eBay frustration
otwcards
Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭
I knew after reading all of these threads, I'd eventually get to add a similar experience.
I recently was reviewing some cards from a buyer selling off his 1948 Leaf Football cards. I've been picking up a few of the PSA 5 high numbers over the past few weeks and have spent several hundred dollars with the seller.
While reviewing a couple of auctions on my BlackBerry, I placed a bid on a card listed as a PSA 5. I won the auction for about the going rate. Once I returned home and was reviewing the auctions, I noticed that the auction title did not match the image (a PSA 1) and contacted the seller. I was scolded for not noticing his addendum stating that the title was wrong (pretty easy to overlook when your scrolling on a BlackBerry -- and the image is too small to see the grade). The seller agreed not to persue payment. Subsequently, I've received numerous requests for payment, although I've advised him of the previous conversation. He keeps asking why I do not intend to honor my "eBay contract."
In addition, he has failed to release from the registry the other cards that I've won and received.
Rather than continue this, I'm tempted to pay for the item, wait for arrival and file a SNAD, return the item and get a refund. I'd rather he just file a mutual agreement to cancel, get his fees back and move past this.
I realize I was in error for not detailing the listing, but having purchased numerous items without issue in the past, it didn't cross my mind. But it seems the seller is convinced I am trying to screw him as he now is insisting that the SMR on a PSA 1 is $40 (actually the SMR price of $40 is for a PSA 5) and that I'm trying to reneg on my "eBay contract."
Am I off base? Should I just overpay and eat it? Should I pay and SNAD. Or perhaps I should just ignore it all together and take the eventual NPB hit (it will be my first in more than 10 years on eBay).
I recently was reviewing some cards from a buyer selling off his 1948 Leaf Football cards. I've been picking up a few of the PSA 5 high numbers over the past few weeks and have spent several hundred dollars with the seller.
While reviewing a couple of auctions on my BlackBerry, I placed a bid on a card listed as a PSA 5. I won the auction for about the going rate. Once I returned home and was reviewing the auctions, I noticed that the auction title did not match the image (a PSA 1) and contacted the seller. I was scolded for not noticing his addendum stating that the title was wrong (pretty easy to overlook when your scrolling on a BlackBerry -- and the image is too small to see the grade). The seller agreed not to persue payment. Subsequently, I've received numerous requests for payment, although I've advised him of the previous conversation. He keeps asking why I do not intend to honor my "eBay contract."
In addition, he has failed to release from the registry the other cards that I've won and received.
Rather than continue this, I'm tempted to pay for the item, wait for arrival and file a SNAD, return the item and get a refund. I'd rather he just file a mutual agreement to cancel, get his fees back and move past this.
I realize I was in error for not detailing the listing, but having purchased numerous items without issue in the past, it didn't cross my mind. But it seems the seller is convinced I am trying to screw him as he now is insisting that the SMR on a PSA 1 is $40 (actually the SMR price of $40 is for a PSA 5) and that I'm trying to reneg on my "eBay contract."
Am I off base? Should I just overpay and eat it? Should I pay and SNAD. Or perhaps I should just ignore it all together and take the eventual NPB hit (it will be my first in more than 10 years on eBay).
0
Comments
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If his title was bogus, there will be no NPB hit.
If he files a NPB, just explain the circumstance
in the console.
His "addendum" don't mean jack, when the title
is carp.
..........
Some of those payment reminders may be coming
from EBAY; not from the seller.
Buyers are being bombarded with "reminders," since
the 7-day NPB window was changed to 4-days.
<< <i>A solid seller would say "no problem--return the item." A wrong title is sloppy and a serious mistake, even if he corrected it later. On the issue of repeated requests for payment, I think this is new eBay feature automatically sent and so this shoudn't be held against them. >>
As per out first email, he agreed not to pursue payment, so I haven't paid for the item. I did pay for the other items I've won and have received several so far. The most recent winnings, from the same lot as the PSA 1, were paid for nearly a week ago and have yet to be shipped as he is waiting on payment for ALL of my "winnings." I contacted him again, and that's when he changed from not pursing payment to insisting I "honor my eBay contract." Just annoyed that he seems to be more concerned with a $55 dollar purchase that we both made errors on than the several hundred I've spent and the additional monies I was going to spend as he sold off more of his set. Looks like he'll be losing a bidder and probably at least 20% of his final prices based on losing either his high or 1st underbidder. Anyway, his loss, my aggrevation.
