'52 Mantles and King of Prussia

DrLou · March 16, 2010 2:23PM

Had a chance to skip away and check out this card show and Levi of 707 Sportscards had about a half dozen PSA Mantles...Seems like he has a monopoly on this market, any opinions? I didn't see any other dealers with this iconic card...Thanks-Lou

Overrated · March 16, 2010 3:50PM

Thats the card everybody wants! any collecter worth his salt, wants one. The 52 Mantle is a slice of American pie.

divecchia · March 16, 2010 4:13PM

In the 1990's I remember seeing more than a dozen of them in his case at the Shriner's show in Wilmington, Massachusetts.

Definitely an iconic card that I would love to have...Donato

mikeschmidt · March 16, 2010 5:33PM

"monopoly" is quite the overstatement. Even if he has twenty of them, it is a double-printed card, and PSA has graded nearly one thousand of them.

The card is in every major auction [if not multiple copies]. If you want one, you will never have a problem finding one, it is simply a matter of the economics.

DeutscherGeist · March 16, 2010 6:33PM

The title "King of Prussia" drew me in. I do not understand the reference as I read this thread. I thought this might be something about Frederick the Great or a gold coin he is on.

That Mantle rookie is an iconic card. I would imagine his other cards are not too shabby either. How have the prices been on his cards in the past 10 years? I would not be surprised if they have increased, even with the recession we currently have.

Aren't Babe Ruth early cards also iconic?

I thought maybe Cal Ripken's rookie would achieve similar status, but his 1982 Topps Traded can be had cheaper than 10-15 years ago.

csmtampa · March 16, 2010 7:15PM

King of Prussia is a city in Pennsylvania.

The Mantle is an iconic card and will always be desired.

As far as Levi cornering the market.... No

72skywalker · March 16, 2010 9:27PM

<< In the 1990's I remember seeing more than a dozen of them in his case at the Shriner's show in Wilmington, Massachusetts.

Definitely an iconic card that I would love to have...Donato >>

This past fall 707 had 6-7 PSA 52 mantles in his case at the Shriners show.

twiley · March 16, 2010 11:56PM

There was another dealer with the card at the philly show. You musta missed it. I was not in the market for the card as I was looking for a 93 UD SP Derek Jeter psa 9 to add to my collection. You are correct that 707 had the most of that card at the show but there was another dealer who did have one on display 4sale there.

Ironmanfan · March 17, 2010 12:14AM

<< King of Prussia is a city in Pennsylvania.

The Mantle is an iconic card and will always be desired.

As far as Levi cornering the market.... No >>

I thought Levi looked silly wearing the white top hat

mlbfan2 · March 17, 2010 1:15AM

<< Had a chance to skip away and check out this card show and Levi of 707 Sportscards had about a half dozen PSA Mantles...Seems like he has a monopoly on this market, any opinions? I didn't see any other dealers with this iconic card...Thanks-Lou >>

He only had 6? He has 13 on ebay as we speak.

RipublicaninMass · March 17, 2010 1:17AM

<< 

<< Had a chance to skip away and check out this card show and Levi of 707 Sportscards had about a half dozen PSA Mantles...Seems like he has a monopoly on this market, any opinions? I didn't see any other dealers with this iconic card...Thanks-Lou >>

He only had 6? He has 13 on ebay as we speak. >>

and probably 10-12 of his Bowman true Rc

DrLou · March 17, 2010 1:41AM

Yes, he had several Bowmans as well. His table didn't have any customers though but I enjoyed looking at his cards. The only really busy tables were sellers who clearly offered bargains

DrLou · March 17, 2010 1:42AM

He had one PSA 2 Topps '52 that had great eye appeal and was undergraded. He also had a thrasher. Seems like everything he had out was PSA graded, very little raw

thunderdan · March 17, 2010 1:48AM

<< "monopoly" is quite the overstatement. Even if he has twenty of them, it is a double-printed card, and PSA has graded nearly one thousand of them.

The card is in every major auction [if not multiple copies]. If you want one, you will never have a problem finding one, it is simply a matter of the economics. >>

Exactly, he certainly doesn't have a monopoly. While Levi has a large inventory of vintage, including the '52 Mantle, there are plenty of other places to buy one graded. If you shop around and are patient, you can find a nice one for a reasonable price from a reputable dealer--especially in this market. One of the reason Levi has so many of them is because he never turns them over because his prices--in many cases--are out of line with market demand.

