Scott Norwood TTM

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 9:22AM

My nephew had a UD mastepiece card he bought in a pack and I told him we should send it to Scott to sign. I taught him about MR. Norwoods career and about the missed FG in SB 25. The card did show him about to kick that FG. We hand wrote a nice letter and put the card in a CS1. He got back yesterday a totally different card that was bent and ruined with a smeared signature that was not in a CS1. Why would he send that card back and not return the other one? Isn't that stealing? I feel like sending a letter writen by myself explaining to Scott what bullcrap he pulled and to return his original card.

thenavarro · February 18, 2010 9:32AM

I know you are frustrated but Scott is under no obligation to return your card. You should not have the expectation that you can send something totally unsolicited to him and get it back autographed. No matter how much money players make, they are under no obligation to sign for us TTM. Never take a TTM autograph for granted, sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. I don't know the content of your letter, but my initial reaction is one should not expect to get a favor from someone by sending them a small picture card of one of the low points of their career. I wouldn't have returned it to you either if I was him. Perhaps you should send him a thank you note for giving you an autograph, rather then berating him for not returning the one you sent.

If you must have one, he has done occasional paid signings where he WILL sign "wide right" items. Just wait for one of those.

Mike

theczar · February 18, 2010 9:38AM

rude-yes

theft-doubtful.

any unsolicited mail means the reciever gets to keep whatever is sent to him. if i sent some stranger $1000 in cash that he had no idea was coming and he was not to send me anything in return means i am out a lot of money. if he had advertised "send me some money and i'll autograph your stuff" then that is a totally different story.

i live in st. louis. a guy whose kids goes to the same school as mine used to roommate with some players from the blues. they told him to open any unsolicited mail when they were out of town, especially if it looked like people seeking autographs. he had a stack of cards and a lot of free postage.

i have never sent anyone a request for an autograph, but if you tried to send peyton manning, derek jeter, lebron james or sidney crosby a sase for an autographed card, i would think your hit rate would be less than 1 in a 1000.

thenavarro · February 18, 2010 9:46AM

I just checked his past habits over on SCN and it appears that it's the norm that he doesn't return "wide right" cards. Appears to be a great TTM signer otherwise.

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 9:47AM

The letter was polite and there was no reason for not signing it or at least sending it back. hat's he going to do with it? Steal a 12 yr old's card? I'm sure Scott isn't that depressed about it or can't bare see a picture of the kick, since you say he does have no problem signing items about it...for money. His autograph is worthless anyway. I can't image being able to sell something signed by him and have enough money eat at Subway. The card he sent back is completley ruined and the auto is smeared. If psa were to graded it would wind up being a 1. I understand what you say that any person has no obligation to sign anything, but at least return someone elses property!

Dboneesq · February 18, 2010 9:48AM

I have to agree with Mike. I have sent out over 750 TTMs this past year. One thing you must realize is that you should NEVER send out a card that, if not returned, will upset you like it has.

Did you send money to Mr. Norwood to sign the card? If not, then he has no obligation to sign or return the card to you. You still received back a card with his autograph and it cost you nothing. Remember, your request is not the only one he receives. It is very possible that he just returned the wrong card to the wrong person.

If you did pay him his normal signing fee, then I would say you have a right to be angry. When an athlete charges for his auto, IMO, he/she has an obligation to do all he/she can to make sure the signed card is returned to you safely.

Since I do not collect very much modern stuff, I am not sure if that card was expensive. If it was you may want to write a NICE letter to Mr. Norwood and ask him if he possibly misplaced your card. It's possible that the card is sitting on his desk.

ANYWAY, TTMs are real exciting and fun. I am sure that you will have many more good experiences than bad. Remember, if you will be upset if a card is not returned ... DO NOT SEND IT.

Enjoy the hobby!

TheThrill22 · February 18, 2010 9:52AM

I'm not so sure I follow what Scott did wrong. Your nephew sent a card to him that shows him getting ready to miss the most important kick in his life and expect him to be nice/happy about it? Hmmmm. I have to agree with Scott on this one, I think I would have sent back the same thing.

MeteoriteGuy · February 18, 2010 9:53AM

Just send it wide right. (Yes, that was cheap.)

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 9:56AM

I understand what everyone is saying. Maybe I'm different or was raised different. I myself would never keep someone else's stuff. How ignorant and rude can someone be. The card was probably only worth a quater or something, but money isn't the point. Like mike said, he never sends back "wide right" items. My question is, what does he do with tme?

