Feedback Extortion?
clayshooter22
Posts: 727 ✭✭✭
I have a question about an ebay auction that I won. Card was listed as “mint” and, even though we all know that seller routinely don’t know what mint really is, I did email him to verify that the card was mint – to the definition. He replied that it was mint.
When the card arrives it has two rounded corners. I have the highest graded copy already, PSA 8, and this will not be an upgrade, if graded.
Also, be aware we are talking about a $4.25 sale, so its hardly even worth spending two minutes on but my first reaction is to send an email to refund all or part as I don’t want the hassle of sending back…would this be feedback extortion if I accompany the request noting my dissatisfaction and feedback will be left accordingly? I think it is but I wanted to check. He has 100% and only 4 sales so maybe he cares?
Of course, I’m well aware of buying from low feedback sellers and claims of mint.
Mike
When the card arrives it has two rounded corners. I have the highest graded copy already, PSA 8, and this will not be an upgrade, if graded.
Also, be aware we are talking about a $4.25 sale, so its hardly even worth spending two minutes on but my first reaction is to send an email to refund all or part as I don’t want the hassle of sending back…would this be feedback extortion if I accompany the request noting my dissatisfaction and feedback will be left accordingly? I think it is but I wanted to check. He has 100% and only 4 sales so maybe he cares?
Of course, I’m well aware of buying from low feedback sellers and claims of mint.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
0
Comments
NEVER mention prospective feedback when dealing with a seller.
Simply tell the seller what you want him to do. If he does not
comply to your satisfaction, leave the FB you feel is appropriate.
"...saying that you will leave the appropriate feedback isn't extortion. It's not extortion as you are allowed to leave "appropriate" feedback...."
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Very true.
The risks of threatening sellers have little to do with what is
and is not "extortion."
The chance of most experienced sellers bending to threats
is near ZERO.
MANY sellers will retaliate against threatening-buyers by
placing the buyers on network-BBLs. (Numerous other
payback tactics can also be employed.)
Polite and firm demands are the way to get good results. FB
threats don't work and can have unexpected consequences.
The cleanest/easiest recourse for unhappy buyers is to simply
file a SNAD-claim with PayPal. No contact with the seller is
required to obtain a refund.
................
Requests for partial refunds are viewed as a SCAM by MANY
sellers. Buyers that want a refund should send the item back
to the seller, per EBAY/PayPal policies.
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What are the guidelines?
Allowed
Examples that aren't Feedback extortion
A buyer pays for an item and waits several weeks for it to arrive. The buyer then emails the seller, "The item is already late, if it's not here by tomorrow I'll leave you negative Feedback."
A buyer receives an item and decides the item is significantly not as it was described in the original listing. The buyer threatens to leave negative Feedback unless the seller allows it to be returned for a refund.
Not allowed
Examples of Feedback extortion
A buyer purchases a vehicle, and along with payment, sends an email saying, "If you don't include high performance tires and rims at no extra charge I'll leave you negative Feedback."
A seller receives payment from a buyer and then tells the buyer, "Leave me positive Feedback or I won't ship your item."
A buyer purchases an item and demands that the seller ship it using a faster service than was specified in the listing in return for higher detailed seller ratings.
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<< <i>......my first reaction is to send an email to refund all or part as I don’t want the hassle of sending back.... >>
So one of your scenarios has him refunding you 100% of your money and you keep his card? Am I reading that right?
<< <i>Mercy it's $4.25. Leave appropriate feedback stating that the card was "grossly overgraded" and move on. >>
I agree...just did that with a $10 card last week myself. I blamed myself for believing a low feedback seller in the first place. I even gave him a positive but dinged him on the stars for "Item as described" and warned future bidders about the over-grading in the comment.
A seller was unhappy with a card I sold him/her and rather than contact me he just leaves me a negative comment. I would have gladly discussed a partial refund, full refund, or sending an identical card.
If you want your money back file a SNAD claim with Paypal and return the card. If you don't want to bother returning the card because returning it with delivery confirmation will cost you almost what you paid for the card, I would just leave what you feel is the right feedback and move on.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
I tend to agree with this.
The fact is you as a buyer have to know that people overstate condition and/or don't know what real condition is. How many of us talked about "near mint" or "mint" cards until we got into getting cards graded and found out the real definitions!?
It also sounds like this must be a tough card if your PSA 8 is the highest graded to date, so what would this card bring if it was a PSA 9?
Communication is always the best way to go, because you can't tell what the other person is thinking until you ask them. JMHO
I feel wierd asking for a refund as I don't give them. I always use DC and have never lost a package in all my years on ebay.
However, I sent a email specifically to ask condition as a PSA 9 would be a nice card, maybe $30-50.
I'd also be kinda torked off if someone just hit my 100% feedback with a neg without some sort of contact.....although we've all had this done to us which is why many have mult IDs.
I'll just send a polite email and see where that goes. I can always hit his feedback and move on if the polite route doesn't work.
Mike
Kirby Puckett Master Set
Let us know the update. Some sellers will cooperate, others will not. Use feedback appropriately if he does not try to make good on his sale. Its such a low dollar item that sending it back will cost you the same amount you seek as a refund. Its a card you like anyway, so make the best of it.