I have no problem with how he prices by the way; however, I know I've purchased 3 nice vintage cards in the last month where he had each one in the grade I wanted for at least 30-40% above VCP average, and his were poor examples for grade, so to me it wasn't worth paying any kind of premium. In each case, I shopped around and found a nicer example for the grade at a MUCH lower price.

Very nice guy, though.

DrLou · March 17, 2010 2:06AM

I realize "monopoly" is strong but at the show he was the only one with the Mantle that I saw so in that environment he's pretty darn close. I also ran a search on eBay and of the 20 or so graded Mantles available for sale over half of them are owned by 707--now that's impressive for one seller to own that large a chunk of Mantles

thunderdan · March 17, 2010 2:13AM

Minty, I view it differently. To me, it's not impressive that he has a hoard of '52 Mantles since he's in the business of SELLING cards. Rather, it's an indication that his prices are out of whack with the market. All of this of course assumes that he's in this business to make a living (i.e. earn a profit), which appears to be the case if he's frequenting these shows. On the other hand, if he aims to accumulate expensive vintage cards, he appears to be wildly successful.

As has been mentioned by others, there are many other reputable sellers that sell the '52 Mantles at much more reasonable prices. I'm including eBay, Memory Lane, REA, Mile High, etc. Even at the high-end auction houses you'd have a good shot at beating Levi's prices. In fact, if you look at some of his vintage cards, he has purchased a number of them from Memory Lane and Mile High. Then comes the 30-40% Levi markup on top of what can sometimes be an already high closing price at the auction house.

At any given point on eBay, Levi tends to have a lot of '52 Mantles. But again, having watched this specific card closely over the last 2 years, there are plenty of other reputable sellers with the same card at much better prices. Maybe he had a monopoly at that particular card show, but he certainly doesn't have one overall--on the '52 Mantle or anything else.

RipublicaninMass · March 17, 2010 2:25AM

its a "show" at his table. How many collectors walk into a show saying "today I buy my 52 Mantle", sure if it is in the commons bin I'll do or grossly underpriced. I overheard someone at a show mention there was a Psa 6 mantle for 5-6k..after I RAN over to the table knocking people over, I saw it was psa 6 o/c.

Downtown1974 · March 17, 2010 2:38AM

Levi will not go hungry or lose his home if he doesnt sell any cards. Im sure he is well aware of his prices and how they are higher than most. He can afford to sit back and wait until someone buys them, and believe me, someone always does. He is a great go-to guy. Chances are...he has what you are looking for.

bking · March 17, 2010 2:52AM

<< Levi will not go hungry or lose his home if he doesnt sell any cards. Im sure he is well aware of his prices and how they are higher than most. He can afford to sit back and wait until someone buys them, and believe me, someone always does. He is a great go-to guy. Chances are...he has what you are looking for. >>

I keep hearing that, and I don't dispute that others know A LOT more about him than I do, but has he ever heard of loss-leaders?? Even his easily-to-obtain cards are out of whack.

baseballfan · March 17, 2010 3:11AM

<< Levi will not go hungry or lose his home if he doesnt sell any cards. Im sure he is well aware of his prices and how they are higher than most. He can afford to sit back and wait until someone buys them, and believe me, someone always does. He is a great go-to guy. Chances are...he has what you are looking for. >>

i agree he's the guy to go to if your down to a couple of cards to finish a set, chances are he has them in multiple grades.

if he only had 6 or so his inventory is low. i have seen him at that show wiht multiples in many grades.

mike22y2k · March 17, 2010 3:57AM

707 had the worst service of any dealer at the show. Most people would talk to you and ask what you might be looking for. They were more interested in talking together.
Wait a minute...there was a young girl who did say you won't find that here!

At least Steve from BBCex was a great guy.

WinPitcher · March 17, 2010 5:26AM

<< His table didn't have any customers >>

When that show ended HE probably out grossed everyone.

Steve

BugOnTheRug · March 17, 2010 5:41AM

<< Even his easily-to-obtain cards are out of whack. >>

I recently sent a best-offer for a mid-grade 1970 run-of-the-mill star card. Levi had it at 100, so I offered VCP at around $60. Figured he won't budge, but what the heck.......

