Poll: Greatest lead-off hitter of all-time?

Derrick · July 16, 2002 10:30AM

In my opinion, Rickey is NOT the greatest lead-off hitter of all-time. Ty Cobb would take that crown.

Belfan · July 16, 2002 10:39AM

Cobb was the greatest hitter of all time, and he hit lead-off. 'nuff said.

Cobb & Ruth had a disagreement about who was the greatest hitter. Ruth said " I hit HRs, I'm the greatest hitter"

Cobb said "I get on base more and score more runs, I'm the greatest hitter"

when they couldn't agree Cobb told him that he could hit HR's if he wanted too. The next day he hit 2 of them.

Just a little story I heard from Ernie Harwell

KOBEcollector · July 16, 2002 10:42AM

Derrick i had a feeling you would have this poll. i have to disagree with you though. rickey was a 1 man wrecking crew.. i couldn't tell you how many times i saw him leadoff an inning and score WITHOUT anyone even getting a HIT..a leadoff walk, then steal 2nd then possibly 3rd and then score on a groundout or flyout.

AiRjOrDaN22 · July 16, 2002 10:46AM

I think Dave Alberola was the best lead off hitter of all-time...check his statz

Derrick · July 16, 2002 10:53AM

<< <i>Derrick i had a feeling you would have this poll. i have to disagree with you though. rickey was a 1 man wrecking crew.. i couldn't tell you how many times i saw him leadoff an inning and score WITHOUT anyone even getting a HIT..a leadoff walk, then steal 2nd then possibly 3rd and then score on a groundout or flyout. >>

To say that Rickey Henderson is the greatest lead-off hitter in baseball history is ludicrous, inaccurate, and illustrates a deep lack of thought (as well as a lack of deep thought)....seriously...lol...

Ty Cobb had a lifetime batting average of .366. Reflect on that. He didn’t have a “career year” in which in hit .366. He had a LIFETIME AVERAGE of .366. That fact has been heard so often that it is taken for granted and seems to lose some of its significance. It is similar to saying that the United States national debt is X trillions of dollars. It is an unreal figure and incomprehensible until one makes an effort to examine its meaning. A lead-off hitter must get on base. That is the basic premise with which all agree, and no leadoff hitter was better in reaching base than Ty Cobb, who reached 5,438 times by means of a hit or a walk. Rickey Henderson has reached base about 5,000 times. Henderson walked more than Cobb, but Cobb had more than one thousand hits than Henderson, and he didn’t just hit singles. Ty Cobb had 724 doubles to Rickey’s 486, and an incredible 295 triples to Rickey’s 62. Cobb was a lead-off hitter who hit more than 200 doubles and more than 200 triples than the man many in the media want to believe is the greatest lead-off hitter of all time. This reference is not to singles -- it is to EXTRA BASE HITS.

Cobb’s on base average was .433 and Rickey’s is .404. That is not as close as it sounds because .029 points is a substantial margin over the course of a career. Rickey out-homered Cobb by a margin of about 285 to 117, and that is a vital statistic, which brings up slugging average.

KOBEcollector · July 16, 2002 10:58AM

rickey is the all-time leader in some major catagories you need your leadoff man to lead. walks, sb's, runs scored and also had 79 leadoff hr's which is important because it puts your team in the lead very quickly

YanksFan · July 16, 2002 11:06AM

Rickey's Stats(As of Mid May, 02):
2,994 Games
3,011 Hits
505 Doubles
65 Triples
291 HR's
1,097 RBI
2,258 Runs(as of mid-may, MLB record, Cobb held it before)
2,149 Walks(MLB record, Ruth held it before)
130 swipes in one season(MLB record)
1,396(MLB record)
80 Leadoff HR's(closest player is B. Anderson with 44)
10 time All Star
90' MVP

Now comparing Cobb and Henderson is ludicrous. They didn't play anything like each other. I will always think of Rickey as the best, as well as most of the people who saw Henderson play in 4 different decades. Cobb is one of the greatest players of all time, he's in my Top 5 of all time position players. But so is Rickey.

playr050 · July 16, 2002 11:12AM

Ty Cobb could literally score runs on his own. Leadoff hit or walk, steal, steal/bunt/grounout, steal. The man stole home 50 times.

Derrick · July 16, 2002 11:15AM

Yup, Ricky is something serious, but definitely not the best lead-off hitter...he's close...but not better than Cobb...You also have to notice that Cobb played in the dead-ball era as well, which is a big difference from this day and age...and even a big difference when Rickey was in his prime.

Cobb's career stats:
Games - 3035
At-bats - 11,434
Runs - 2,246
Hits - 4,189
Doubles - 724
Triples - 295
Homeruns - 117
RBI's - 1,937
Walks - 1,249
Strikeouts - 357 <----That's unbelievable.
Steals - 891

They also didn't play 162 games back then...I think it was only 158 games max. 4 games less, and that also makes a small % of difference.

KOBEcollector · July 16, 2002 11:19AM

another main reason why i pick rickey over cobb is the period of time they played. im sure i'll get some slack over this but i don't feel the level of competion was the same when these guys played. yes you had some greats back then but were the majority of players back in cobb's era on the same level as when rickey was in his prime during the 80's and thru the 90's. i know it's hard comparing guys from different eras but it's something i never overlook

YanksFan · July 16, 2002 11:28AM

Remember, Rickey put up his big numbers in SB and HR's in the 80's, when the ball wasn't juiced.

"They also didn't play 162 games back then...I think it was only 158 games max. 4 games less, and that also makes a small % of difference"

Cobb still played in more games than Rickey.

I would take Rickey over Cobb. I never saw Cobb play, but I saw Rickey play 10+ times live, and there nothing like him. The best first step to second ever.

Derrick · July 16, 2002 11:32AM

Yeah, but he played in more games...but BARELY. After Rickey is done, he'll have played in more games. Cobb was also more consistent it would seem...by him playing in more games.

Another thing to mention...It is probably surprising to many, especially advocates of Henderson being the greatest power lead-off hitter of all time, but Cobb’s slugging average was .512, compared to Henderson’s .423. That is a significant difference that is often ignored. The man who is considered the greatest power lead-off man in baseball history has a slugging average .089 points lower than Ty Cobb. The enormous differential graphically illustrates that slugging is more than hitting home runs. Rickey Henderson has stolen around 1400 or so bases. That negates some of Cobb’s huge edge in extra base hits, but Cobb did steal 892 bases. It is recognized that a stolen base turns a single into a double and a double into a triple, but the primary function of a lead-off batter is to REACH first base. Taking all the above-mentioned factors into account, the only thing Rickey could do better than Cobb was hit home runs.

Cubby · July 16, 2002 12:07PM

I vote for Don Kessinger

Derrick · July 16, 2002 12:19PM

Where did all of my arguing buds go?

playr050 · July 16, 2002 12:24PM

I agreed with ya. SUCKAAAAAA!!!!!!

KOBEcollector · July 16, 2002 12:35PM

ok derrick you asked for it

.. i didn't agree with your last sentence about the only thing rickey did better than cobb was hit homeruns. rickey is the greatest base stealer ever. by the way cheer up my man your braves finally won again

Poll: Greatest lead-off hitter of all-time?

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