MeteoriteGuy · February 18, 2010 10:00AM

<< The letter was polite and there was no reason for not signing it or at least sending it back. hat's he going to do with it? Steal a 12 yr old's card? I'm sure Scott isn't that depressed about it or can't bare see a picture of the kick, since you say he does have no problem signing items about it...for money. His autograph is worthless anyway. I can't image being able to sell something signed by him and have enough money eat at Subway. The card he sent back is completley ruined and the auto is smeared. If psa were to graded it would wind up being a 1. I understand what you say that any person has no obligation to sign anything, but at least return someone elses property! >>

I think you are completely over reacting. I sent TTMs when I was in 20s...for like 6-7 years. Sometimes you get your card back signed, sometimes you don't; sometimes you get extra cards; sometimes you don't; Sometimes they sign everything; sometimes just one. Some will get back to you within a week or two, some take years. Sometimes they write you letters, sometimes the secretary writes you back. If you not will to accept any of these things from happening, then only send cards to shows or those that sign for money.

Look at it this way, you sent in a card that was worthless, and got an autograph back. Most would call that a "success."

theczar · February 18, 2010 10:02AM

let me put it another way. we all have had embarrassing moments in our life. no one else really cares.

however some athletes and others in sports get them rubbed in their face for seemingly eternity. norwood, buckner, donnie moore (ultimately he took his life because of it), mitch williams, b.y. kim, umpire don denkinger, earnest byner, chris webber, steve bartman all have had terrible moments in super bowls, championship games or the world series. some get over better than others.

being real cynical he doesn't know if it is really a 12 year old or some loser living in his parents basement looking for a freebie. like others have written, buck up the big money if you really want it. i am sure if you want it bad enough someone out there with a wide right autograph will sell it to you.

MeteoriteGuy · February 18, 2010 10:03AM

<< I understand what everyone is saying. Maybe I'm different or was raised different. I myself would never keep someone else's stuff. How ignorant and rude can someone be. The card was probably only worth a quater or something, but money isn't the point. Like mike said, he never sends back "wide right" items. My question is, what does he do with tme? >>

Ignorant might be appropriate. I don't imagine Norwood thought you would be this upset and make a public posting/bashing on him. Rude, I don't know. How rude is it to expect something for free and publically complain when you did not get exactly what you wanted?

TheThrill22 · February 18, 2010 10:05AM

My guess is that he uses the "wide right" items to light a fire in his fireplace. Also, once something is sent to him it becomes HIS property and isn't stealing. As for the "how ignorant and rude can someone be" query, I think you may need to ask yourself that question for sending a card of the worst moment in his career and expecting him to sign it.

jswieton · February 18, 2010 10:06AM

I have to agree with everyone. A player is not obligated to sign TTM. I can also understand why he didn’t want to sign that card. If I was the athlete I would not want my fans to remember my blunders. Yes, he probably should have returned your card but he is definitely not obligated too. I am still a rookie when it comes to the TTM game. One thing that I have learned is to do my research first(sporscollectors.net, startiger.com), and to find out in advance before sending out my cards what a player is willing to sign TTM. I am not a huge collector of modern cards. If the card is valuable you might want to write him a thank you note for the card that he signed and explain why you would like your other card back with another SASE. I would personally chalk it up as a looser and move on to the next player.

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 10:07AM

It's not a success, trust me. I wish I had a scanner and I'd get the card and post a picture. What he did was rude and ignorant...plain and simple. He is not distraught or he would never sign those items for any amount of money. Nobody has answered: What does he do with all those "wide right" items he gets? There has to be an answer to that.

TheThrill22 · February 18, 2010 10:11AM

You were given an answer to your "What does he do with the 'wide right' items he gets" question.

jswieton · February 18, 2010 10:14AM

Is this post for real?? Does it really matter what he does with it. I hate to say it but maybe TTM is not for you if it is going to bother you this much. I have sent $50 mint cards TTM that haven’t come back or have been severely damaged. It is just part of reality when it comes to sending items TTM. It is a gamble when you send any item TTM unannounced to an athlete. You need to realize that he has no obligation to return your stuff.

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 10:18AM

Well that just shows what a jerkoff he is. Throwing a card a 12 yr old sends him in the fireplace. It was already said that he has no problem signing those items at shows, so you can't say sending him those "wide right" items makes him want to shoot himself. He has no problem signing that stuff Mike said.