Steve
Edited: Inarticulate thought-stream
<< <i>The most recent winnings, from the same lot as the PSA 1, were paid for nearly a week ago and have yet to be shipped as he is waiting on payment for ALL of my "winnings." >>
Doesn't sound like he is practicing what he preaches about honoring his side of the eBay contract.
Do they not know they have zero power in an ebay transaction?
If the seller is high volume I would bring up the first agreement he made with you again as a reminder. He may have just forgotten if he has hundreds of transactions to deal with. Or did he already say he is going back on his word?
Why bother with the whole SNAD process?
....it happens
Patrick
Where's the auction?
<< <i>I knew after reading all of these threads, I'd eventually get to add a similar experience. >>
And yet you have failed to provide the auction listing and seller.
Note: To view the full item listing, visit www.ebay.com using a computer before you bid or buy.
Those bids never would have been placed if you viewed the Ebay listing on a normal computer and read the full description and any seller updates. Neither seller above did anything wrong when they sold their item. The buyers bid based on what they saw on their Blackberry and never bothered to view the full listing like Ebay suggested. Most of the time this won't be a problem, but once in a while there will be something in the full listing that will be important to you. If you don't bother to look then it's your fault, not the sellers.
<< <i>I don't understand why somebody would bid via Blackberry and then put all the blame on the seller when they realize they screwed up. For those of you who don't have a Blackberry, here's the message that's clearly displayed on every Ebay item you view on your Blackberry.
Note: To view the full item listing, visit www.ebay.com using a computer before you bid or buy.
Those bids never would have been placed if you viewed the Ebay listing on a normal computer and read the full description and any seller updates. Neither seller above did anything wrong when they sold their item. The buyers bid based on what they saw on their Blackberry and never bothered to view the full listing like Ebay suggested. Most of the time this won't be a problem, but once in a while there will be something in the full listing that will be important to you. If you don't bother to look then it's your fault, not the sellers. >>
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Really? You want to blame a bidder for bidding where an incorrect listing title is identified in the body of the listing? How often have you seen the wrong picture with an auction? I am more inclined to believe the title than the picture, although if/when they do not match I would certainly inquire which is correct. That being said what's to keep the seller from adding an addendum later that the title is wrong after bids have been made and some bidders may not go back and retract? If anything as soon as he realized title and the actual card do not match, if he had any bidders (and could not edit the title anymore) he should have scrapped the listing and eaten the listing fees.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I don't understand why somebody would bid via Blackberry and then put all the blame on the seller when they realize they screwed up. For those of you who don't have a Blackberry, here's the message that's clearly displayed on every Ebay item you view on your Blackberry.
Note: To view the full item listing, visit www.ebay.com using a computer before you bid or buy.
Those bids never would have been placed if you viewed the Ebay listing on a normal computer and read the full description and any seller updates. Neither seller above did anything wrong when they sold their item. The buyers bid based on what they saw on their Blackberry and never bothered to view the full listing like Ebay suggested. Most of the time this won't be a problem, but once in a while there will be something in the full listing that will be important to you. If you don't bother to look then it's your fault, not the sellers. >>
Why would you blame the buyer when the seller had an INCORRECT description on the auction?
<< <i>I don't understand why somebody would bid via Blackberry and then put all the blame on the seller when they realize they screwed up. For those of you who don't have a Blackberry, here's the message that's clearly displayed on every Ebay item you view on your Blackberry.
Note: To view the full item listing, visit www.ebay.com using a computer before you bid or buy.
Those bids never would have been placed if you viewed the Ebay listing on a normal computer and read the full description and any seller updates. Neither seller above did anything wrong when they sold their item. The buyers bid based on what they saw on their Blackberry and never bothered to view the full listing like Ebay suggested. Most of the time this won't be a problem, but once in a while there will be something in the full listing that will be important to you. If you don't bother to look then it's your fault, not the sellers. >>
KbKards:
Please show me where I put "all the blame" on the seller. I have stated that we were both in error and the seller even agreed, but has changed his tune and now wants to get paid.
I do not recommend bidding from a BlackBerry, but at times, it may be the only access that some of us have.
