OMG I am Furious!
jjgoat
Posts: 60
Ok, so I sent in my 2nd batch of cards (56 to be exact) knowing that the first time around I was dead-on with the grades I expected to be returned. This time, OH MAN, not even close!! For example, I sent in several 1959 commons/minor stars that looked like they just came out of a pack. I figured the only thing that would make them 8,9 or 10 was the centering. Otherwise they were pristine, sharp corners, no creases, etc. Well, most came back as 5s!!!! That means 'very evident rounding of corners' which couldn't be further from the truth. Is there anything I can do to dispute these grades or do I have to pay again to have them regraded? I spent alot of money on these cards and now it has been a total waste given the ridiculous grades returned. I mean come on, a 5 on a card which should be 8-10? That is $3 vs anywhere up to $1000, HUGE difference. Any help would be appreciated.
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Comments
T222's PSA 1 or better
Cheers, Steve
Shane
Jeff
I had one in my last sub that just popped that I thought for sure was a 10. Was a 5.
<< <i>If they came back as 5s there is likely a "wrinkle" somewhere on the cards. Take a close look and see if you can find them. Even if the corners are Mint if they have a wrinkle they grade them as a 5. Not much you can do except crack and resub. Let me know if you find some wrinkles on them.
Jeff >>
Here's my problem with that. If you miss a wrinkle and pop a 5, it's damn difficult to see the wrinkle once its slabbed. You almost have to crack it just to see IF there's a wrinkle you missed.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>
<< <i>If they came back as 5s there is likely a "wrinkle" somewhere on the cards. Take a close look and see if you can find them. Even if the corners are Mint if they have a wrinkle they grade them as a 5. Not much you can do except crack and resub. Let me know if you find some wrinkles on them.
Jeff >>
Here's my problem with that. If you miss a wrinkle and pop a 5, it's damn difficult to see the wrinkle once its slabbed. You almost have to crack it just to see IF there's a wrinkle you missed. >>
If it's a common 5 you would probably be better off cracking and selling raw anyways so it's no big deal.
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
even the best cards from this set are a tough sell when graded, and i now have a dozen-piece collector set of PSA 5 beer coasters.
<< <i>gotta be those wavy little surface wrinkles, it must be a rite of passage for all of us.....as an infant submitter, i gathered up some beautiful 1978 Topps Hockey cards, "STRAIGHT OUTTA DA PACK!!" and sent in about 2 dozen or so, half of which came back as 9s and 10s, the rest 5s.
even the best cards from this set are a tough sell when graded, and i now have a dozen-piece collector set of PSA 5 beer coasters.
Trust me - I nice set of PSA5 common beer coasters is quite the conversation-starter at parties.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did PSA use to do this back in the day? (marking slabs with sticky-notes, telling the person what in particular brought the grade down)
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
The grading room is a dark, windowless room with cubicles and halogen desk lamps and computer screens. Thats it- replicate the condition and you'll replicate the grades, most likely.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>get a halogen desk lamp from Ikea, and use that as the only light in the room. You'll see the wrinkles.
The grading room is a dark, windowless room with cubicles and halogen desk lamps and computer screens. Thats it- replicate the condition and you'll replicate the grades, most likely. >>
I've heard differing opinions - do they use magnification all the time, or only if they have a question after a quick spot-grade?
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but did PSA use to do this back in the day? (marking slabs with sticky-notes, telling the person what in particular brought the grade down) >>
I've never had it done for me. I re-sent a small stack of EOT's in a while back, and was told by a cust service rep that if the cards were still deemed EOT, there would be sticky notes applied letting me know what gave the grader the idea that the cards were EOT. This would have obviously been great info for me to have, and I was pretty excited about it. I got the cards back, still EOT, no sticky notes.
<< <i>
<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but did PSA use to do this back in the day? (marking slabs with sticky-notes, telling the person what in particular brought the grade down) >>
I've never had it done for me. I re-sent a small stack of EOT's in a while back, and was told by a cust service rep that if the cards were still deemed EOT, there would be sticky notes applied letting me know what gave the grader the idea that the cards were EOT. This would have obviously been great info for me to have, and I was pretty excited about it. I got the cards back, still EOT, no sticky notes. >>
Yeah, I just finished a long email exchance with Customer Support, asking about an EOT I had that measured dead nuts 2.5x3.5. All I wanted to know was how they could determine trimming if it wasn't even short. Pretty much party-line answers, many of which actually led to more questions.
Suffice it to say, I think they work very hard at keeping us from peeking behind the curtain too much.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>get a halogen desk lamp from Ikea, and use that as the only light in the room. You'll see the wrinkles.
The grading room is a dark, windowless room with cubicles and halogen desk lamps and computer screens. Thats it- replicate the condition and you'll replicate the grades, most likely. >>
what wattage halogen do you use? I'm assuming the brighter the better, right?
I think they are refered to as worms.
Those are the cards that I love buying though.
Nice eye appeal 5's for a raw set.