Dboneesq · February 18, 2010 10:22AM

<< Well that just shows what a jerkoff he is. Throwing a card a 12 yr old sends him in the fireplace. It was already said that he has no problem signing those items at shows, so you can't say sending him those "wide right" items makes him want to shoot himself. He has no problem signing that stuff Mike said. >>

Cub ... overreacting JUST A BIT???????

bigwilli · February 18, 2010 10:25AM

First off , How does he know that a 12 yr old sent the item ....Cause you said so. Athletes and other personalities know that
there are some people out there that will say anything and do anything to get there items signed . It doesnt sound like he stole
anything . You asked for an autograph and you got one .

Like others have said , If you arent willing to lose what you sent , dont send . For what its worth I have over 2000 TTM requests back
but have probably sent almost 3000 out . If you get this disgruntled over one request , TTM is not for you

Also , I have had a couple dozen players send me different card then what i sent out . Marcus Allen used to do that . He said once that
he has a big stack of signed cards which gets put in an envelope and he keeps the ones you send .

otwcards · February 18, 2010 10:35AM

Let's pause for a second. Despite the OP's letter and their good intentions, please take a look at this from Norwood's point of view. Would you be so gracious as to sign something that is a reminder of one of the worst moments of your life? It is somewhat like the folks that used to ask Joe DiMaggio to sign Marilyn Monroe items or the people that used to try to get Ronald Goldman to sign OJ Simpson cards. While this might seem extreme, keep in mind that Norwood has a history of being a very considerate signer with the lone exception being items the refer to the missed field goal. If you can't understand that or accept that, that's your prerogative. The fact that he would keep the item is probably to deter others from sending similar items as the news gets around through various TTM sites. What he does with them is immaterial.

Stone193 · February 18, 2010 10:35AM

This could almost metaphorically be written into a sitcom.

Charlie from 2 1/2 Men - can't get it up and the girl takes a pic of him in bed.

3 weeks later, she sends him the pic and asks if he'd sign it!

PSASAP · February 18, 2010 11:10AM

The premise of the movie "Buffalo 66" is Norwood's ineptitude in the Super Bowl, and one man's thirst for revenge.

csmtampa · February 18, 2010 11:13AM

Im with Mike and what he said in his first post on this one.

csmtampa · February 18, 2010 11:15AM

<< Well that just shows what a jerkoff he is. Throwing a card a 12 yr old sends him in the fireplace. It was already said that he has no problem signing those items at shows, so you can't say sending him those "wide right" items makes him want to shoot himself. He has no problem signing that stuff Mike said. >>

Just write it off as a negative TTM experience. There will be hundreds more that outweigh the bad.

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 11:40AM

Well, my nephew did write him a nice letter stating this was the only card he had of him and how he liked the ud mastr=erpiece cards and had over ten signed and wanted to keep growing his collection. He also stated that his mother, my sister, worked with Marv Levy's sister for many years and also attended her funeral.
The whole issue is that is fact Scott has no problem signing "wide right" items. Mike confirmed that. He signs them all the time at shows. If he wanted money, do what Bart Starr did. We sent the same thing to him, a ud masterpiece card. Bart SENT the card back unsigned saying he wanted $20 per card. I went and got a money order for him, we mailed it back out and hopefully he'll sign it.

All I'm saying is he is not suicidal evertime he sees something about the missed FG. He signs those reguarly with ease....for money.
Joe Dimaggio had no problem signed Monroe stuff either for the right amount either.

Neither does Bill buckner or the guy who threw Bobby thompson's HR. They all have no problem signing that stuff, that's all I'm trying to say.

MeteoriteGuy · February 18, 2010 11:46AM

<< Well, my nephew did write him a nice letter stating this was the only card he had of him and how he liked the ud mastr=erpiece cards and had over ten signed and wanted to keep growing his collection. He also stated that his mother, my sister, worked with Marv Levy's sister for many years and also attended her funeral.
The whole issue is that is fact Scott has no problem signing "wide right" items. Mike confirmed that. He signs them all the time at shows. If he wanted money, do what Bart Starr did. We sent the same thing to him, a ud masterpiece card. Bart SENT the card back unsigned saying he wanted $20 per card. I went and got a money order for him, we mailed it back out and hopefully he'll sign it.

All I'm saying is he is not suicidal evertime he sees something about the missed FG. He signs those reguarly with ease....for money.
Joe Dimaggio had no problem signed Monroe stuff either for the right amount either.