To my surprise he did budge, all the way down to $94.

bobbyw8469 · March 17, 2010 5:44AM

He did the same thing to me with a 1953 Satchell Paige PSA 3. Way higher than most. I offered him VCP, and he knocked his price down $5. I ended up winning one for a little less than VCP and saved around $40......

thunderdan · March 17, 2010 7:39AM

I bought a 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig PSA 3 recently. Made Levi an offer in email as I wanted to apply bing cashback on a lower buy it now. I waited a week and then won that same card/grade (the one I won has better centering and overall eye appeal IMHO) for HALF the amount of his listing price. That PSA 3 for $1,500 will be there for a long while. Somebody said he always gets his price. I don't believe it, if by "price" we mean original price. I've seen him lower the prices on cards because he did NOT get his original price, so at some point (and for some price), he does get a little more motivated to sell.

Personally, I've never seen him carry a card so rare that I simply couldn't wait for a much better opportunity to come around. Maybe there are exceptions, but not for any of the cards I've been pursuing.

But, like I said earlier, I have no qualms about his strategy. I'll probably never transact with him, but then I'm probably not his target audience anyway. Here's his selling strategy pasted from his website:

"Selling

We're retailers not wholesalers. We make no claims of always having the cheapest prices for everything. We price cards for what we feel they're worth at time we get them in based on the quality, demand, and our experience in the past with a similar card. We simply offer a choice and offer a large selection of cards in a wide range of condition and price. If you shop price we might have something for you, if you shop quality we might have something for you. Scarcity and demand has much to do with how we price things. Low demand cards will be priced at lower levels and high demand cards will be priced accordingly. Pricing desirable cards for retail that always sell for more than the low prices in guides is a difficult task. Many seller's won't even try to put a fixed price on their harder cards and instead will only auction them. We price cards based on many things and what similar cards are capable of selling for in a good auction is taken into consideration. We know what's good and bad and try to keep many of the more desirable cards in stock, and this means we must pay a competitive price to obtain them. In many cases the premium we're willing to pay for them exceeds what a collector who simply relies on a price guide will value them at. It's all supply and demand and we can't sell everybody the card they want at the price they want to pay. We offer a wide selection of cards and prices and most people who are actually buying cards know their area of specialty pretty well. If you're shopping card or price we'll usually have something available for you to consider and compare with what else is available out there."

Cards aside, though, he really should consider investing some of those gargantuan profit margins into his website's design and information architecture. It's like I'm on a website straight out of 1998, back when most people didn't care whether or not their websites actually converted.

bking · March 17, 2010 8:10AM

Side question - why exactly is he the ONLY seller I ever see when I bother to look in Collector's Corner?

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · March 17, 2010 9:51AM

2009 National Thread pics

Here's 707's at the '09 National..

corvette1340 · March 17, 2010 10:14AM

I don't care if 707 has the market completely cornered on something and I need THAT card to complete my set, they will not get business from me purely because of their ridiculously priced BIN's.

jeffcbay · March 17, 2010 10:18AM

I guess that's one way to force the market up on their investment.

otwcards · March 17, 2010 10:39AM

It might be interesting to note that many hold a negative opinion of Levi and his pricing structure. Many are critical of his marketing, website, display, customer service, etc. I've heard others complain because he rents showcases for almost all of the major shows. Simply put, Levi makes money. While people sit and complain about his prices, he still sells. Those that complain aren't his target clients. Say what you will about him, but he makes money and isn't hurting or trying to show off. It's just that he has an business model that isn't designed on liquidating, but rather having the supply.

If you really want to see Levi in action, watch his table during the National when 2-3 collectors try to secure the last few 48-49 Leaf SP's they need to complete their sets. I watched one guy lay out stupid money to land a Satchel Paige to complete his set to the tune of nearly quadruple book for a card that was barely intact and would've been hard pressed to grade GD. Yes, that's quadruple book in EX/MT condition for a card that was PR-GD...

Smuggo · March 17, 2010 10:45AM

They are his cards and he can ask what he wants. He has been at this a long time so he obviously knows what he's doing. Besides, can a man in a white top hat and a Molly Hatchett t-shirt be all bad?

msassin · March 17, 2010 11:53AM

<< They are his cards and he can ask what he wants. He has been at this a long time so he obviously knows what he's doing. Besides, can a man in a white top hat and a Molly Hatchett t-shirt be all bad? >>

WinPitcher · March 17, 2010 12:02PM

What Scott said........

Steve

Bunker · March 17, 2010 12:03PM

Whatever he is doing is apprently working for him as he has been at this for awhile.

