EBay. Thoughts? Images? I have attached one of my newest pick-ups that took me 3 tries to find well centered...

I just upgraded my scanning methods.. How's it look?

quikjam

akuracy503 · May 21, 2010 6:16AM

I also look at Centering first, as well as registration/color.

These factors tell me that the card made it out of the factory perfect, however through time and other factors beyond the original blessing of it's creation did it lose it's mintyness.

jeffcbay · May 21, 2010 6:19AM

When leafing through potential cards to sub, I first look for centering, then I examine the corners, edges, surface, then back of the card. So I suppose that means I hold centering in the higher regard over everything else.

Scan looks nice!

sportscardtheory · May 21, 2010 6:25AM

Centering is key for me.

bigreddog · May 21, 2010 6:25AM

Centering is #1

Even those guys that say they are corner guys first and foremost will see the centering first.
Its just the first thing thats going to pop out at you. Centering is the most focal and eye appeal aspect of any card.

Scan looks good

John

Brick · May 21, 2010 6:26AM

I agree many on ebay brag about centering they should be ashamed of. The Aaron is nice although it seems to have quite a tilt at the top unless my eyes are playing tricks on me. A great card never the less.

billwaltonsbeard · May 21, 2010 6:32AM

Whenever bigreddog posts here, it makes me want to throw on the 1978 Ace Frehley solo album.

baseballfan · May 21, 2010 6:45AM

i could live with corner wear if the card is centered, make the whole card look better

Barfvader · May 21, 2010 6:51AM

<< Whenever bigreddog posts here, it makes me want to throw on the 1978 Ace Frehley solo album. >>

Come on now. You know what you really want to listen to is Gene Simmons singing When You Wish Upon Star.

CollectorAtWork · May 21, 2010 6:53AM

Centering is important to me, but it doesn't have to be perfect. 55/45 is fine, it doesn't have to be 50/50. However, cards that are 75/25 I will definitely avoid buying if possible.

handyman · May 21, 2010 7:12AM

I completely agree with you!

Dboneesq · May 21, 2010 7:57AM

Centering is THE most important thing to me as well. I've recently picked up a few lower graded cards that have good centering and I am fine with them. Here is one of them:

UlyssesExtravaganza · May 21, 2010 8:11AM

When I was a kid, corners were all that mattered. First was just having the card but after that no dinged corners. I could care less about centering unless it looked like the picture was sliding off the card and/or someone else's card was coming onto it. Then I could live 90/10 centering. I think that was partly because it was more common in those days to focus on the corners. I think now it is definitely an era where centering is high on all collector's list. So much that it seems well-centered lower grade cards are highly sought and anything worse than 55/45 at a higher grade is becoming much less appealing of an option given the price associated with that grade in comparison to the cheaper well centered cards. So I've grown to buy into the centering is very important concept as others in the hobby place such a premium on it. But part of me wonders if in twenty years what we value then will be a major shift from what we value now. And the Aaron looks great by the way.

MeteoriteGuy · May 21, 2010 8:16AM

My answer would likely depend on the card and how the oc is. For example, top to bottom look alright on about 30-40% of the sets. Ignoring this factor and using a "generic" made up card in my head.....the only thing worse then an o/c card is one with heavy crease.

GDM67 · May 21, 2010 8:19AM

It's behind registry and color for me, but you guys banging on about it the last few years here has altered my thinking and made me more cognizant of it.

I'm still sticking with my long time contention that T/B is far less important than L/R.

akuracy503 · May 21, 2010 8:29AM

<< It's behind registry and color for me, but you guys banging on about it the last few years here has altered my thinking and made me more cognizant of it.

I'm still sticking with my long time contention that T/B is far less important than L/R. >>

T/B even on horizontal cards, like 55 topps?

SDSportsFan · May 21, 2010 8:29AM

Centering always comes first in my mind. If it's too far OC (even if without an "OC" qualifier), or diamond-cut, I immediately pass on it.

Steve

Indy78 · May 21, 2010 8:40AM

In order of importance from most to least important for me:

1. Surface which includes registration/color/scuffing/scratches/heavy creasing easily visible at first glance (I don't care how perfectly centered and sharply cornered/edged a card may be, if it's evenly mildly out of register, faded, or lightly scratched or scuffed, I don't want it.)

2. Centering

3. Corners

4. Wrinkles and light creasing that can only be easily seen by rotating the card or looking through a loupe. I have a few cards in PSA 4 or 5 holders with mild wrinkles that otherwise would be 7's, 8's, or 9's. I'll take these all day long - tremendous bang for the buck.

divecchia · May 21, 2010 8:44AM

For me centering is the first thing I look at.

Donato

Edited to add: Nice scan of a terrific looking card...

GDM67 · May 21, 2010 8:53AM

<< 

<< It's behind registry and color for me, but you guys banging on about it the last few years here has altered my thinking and made me more cognizant of it.