Neither does Bill buckner or the guy who threw Bobby thompson's HR. They all have no problem signing that stuff, that's all I'm trying to say. >>

The whole issue is you don't seem to get it. Norwood is a great guy for signing TTM for free. What he chooses or chooses not to sign is his business. You on the other hand are acting close to the kid that did not get the red cup.

ripkenintheminors · February 18, 2010 11:48AM

Personally I would prefer him to send the original card back but I don't know all of the circumstances involved.

As far as sending a letter you have to understand the world in which we live. People take advantage of others on a daily basis. Odds are good that Norwood has done several things in good faith only to find out that someone took advantage of him. The innocent and well intentioned generally have to pay for the sins of others.

thenavarro · February 18, 2010 11:50AM

<< Well, my nephew did write him a nice letter stating this was the only card he had of him and how he liked the ud mastr=erpiece cards and had over ten signed and wanted to keep growing his collection. He also stated that his mother, my sister, worked with Marv Levy's sister for many years and also attended her funeral.
The whole issue is that is fact Scott has no problem signing "wide right" items. Mike confirmed that. He signs them all the time at shows. If he wanted money, do what Bart Starr did. We sent the same thing to him, a ud masterpiece card. Bart SENT the card back unsigned saying he wanted $20 per card. I went and got a money order for him, we mailed it back out and hopefully he'll sign it.

All I'm saying is he is not suicidal evertime he sees something about the missed FG. He signs those reguarly with ease....for money.
Joe Dimaggio had no problem signed Monroe stuff either for the right amount either.

Neither does Bill buckner or the guy who threw Bobby thompson's HR. They all have no problem signing that stuff, that's all I'm trying to say. >>

I typed an inaccurate statement when I typed that he occasionally signs wide right items for money. I am man enough to admit I made a mistake and to apologize for it. So, I'm sorry for typing that inaccurate statement. Turns out, it is not "occasionally", it was ONE private signing for a gentleman that put it together and accepted items and funds from the public for this ONE signing. Additional fees applied other then the signing fee. There are a lot of people that have done things ONE time for money (ask many ladies) that will not continue doing that certain act for money in the future.

Mike

thekid8 · February 18, 2010 1:08PM

The tone of your responses is over the top --- no need to flip out the way you have done

I sent him 2 custom items 1 for myself and 1 my brother in law (HUGE Giants fan) asked him to personalize them and add "Keep Kicking" --- they came back great. I knew that he did not sign any card or pic of his missed field goal and did not use that image but for my brother in law to get his sig was golden and has placed it up next to his Giant autos.

csmtampa · February 18, 2010 1:16PM

98% of athletes, whether former or current, do not read the letters they are sent.

Don't take it too personal. He could very well do it to every TTM request who sends that particular card.

grote15 · February 18, 2010 1:25PM

I think Cubfan should skip the TTM part and just go to public signings to get his or his nephew's autos.

elsnorto · February 18, 2010 1:27PM

<< I typed an inaccurate statement when I typed that he occasionally signs wide right items for money. I am man enough to admit I made a mistake and to apologize for it. So, I'm sorry for typing that inaccurate statement. Turns out, it is not "occasionally", it was ONE private signing for a gentleman that put it together and accepted items and funds from the public for this ONE signing. Additional fees applied other then the signing fee. There are a lot of people that have done things ONE time for money (ask many ladies) that will not continue doing that certain act for money in the future.

Mike >>

cubfan89 · February 18, 2010 2:45PM

Ya, he is such a great guy for signing for free since his autograph is probably worth as much as mine. I am going to get the card and try to post it on ebay. I will bet any amount, that card sells for less than 0.99.

MeteoriteGuy · February 18, 2010 2:56PM

<< Ya, he is such a great guy for signing for free since his autograph is probably worth as much as mine. I am going to get the card and try to post it on ebay. I will bet any amount, that card sells for less than 0.99. >>

I have no ideal how you can continue take your stand.

TNP777 · February 18, 2010 3:05PM

Wow, you're pretty dense. Norwood owes you NOTHING. Athletes that sign TTM are gracious enough to deal with neverending requests for their signatures, and you have the stones to act offended when this particular athlete won't sign a card that depicts the most crushing, painful moment of his career. Attitudes like yours absolutely disgust me.