I was wondering if anyone here has ever sold a card outright to him? I don't mean an ebay purchase, but a walk into his store or walk up to his table and sell to him?

I was curious if he pays strong or if he beats you down on your price?

gemmintrarities · March 17, 2010 12:10PM

My first and only interaction with him was negative. For the most part, there are cheaper alternatives than 707. I would never give him a dime.

perkdog · March 17, 2010 12:20PM

<< For the most part, there are cheaper alternatives than 707. I would never give him a dime. >>

Agreed!

tigerdean · March 17, 2010 12:28PM

I only deal with him on cards priced less than $50 so then I am not offended when he budges $3 to $5 and I only deal with him when I really want something otherwise I stay away. I try not to deal with people who are only in it for the money.

mknez · March 17, 2010 12:39PM

I sat at the same table as him at the PSA lunch at the last National. Having never met him before, I came away with a good feeling for him as a person. I wouldn't overpay for a card simply because he had it available, but it's his business model, and it works for him.

WinPitcher · March 17, 2010 12:40PM

What dealer isn't in it for the money?

What collector for that matter too?

Steve

Smuggo · March 17, 2010 12:46PM

So he's in business to sell us cards for whatever we think he should sell them for? Nobody makes anybody buy anything from him yet he's been in business a long time and has survived when many haven't, hmmmm? If you don't like it but somewhere else.

bking · March 17, 2010 12:52PM

<< So he's in business to sell us cards for whatever we think he should sell them for? Nobody makes anybody buy anything from him yet he's been in business a long time and has survived when many haven't, hmmmm? If you don't like it but somewhere else. >>

I think we've all been clear that that is what we do - buy elsewhere.

mlbfan2 · March 17, 2010 1:02PM

<< My first and only interaction with him was negative. For the most part, there are cheaper alternatives than 707. I would never give him a dime. >>

He doesn't have anything priced at a dime anyway.

Blacklabelsociety · March 17, 2010 1:17PM

<< 

<< My first and only interaction with him was negative. For the most part, there are cheaper alternatives than 707. I would never give him a dime. >>

>>

Same here. His cards are ridiculously overpriced.

akuracy503 · March 17, 2010 1:19PM

You guys obviously misunderstand Levi here...all his cards are priced for the future, his stuff is just that good.

Jawa2600 · March 17, 2010 3:33PM

I was wondering if anyone here has ever sold a card outright to him? I don't mean an ebay purchase, but a walk into his store or walk up to his table and sell to him?

I was curious if he pays strong or if he beats you down on your price?

I once had a classified ad in SCD and he bought at my asking price. Had a check the next day.

Jason

WinPitcher · March 17, 2010 10:28PM

Levi pays strong. Stronger than most.

Levi does not want to 'give away' his inventory.

Levi has a business model that works for him.

If you look hard enough you can find decently priced items on his site.

I have a few times.

Steve

Smuggo · March 18, 2010 12:47AM

Again, I have never bought a card from him but that is because I know that I can eventually find it somewhere else lower if I exercise patience. That doesn't make his business model flawed or him a bad guy. He decides how to run his business not me. Obviously he has enough customers to sustain him, maintain a regular and large presence at most major shows, in hobby publications and on ebay. He must be selling something. If his prices are too high then you can regard his inventory as one of the nicest cardboard museums out there.

twiley · March 18, 2010 1:07AM

A few years ago I bought a couple of 1971 Topps# 700 Boog Powell PSA 8 SP cards from him. I paid UNDER SMR for all them. I then auctioned them all off on feebay and made a $25 profit on each card. I can't complain at all about Levi he made me some money. I also would like to note he shipped them all Certified mail and insured and the packaging was safe and very secure. I haven't purchased anything from him since because there is nothing I see I can make money on. I keep checking though cause there might be another flip like the one I did.

thunderdan · March 18, 2010 3:10AM

<< Again, I have never bought a card from him but that is because I know that I can eventually find it somewhere else lower if I exercise patience. That doesn't make his business model flawed or him a bad guy. He decides how to run his business not me. Obviously he has enough customers to sustain him, maintain a regular and large presence at most major shows, in hobby publications and on ebay. He must be selling something. If his prices are too high then you can regard his inventory as one of the nicest cardboard museums out there. >>

Exactly. Well said.

'52 Mantles and King of Prussia

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