I'm still sticking with my long time contention that T/B is far less important than L/R. >>

T/B even on horizontal cards, like 55 topps? >>

No, not really. The horizontal orientation calls too much attentionm to it then.

handyman · May 21, 2010 9:01AM

Ive been searching for a well centered 1957 Yogi for many years now and this month I picked this one up and just got it back from PSA this week.
This card is not 50-50 but its as close as Ive come to one. Most 8s on this card seem to be 70-30 . Love this card

I would probably pay 150.00 more than regular price for this card if it was an 8 and nuts centered. I think most people feel the same way about certain cards they want dead centered. Its been a big move towards this it seems in the last 4 years.

Indy78 · May 21, 2010 9:19AM

I think most people feel the same way about certain cards they want dead centered.

I agree. One of the few exceptions to my desire for good registration/color over centering is the 1975 mini Bench #260 and Ryan (660), I think because they are both such a challenge to find well centered, especially the Bench.

Very nice 57 Yogi by the way. All of that card's attributes are awesome. Congrats on a nice find.

itzagoner · May 21, 2010 9:29AM

if you've spent any time at all in an art museum, then you understand the obsession with centering.....presentation is vital to eye appeal, and defers to bordering as we do when examining an attractive card.

i've been to many art museums in my lifetime, and have yet to see a piece of fine art in an off-centered frame.

SDSportsFan · May 21, 2010 10:18AM

Let me put it this way.....

My obsession with centering is the sole reason I still do not have a PSA 8 Lance Alworth 1963 Fleer rookie card

Steve

toothshucker · May 21, 2010 10:31AM

Very interesting how impressions have changed. Back just a few years ago "corners" ruled the PSA crew- centering was much less important. Beckett grading came along and stressed the importance of centering. Centering seems to rule now- think about PSA half grades protocol etc.

jdmi32 · May 21, 2010 10:48AM

That's a fantastic 57 Berra. So hard to find with centering and registration like that. Congrats.

For me, centering is far and away the most crucial factor. Even if everything else is spot-on, if the centering's not there, I'm not interested. My ideal card in terms of price and presentation is an eight with perfect centering and registration, with the flaw being a touched corner which keeps it from grading higher. These are a few of my favorite cards from my 57 set.

....

jradke4 · May 21, 2010 11:27AM

centering first then corners the rest then follow.

1960toppsguy · May 21, 2010 12:39PM

I personally look at the color and registration, I love vivid color and white borders without toning, corners would be next and centering is the least important to me, that being said . . . if I want diamonds, I buy jewelry; I hate diamond cut cards the most.

1960toppsguy · May 21, 2010 12:52PM

One more note, those four common 57's seem to have it all where the 1957 Berra just has that dingy look (nothing personal) that I have a real hard time with; maybe being a bit odd has saved me some loot along the way since I can deal with cards that are clean but not necessarilly perfectly centered.

SidePocket · May 21, 2010 12:54PM

Centering is def number one, but registration is also key and is often difficult to ascertain with a scan.

I thought this Drysdale was perfect til I had it in hand -

onebamafan · May 21, 2010 12:54PM

With vintage it is the top priority for me.

1960toppsguy · May 21, 2010 1:11PM

I hate when things like that happen with enhanced scans. By that scan that is a clean DD.

HoofHearted · May 21, 2010 1:30PM

<< It's behind registry and color for me, but you guys banging on about it the last few years here has altered my thinking and made me more cognizant of it.

I'm still sticking with my long time contention that T/B is far less important than L/R. >>

I whole-heartedly agree with this assessment.

When I see a card in any grade that's OC T/B and L/R, I cringe. It just ain't pretty to look at -- even from a distance without getting to the registration, etc.

There are some real beauts shown here. Thanks for sharing the artwork!

Jeff, you gotta be one of the most quoted -- and sung about -- board members. I like your quote and plan on saving if for future use. Hope you don't mind!!

<< i've been to many art museums in my lifetime, and have yet to see a piece of fine art in an off-centered frame. >>

ICE9 · May 21, 2010 1:39PM

Rather have 4 sharp ones than perfect centering.

MULLINS5 · May 21, 2010 1:51PM

<< Let me put it this way.....

My obsession with centering is the sole reason I still do not have a PSA 8 Lance Alworth 1963 Fleer rookie card

Steve >>

And why I do not own, and probably never will own, a Bobby Hull rookie.

DeutscherGeist · May 21, 2010 8:00PM

To be honest, I look at centering and photo quality (focus, color) nowadays. In the past, it was corners and edges first and then moved on to photo and centering. Corners, photo quality and centering had to be there for me to be interested in the card in the past.

With the rise of grading companies and ebay as a shopping medium, all I can really see is the centering. Because the card is graded, I no longer worry about corners or edges. Keep in mind I am talking about PSA 8 or better modern cards. Centering is really all you can determine from a scan.

I still regard corners and edges as the most important, but I no longer have to worry about that if the card is graded.

Even if a raw card were perfectly centered but had a weak corner, I still would not take it because I am dealing in an era of cards where there is so much supply that waiting for the right one is better and realisitic.