I understand you went out of your way to ask if this card was really mint--it was far from it. You did everything correct, but the more stories I read about this, the more I think I should wait for a graded version of the card I want and not risk the headache of a raw overgraded card.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
You said when the card arrived it had 2 rounded corners?
You couldn't see that from the picture?
Or did the seller not have one?
Steve
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Thanks for the comments.
I feel wierd asking for a refund as I don't give them. >>
I think it's funny that some sellers still think they can refuse refunds.
<< <i>Hi Clay.
You said when the card arrived it had 2 rounded corners?
You couldn't see that from the picture?
Or did the seller not have one?
Steve >>
Here's the scan...not great but he did use a contrast background to highlight...tell me if you see it because I don't.
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks for the comments.
I feel wierd asking for a refund as I don't give them. >>
I think it's funny that some sellers still think they can refuse refunds. >>
I think it's funny when people know half the story and comment like they know the whole story......
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks for the comments.
I feel wierd asking for a refund as I don't give them. >>
I think it's funny that some sellers still think they can refuse refunds. >>
I think it's funny when people know half the story and comment like they know the whole story...... >>
Of course. It's your auction and you can do whatever you want, but sellers cannot refuse refunds on raw cards. It is a fact.
If you try, and if you make the seller fight you for it thru paypal, they will win and you'll probably get a neg.
I recently bought an EXMT set (it even said 'exmt' on the set box) which was advertised as "nmmt to mint". I returned it and asked for a refund. He stonewalled and said he'd fight it through pp. I won the claim SNAD (buyers will always win) and left him a neg for making me wait 10 days. Here's the link. He went from 100% to 99.6 because he thought it was in his best interest to refuse a refund. It's only the 5th neg I've left in 12 years.
Again, you can do what you want, but I'd be cautious. These rules don't favor sellers.
1. (main definnition is using public office to obtain property)
2. The act or practice of obtaining something or compelling some action by illegal means, as by force or coercion
I believe the "illegal means" colors that definition - so as leaving honest feedback is not illegal I think you are OK.
Coercion - Compulsion by physical force or threat of pysical force; alt. Conduct that constitutes the improper use of economic power to compel another to submit to the wishes of one who wields it.
Applying a reasonable man standard I don't think threatening negative feedback rises to the level of compelling submission to one's wishes.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
"...I don't think threatening negative feedback rises to the level of compelling submission to one's wishes...."
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Of course it doesn't.
Unless, the "threat" is combined with a demand for some additional
action by the seller that was not contemplated in the listing.
"Send me a partial refund and let me keep the item or I will NEG you,"
is FB extortion.
"I am returning the item and if you don't refund my money, I will NEG you,"
is not FB extortion.
.......
I pictured 'rounded corners' as in a Good card.
I agree I can't tell from the scan either. IMO they are touched corners.
In any event I'd probably just chalk it up as an education.
Steve
saucywombat@hotmail.com
<< <i>I still think the illegal aspect of the definition would play heavily and you would need the context under which such demands were made. Though coercive they probably don't rise to the leve lof extortion. >>
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But, we don't wanna confuse EBAY TOS with "the law."
The term "extortion" means something different in
law than it does when related to an EBAY-rule that
prohibits "feedback extortion."
I think the best way to handle situations where you are not happy with the item is to give the seller a chance to remedy. Very politely tell the seller what the problem is and attach pictures of what you mean. By attaching pictures to point out what you mean gives the seller the impression that you are being straight forward (more so than no picture, that's for sure). Pictures help illustrate your complaint and give it credibility. Just saying the item is defective without providing the picture is not as tight a case. Ask the seller how they want to remedy this and leave it open ended. They can then ask you what option your prefer and go from there. I used this approach several times and I always got somewhere with it. A partial refund is sometimes a good appropriate remedy, but a buyer should not propose it because there are many scams of that nature and its not a good idea to give the seller the wrong impression.
If an electronic device does not work, a picture won't capture it, but a short video clip with a digital camera illustrating you trying to turn it on will be compelling. A seller will then see that there is some merit to it more so than without any evidence.
I had an incident where the item was not as described and I politely contacted the seller about it. After some time, I got no response, so I had no choice but to neg him. Hours later, I get an apology and some options to remedy. I took his negative away because he eventually made good on it and saw no point in harming people that apologize and want to remedy--he really cleared things up quickly once I got his attention, so that is good of him!
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
[g]I agree...just did that with a $10 card last week myself. I blamed myself for believing a low feedback seller in the first place. I even gave him a positive but dinged him on the stars for "Item as described" and warned future bidders about the over-grading in the comment. >>
Did you even contact the seller to see if he would remedy? If so, and you got no answer or favorable response, why did you hesitate launching a NEG? If the feedback percentage is not lower than 100%, I assume no one complained. Leaving a positive and then putting a negative comment does not help much because that comment is not going to stick out to anyone. This is not a critique, just curious.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
"...Leaving a positive and then putting a negative comment does not help much because that comment is not going to stick out to anyone...."
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Not Allowed:
Negative statements left for a buyer that conflict with the positive rating.
Such FB will be removed on request of the buyer.