Edited to substitute digust for amaze in the last sentence. It better descrbes the disdain I have for the OP's stand on this issue.

csmtampa · February 18, 2010 3:08PM

<< Ya, he is such a great guy for signing for free since his autograph is probably worth as much as mine. I am going to get the card and try to post it on ebay. I will bet any amount, that card sells for less than 0.99. >>

Be happy you got something back..... I could write a long response to the comment you just made, but I'm going to refrain from doing that.

Enjoy your card, or your future ebay sale.

edited - I forgot the "r" in your.

jswieton · February 18, 2010 4:01PM

This thread is getting more ridiculous every time I read it. Why should any athlete sign their card so you can profit from it on eBay.

MooseDog · February 18, 2010 4:51PM

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone considered that he just sent back the wrong card? Happened to me a few times in my TTM days in the 1970s. Occasionally I'd get back someone else's card or cards in some cases.

csmtampa · February 18, 2010 5:07PM

If I was a famous athlete I wouldn't sign autographs for anyone unless they sent Slim Jims to me.

And after the millions I would have made off of Slim Jim endorsements after that, I would still make it a requirement before I sign my name.

zep33 · February 18, 2010 6:18PM

You sure you're not the 12 year old?

Estil · February 18, 2010 8:39PM

Geez, what's next, sending Bill Buckner that 1985 Fleer card that predicted the blunder he would make the following year?

Ironmanfan · February 18, 2010 10:32PM

It's guys like CubFan that suck all the fun out of the hobby......

Blackborder · February 19, 2010 12:06AM

Wow, you guys we're pretty hard on the OP. Not that you don't have a point about TTM's and the fact that they don't "owe" anyone anything.

I think the main problem the OP had is that Norwood didn't return the original card, not that he wouldn't sign, or that the OP felt he was "owed" something.

If you're an athlete who doesn't want to sign something, then don't sign it and move on. Sending something back that's different, invites this type of frustration. Better to send nothing at all and just keep the card. I doubt the OP would have had a problem with that outcome.

If he does though, please proceed with the lynching.

ripkenintheminors · February 19, 2010 12:08AM

<< Ya, he is such a great guy for signing for free since his autograph is probably worth as much as mine. I am going to get the card and try to post it on ebay. I will bet any amount, that card sells for less than 0.99. >>

Got an offer for you. We'll wager $1K that it sells for $.99 or more. You send me the auction link and I will bid it up over $1.

Listing a card on ebay that you got TTM only justifies what Norwood did.

stown · February 19, 2010 1:55AM

As a former TTMer, it's understood that once a card is mailed out, you shouldn't expect it ever to come back, period.

<< Listing a card on ebay that you got TTM only justifies what Norwood did. >>

Yup.

mlbfan2 · February 19, 2010 2:18AM

cubfan89,

Please send me your address. Because of this thread, you are now semi-famous. I'd like to print out a copy of this thread and have you autograph it for me.

MeteoriteGuy · February 19, 2010 2:32AM

<< Wow, you guys we're pretty hard on the OP. Not that you don't have a point about TTM's and the fact that they don't "owe" anyone anything.

I think the main problem the OP had is that Norwood didn't return the original card, not that he wouldn't sign, or that the OP felt he was "owed" something.

If you're an athlete who doesn't want to sign something, then don't sign it and move on. Sending something back that's different, invites this type of frustration. Better to send nothing at all and just keep the card. I doubt the OP would have had a problem with that outcome.

If he does though, please proceed with the lynching.

>>

I think we have been pretty easy on him. The OP clearly feels he is owed as according to him a theft has happened, which is clearly not that case.

Anyone who has ever done TTMs understand....different people are different. If you expect anything, them to read your letter, return your card, sign where you want them to, et al, you are setting yourself up for failure, and TTMs are not for you. It really is that simple. You may get something back, you might not.

CDsNuts · February 19, 2010 3:10AM

Who cares.

Estil · February 23, 2010 8:55AM

Okay, let me try a more serious response. I'm most definitely sure sending Mr. Norwood a card showing him missing that key FG attempt was probably a big slap in the face. Just like if you had sent Bill Buckner that 1985 Fleer card that "predicted" his big WS blunder the following year, or if I had sent one of the 1992 Kentucky Wildcats a picture of that infamous Christian Latner (sp) basket. Bottom line, in addition to the usual TTM rules (such as never sending something you would not like to lose forever), never send anything that reminds the athlete of their most infamous blunder.

Scott Norwood TTM

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