The Yogi Berra card is actually really attractive. I can see it is not dead center, but many people would say it is. Even PSA 10s have centering like that many times. As for the Hank Aaron card, it appears to be tilted a little ever so slightly. Not a dead centered card, but very few people will even notice that. It could be the scan is giving an illusion.

Blacklabelsociety · May 21, 2010 9:25PM

<< 

<< Whenever bigreddog posts here, it makes me want to throw on the 1978 Ace Frehley solo album. >>

Come on now. You know what you really want to listen to is Gene Simmons singing When You Wish Upon Star.

>>

Anomaly is better than ace's 78 album.

anyway, no centering means little to me in terms of eye appeal. Sharp corners are much more important.

GDM67 · May 21, 2010 9:57PM

Incidentally, almost every '65 Aaron I've ever seen appears to be a bit tilted if you look at the top border. I think it's just the cumulative effect of the way he's holding the bat and tilting his head or something. Like an Escher drawing.

MBMiller25 · May 21, 2010 10:08PM

Centering first and foremost for me, then corners, then color and registration.

Garabaldi · May 21, 2010 10:08PM

I always look at centering first and then the corners.

bobsbbcards · May 21, 2010 11:24PM

1) Image crispness, color, registration, lack of print flecks, square cut, etc.

2) Centering but only to guarantee that it is within a certain range. I think that my tolerance is around 60/40. With the centering worse than that, I might pass on the card (unless there are other attributes that force me to reconsider). Here's an example of a card where the centering didn't bother me enough to pass on it:

Once the centering is within those parameters, I move on to......

3) Corners and edges. If a card has bad corners, I don't care how well centered it is, I'll still pass on it.

4) Back. I'm not really a back guy, but I can imagine a scenario where I wouldn't buy a card if the ink on the back was smeared or there was a large gum stain.

fiveniner · May 22, 2010 12:12AM

<< Centering is THE most important thing to me as well. I've recently picked up a few lower graded cards that have good centering and I am fine with them. Here is one of them:

>>

Nice card my freind.I would not mind if I had an entire set of 5s that look that good.

Tony

UlyssesExtravaganza · May 22, 2010 1:49AM

<< Incidentally, almost every '65 Aaron I've ever seen appears to be a bit tilted if you look at the top border. I think it's just the cumulative effect of the way he's holding the bat and tilting his head or something. Like an Escher drawing. >>

I feel like 59 Topps baseball has that effect for me too. No matter how perfectly centered the card is, what's going on inside the border looks off to me. 84 Topps football works in a similar way for me.

Stone193 · May 22, 2010 2:43AM

First, superb card qJ!

We've had the centering discussion many times and I have to say - over the years - going back to around 1988 - I've changed.

Centering wasn't an issue for me back then - if the card exhibited great color, registration and surface luster - I was sold.

I've been working on a 63F BB set since 2004 - and the early cards selected were 60/40 and economical - now I look for well centered cards - no worse than 55/45.

And - the prices that cards bring in the same grade reflect centering with respect to the final hammer.

GDM67 · May 22, 2010 1:03PM

<< 84 Topps football works in a similar way for me. >>

Definitely. Those cards can give me a headache after a little while.

otwcards · May 22, 2010 1:09PM

I prefer well centered. When you're too far left or too far right, I stop listening . . .

Oh, and I like my cards centered, too!

quikjam · May 23, 2010 4:19AM

I appreciate the help! Thanks for all the responses and comments. Incidentally, the reason I created this thread was because I'm on the fence about the 65 Aaron. Everything is there; corners, color, registration, edges, etc. but that top right border is keeping my eye's attention. Is there a tilt? Is it an illusion? Maybe somebody can throw a JRuler on it for me? It only serves my point, and many others in this thread that centering can make or break your decision to bid or pass on a card. Believe me; I know I'm being very picky when it comes to centering. I will probably regret some of the cards I passed up waiting on a better centered example. It's good to know I'm not the only one who can look past other defects so long as the centering is there. Especially L/R centering.

quikjam

1958 Topps #310 Ernie Banks. This card was formerly a 7 that I had no isssues with at all becasue of the centering.

GDM67 · May 23, 2010 9:30AM

That looks more like an 8 or 8.5 to me. Superb card.

quikjam · May 24, 2010 12:23AM

A few more cards...

1957 Topps #10 Willie Mays. I had searched high and low for a centered copy... LOVE this card.

1959 Topps #561 Hank Aaron. One of my best centered cards... I've seen sharper and more colorful examples..but not with this centering.

Edited for broken photo link.

quikjam · May 24, 2010 6:40AM

That looks more like an 8 or 8.5 to me. Superb card. -GDM67

THANKS! I'm happy with the holder it's in... I've never been brave enough to the crack and resubmit.

GDM67 · May 24, 2010 8:21AM

<< THANKS! I'm happy with the holder it's in... I've never been brave enough to the crack and resubmit. >>

It's a gorgeous card and it's safe and sound. Leave it right where it is.

The Aaron All Star is really nice, too. That card is a bear to find centered (so is his regular '59 card, in my experience.)

How Important is Centering to You?

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