<< <i>Mistakes happen. The seller corrected the error, and it never would have been an issue if the buyer viewed the full description. The whole thing was a freak occurrence requiring a rare listing error & correction and the buyer bidding on a Blackberry unable to see the error & correction. The only frustration is two adults not understanding what occurred and agreeing to make things right. >>
And what would you do to make things right as either the buyer or the seller?
<< <i>Mistakes happen. The seller corrected the error, and it never would have been an issue if the buyer viewed the full description. The whole thing was a freak occurrence requiring a rare listing error & correction and the buyer bidding on a Blackberry unable to see the error & correction. The only frustration is two adults not understanding what occurred and agreeing to make things right. >>
I still don't see why you feel an addendum to the auction description and not the subject line is considered "correcting the error". Why not simply update the title (which, you know, drives how people look for items)? Again if bids had already been placed by folks assuming it was a PSA 5, how is it fair to those folks that the item details changed?
OTW - I wouldn't mind seeing the auction ID or seller ID to avoid dealing with this seller in the future - if you don't mind sharing.
<< <i>OTW - I wouldn't mind seeing the auction ID or seller ID to avoid dealing with this seller in the future - if you don't mind sharing. >>
I prefer not to out the seller, yet. Perhaps if this goes completely sour, then I'll post it, but there's no reason to tarnish his reputation over a mutual misunderstanding.
<< <i>
<< <i>Mistakes happen. The seller corrected the error, and it never would have been an issue if the buyer viewed the full description. The whole thing was a freak occurrence requiring a rare listing error & correction and the buyer bidding on a Blackberry unable to see the error & correction. The only frustration is two adults not understanding what occurred and agreeing to make things right. >>
I still don't see why you feel an addendum to the auction description and not the subject line is considered "correcting the error". Why not simply update the title (which, you know, drives how people look for items)? Again if bids had already been placed by folks assuming it was a PSA 5, how is it fair to those folks that the item details changed?
OTW - I wouldn't mind seeing the auction ID or seller ID to avoid dealing with this seller in the future - if you don't mind sharing. >>
If a bid has been placed; or you are within 12 hours of the auction closing- eBay won't allow a change to the title or description. Once the seller realized he made a listing error in the title that was no longer editable... then the responsible thing to have done would have been use the contact buyer option and let the bidder know of the correction. Of course if the bid was placed shortly before the auction ended then seller may not have been aware of the bid.
If it was my auction I'd cancel the transaction if the buyer so requested (especially if it's a repeat buyer); or I'd ask the buyer if there was a price he'd be willing to pay for the card? If it was acceptable to me I'd accept that (in effect a Best Offer scenario) and thank him for working things out. If it wasn't acceptable I'd just cancel and relist the item correctly...
LeagueLeader; IJustLoveCards; Recbball; msassin; leathtech; lsutigers1973; Bosox1976; Dboneesq; Aric; Bkritz
<< <i>Mistakes happen. The seller corrected the error, and it never would have been an issue if the buyer viewed the full description. The whole thing was a freak occurrence requiring a rare listing error & correction and the buyer bidding on a Blackberry unable to see the error & correction. The only frustration is two adults not understanding what occurred and agreeing to make things right. >>
Mistakes do happen, and the bidder has already admitted making one. The seller however has clearly made a mistake also, which created the proble,. and adding a little line at the bottom is hardly a correction. I am almost certain eBay will/would, if it comes to that, side with the buyer.
Outside of the issue, if I was the seller, and if a bidder/previous customer wanted to back out of a transaction, for something within reason, I would let him and thank him for his interest. I am not sure what else one could really do and my time/energy is worth something.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
There is also a third party to blame (Ebay). Ebay makes it very difficult for (computer dumb sellers/buyers) to cancel a bid or an auction and they make it impossible to change the title after a bid has been made, even if you (the seller) cancel all bids on your auction and then try to change the title ebay will not allow it , so then you have to go searching on how to cancel the auction providing it's not in the last 12 hours of the auction. This is frustrating to buyers and sellers, ebay has made it a little easier in the last 12 months or so, but still confusing .
It is a shame the seller in this particular situation, can't see he will be losing multiple sales and losing a customer and possibly more future customers, by just not canceling the 1 auction that was screwed up.
otwcards don't lose any sleep over this, there are always more sellers, also don't bid with blackberry it could have been a PSA 5 MC/OC/MK that the seller only listed in the description or the picture. Hopefully the seller and you can come to a happy agreement.