Steve
The phone operators don't know how to grade cards. A PSA grader looks at the cut of the card, not the size. A card can measure 2.5x3.5 and get EOT because somebody trimmed down a card measuring 2.5x3.6. If the grader sees that the cut edge on a trimmed card is different than what's normally found then it will get EOT regardless of size. A card can be cut short and if it exhibits normal cuts it will grade.
The OP made a comment about centering on his cards. Somebody recently opened a 1965 pack and posted pictures of their pack fresh cards. The centering on those would have caused major drops in grades if submitted for grading. In addition to the pesky PSA 5 wrinkles, it's also possible that centering may be responsible for some of the fives.
<< <i>I have a couple of PSA 5s that have tiny factory bumps that seem to be under surface.
I think they are refered to as worms. >>
Funny you should mention the "worms". I just ripped (4) 1979 Topps racks from the group rip, and several of the cards had some pretty bad bumps in them. It looked like there was something inside the card, because the bump was convex on the front and the back.
I've never really looked for these bumps before, but I've now added this to my pre-grading ritual. I start at l/r & t/b centering, then corners/edges, then surface for scratches, stains and "worms" (tilt it so it reflects the light), then I look at the back for stains and centering. I still do crappy at my pre-grading, but I set lower standards than PSA I think.
<< <i>"Yeah, I just finished a long email exchance with Customer Support, asking about an EOT I had that measured dead nuts 2.5x3.5. All I wanted to know was how they could determine trimming if it wasn't even short. Pretty much party-line answers, many of which actually led to more questions."
The phone operators don't know how to grade cards. A PSA grader looks at the cut of the card, not the size. A card can measure 2.5x3.5 and get EOT because somebody trimmed down a card measuring 2.5x3.6. If the grader sees that the cut edge on a trimmed card is different than what's normally found then it will get EOT regardless of size. A card can be cut short and if it exhibits normal cuts it will grade.
>>
So then, 'splain the MinSize status. If a card can be slightly larger (which would be necessary to be trimmed AND exactly the official size), then a card can also be slightly smaller. That explanation seems, to me at least, to be saying that it normal for a card to be mis-sized sometimes, but we won't grade it if it is. Seems inconsistent to me.
</rant>
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>The size of the card isn't the only way EOT is determined. There could be certain tell-tale signs of edge condition too. >>
I know - got that. But I seem fixated on that fact that I've never noticed a card being larger, hence my issue with a perfect-sized card being "trimmed". If everyone else has seen cards oversized, then it's just me. Wouldn't be the first misplaced obsesssion of mine.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
"You wanna walk me home from school"
And I said, "Yes, I do"
She said, "I don't have to go right home
And I'm the kind that likes to be alone
As long as you would"
I said, "Me, too"
And so we took a stroll
Wound up down by the swimmin' hole
And she said, "Do what you want to do"
I got silly and I found a frog
In the water by a hollow log
And I shook it at her
And I said "This frog's for you"
She said, "I don't like spiders and snakes
And that ain't what it takes to love me
You fool, you fool
I don't like spiders and snakes
And that ain't what it takes to love me
Like I want to be loved by you"
Well, I think of that girl from time to time
I call her up when I got a dime
I say, "Hello, baby"
She says, "Ain't you cool"
I say, "Do you remember when
"And would you like to get together again"
She says, "I'll see you after school"
I was shy and so for a while
Most of my love was touch and smile
Til she said, "Come on over here"
I was nervous as you might guess
Still looking for somethin' to slip down her dress
And she said, "Let's make it perfectly clear"
She said, "I don't like spiders and snakes
And that ain't what it takes to love me
You fool, you fool
I don't like spiders and snakes
And that ain't what it takes to love me
Like I want to be loved by you"
The other question/problem I have is consistency with OC. If a card is an 8OC, grade it as such. But I am finding that the grader seems to make a judgment call as to whether grade a card with an OC or drop the card two grades (8OC vs. a 6). When I get a card back that is an 8OC, I can say hey, its off center, I got it. But when it comes back a 6, I need to guess if they dropped the grade because of centering, or if there is something else I missed.
(First post BTW, although I have been lurking a long time!)
Thanks,
Bob
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What grade then between 5-6 and 8 do you suggest that PSA put on such cards. Are they supposed to put a 7 or 8 on them? If they put a 7 or 8 on nice looking cards with tiny wrinkles how are they supposed to handle real 7 and 8 grade cards that have no wrinkles?
Maybe after the second resub (and $15 per card) they'll get in the holder they deserve.
<< <i>
What grade then between 5-6 and 8 do you suggest that PSA put on such cards. Are they supposed to put a 7 or 8 on them? If they put a 7 or 8 on nice looking cards with tiny wrinkles how are they supposed to handle real 7 and 8 grade cards that have no wrinkles? >>
Why should an almost invisible surface wringle be treated any worse than a worn corner?. I'd rather have 4 sharp corners and a small, almost invisible surface wrinkle than an obvious touched corner. Why wouldn't an otherwise NM-MT card with a tiny wrinkle not be a 'real' 7. A dinged corner seems like more abuse to a card than a minor surface wrinkle (we're talking the ones you have to really look for here).
This is one grading criteria where I think PSA has it wrong. Really wrong.