Remember it is the holidays and there are alot more important things in life (like a PSA 7).
EBAY buyers are the worst criminals and idiots
on the entire planet.
......................
In this instance, the ENTIRE problem was born of the
seller's mistake in writing the title.
If the title is wrong/misleading, ALL bets are off and the
seller cannot prevail in an EBAY-determined dispute/claim.
...................
EBAY Policy/TOS
Keep listing titles and subtitles clear and 100% accurate....Remember that inaccurate or misleading titles aren't allowed on eBay.
Not allowed
Confusing or unclear titles or subtitles
Incorrect or inconsistent information, for example:
Saying "quantity 5" in the title, but saying 1 item is for sale in the listing description
Selling a book about yoga and dieting, but using the title "I lost 30 pounds in 3 months"
Misrepresenting an item in the title or subtitle
...............................................
..................................................
If the instant seller had intended to sell a PSA 10, but titled
the listing as a PSA 1, would the seller be prepared to sell
the 10 at the price the 1 would have garnered in the auction?
Hardly.
......................................
Titles are the most important element of an EBAY listing.
In most search schemes, titles are the sole initiator of
the initial contact between the buyer/seller.
If a seller makes a mistake in the title and cannot change
it due to bids having been placed, he should simply cancel
the defective listing and relist the item.
Trying to "repair" a listing with an "addendum" to the
description is ineffective nonsense. Such an addendum
constitutes defective notice. Defective notice is equal to
NO notice at all.
..................
EBAY's ridiculous warning that, in effect, "PDA bids may
result in a buyer bidding on an item that is SNAD relative
to the title," renders the use of PDAs totally contrary to
the TOS of and customary-practices on the venue.
To contemplate that a PDA user has assumed the risk of
buying something entirely different than he thought he was
soliciting is typical EBAY-nonsense.
.......
for a card that was in reality a 7. The picture and the description both showed a 7. The buyer ( a guy who was building the set and had bought from me a little)
won the card, paid for the card and was shipped the card.
A week later I get a nasty email accusing me of a bait and switch. I was like huh?? So I looked up the auction and only then did I realize my mistake.
I wrote him back and explained the situation and issued an immediate refund. He sent me back the card and later that week won a bunch more.
He paid, I shipped his latest winnings AND the card he had just sent back. ( I was giving it to him) He of course thought I made another mistake and
I told him, nah I want you to have it I see you need it still for your registry set. Long story short about 10-15% of my retired set is now in his set.
I could always count on him for some bids and some wins during each week I listed. Sellers that act like Scott's lose in the long run.
I may quit the hobby over this.
Steve
<< <i>In addition, he has failed to release from the registry the other cards that I've won and received. >>
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Hi Scott,
PSA's answer on how to release your cards from his registry if he won't:
"In the event that you receive a message that your inventory item has not been added because it is residing in another member’s set, you will be provided the option to send an automatic email to that member requesting that the card be removed. If, after 3 business days, the inventory item has not been removed, please submit a scan of the front and back of the card to setregistry@collectors.com and the item will be removed for you."
PoppaJ
I tried to work with him, but to no avail.
Since I'll no longer deal with him and he's refused to look at this rationally, the seller's eBay ID is: binzley (Gary Ledebur)
Below is my final reply with regard to his email threatening to escalate to a claim and leaving feedback accordingly:
Gary:
As we have discussed, I bid on this item thinking it was a PSA 5 as per the title. We were both in error and I thought, after your first email stating that you "would not pursue payment," that we could reach a reasonable ending. Since, you've taken the stance that you expect and demand that I pay. I could pay then file an "Item Not as Described" claim, which I would win and I would have to send the card back for a refund. I don't think either of us want that hassle. I suggested we file a mutual agreement to cancel and you get your fees refunded and you can relist with the correct title. I cannot justify paying a PSA 5 price for a PSA 1 card as I would not have bid had I noticed the error. I apologize for my oversight when I bid, but there is a much easier solution. I would think you would've preferred to work with me and keep me as a customer as I've spent several hundred dollars in the past few weeks. I guess not. Go ahead and continue with the claim. Regards, Scott.