Vintage Cards question .... thoughts please!

PoppaJ · December 21, 2009 12:25PM

Back in July of this year, a dear old friend of mine, Dom, passed away. His lovely wife, Patty, dropped off a few signed jerseys to me that she said Dom wanted me to have.

This afternoon, Patty called me and said that she found a box of cards in the basement, and asked if I'd check them out for her. She said that if they were worth anything of great value, she was going to give them to her son for Christmas. Of course, I said I was happy to oblige.

Well, the box, which I was expecting to be the size of a shoe box, turned out to be a 4' x 6' wooden chest. It was literally filled with albums and smaller boxes of nothing but vintage baseball cards. From what I could see, there was everything from T-206s to '33 Goudeys to '52 Topps (no Mantles ... but I knew that going in, because I traded for his only one a few years back).

I was in awe, and thought to myself ... I wonder how much ungraded vintage is still out there? This is only one guy, and there must be a couple of thousand cards at least in those binders/boxes. What really set me back, was the fact that he always said he had a few cards in the basement, but never gave me the impression that a few meant a "hoard".

Makes me wonder just how much raw vintage gets graded every year? .... and will the supply ever run out? Probably too tough to answer, but your thoughts are welcome!

PoppaJ

otwcards · December 21, 2009 12:48PM

Since Poppa reposted, I'll do the same...

There's plenty of it out there. More than most will accept.

Many vintage collectors have never even heard of third party grading and another large group would never entomb their collection in such silly coffins.

I know of at least 3 local old-time collectors that own complete sets in top condition and nothing they own is after 1960... One of them, in his mid-70s doesn't even have a penny sleeve or 9-pocket page. He keeps all of his cards in old stamp sleeves and stores them in cigar boxes. His collection is only baseball and runs for Mayo to late 1950's Topps. He never collected Bowman or Leaf. He also has unopened boxes from most of the Topps issues, including 1952-1957 in each series.

I'm sure there are more of these kinds of collectors than we really could imagine. Whether their material will ever hit the general hobby is another story.

DrJ · December 21, 2009 12:50PM

The 4' x 6' box of cards in your friend's basement is an unbelieveable find, though I am sorry to hear he passed. On the whole I would say there is still a great amount of vintage ungraded. If I had to put numbers on it, I would say 25% of the high end has been graded and 5% of the rest. You should help the widow pick the good items to grade and sell.

Good luck!

MeteoriteGuy · December 21, 2009 12:51PM

Okay, I will play.

"Is Walmart selling those Santa Claus sets this year? I wanted to send in one of the signed cards during the next special."

DrJ · December 21, 2009 12:51PM

Hey Poppa J... why the edit.. you were only asking about a find in your deceased friend's basement???

MeteoriteGuy · December 21, 2009 12:54PM

Sorry, thought we were guessing what the edit was. DrJ's advice is as good as his layup. I am sure your friend will appreciate you helping her over a card dealer "helping" her.

WinPitcher · December 21, 2009 12:55PM

MeteoriteGuy · December 21, 2009 12:58PM

Steve's edit was: "Let me know how the Santa comes back....I want to send mine in also.""

PoppaJ · December 21, 2009 1:02PM

<< <i>Hey Poppa J... why the edit.. you were only asking about a find in your deceased friend's basement??? >>

///////////////////////////////

Hi Jason,

I originally posted this same thread on the PSA Registry Forum. Don't even ask why ... it has to do with being old

Anyway, I didn't want to double post. I guess I should have explained this instead of just leaving a blank.

PoppaJ

edit to say .... I reinstated my original post.

otwcards · December 21, 2009 1:16PM

<< <i>Steve's edit was: "Let me know how the Santa comes back....I want to send mine in also."" >>

My Santa came back unsigned. I guess I've been too naughty . . .

Pigs · December 21, 2009 3:06PM

I agree with Scott that many of the older collectors probably don't even bother with grading cards. More than likely they got those cards back in the day when they all were pretty inexpensive and completing a set didn't break the bank. I don't consider myself up there in the collecting world with most of the guys on this board but I purchased mostly vintage '50's, 60's Topps in the late 70's early 80's. I know I got some good cards cheap back then, so maybe they feel the cost of grading is too expensive and not worth the hassle. I do have some of my cards graded but if I had $500 to either grade some of my cards or buy and upgrade my collection, I'd choose buying cards everytime. Maybe that's how the older collectors feel too. JMO. Doug

DrJ · December 21, 2009 8:12PM

<< <i>I agree with Scott that many of the older collectors probably don't even bother with grading cards. More than likely they got those cards back in the day when they all were pretty inexpensive and completing a set didn't break the bank. I don't consider myself up there in the collecting world with most of the guys on this board but I purchased mostly vintage '50's, 60's Topps in the late 70's early 80's. I know I got some good cards cheap back then, so maybe they feel the cost of grading is too expensive and not worth the hassle. I do have some of my cards graded but if I had $500 to either grade some of my cards or buy and upgrade my collection, I'd choose buying cards everytime. Maybe that's how the older collectors feel too. JMO. Doug >>

Good points. I have a stack of cards growing and growing to go out for grading, but right now I would rather spend my money on obtaining new material. Even this last special at $5 a pop required 50 cards, which when you factor in shipping is about a cool $300 minimum. For the same money I could pick up a really nice vintage card or autograph. Coupled with the variability of grades and the lack of value for modern which does not score a 10 and vintage which does not grab a 7 or 8 and you have a losing proposition. I will send some cards in again, but I will be selective with those which have true shots at high grades, and I will not be forced to send in 50 cards to get a special.

I am sure there are old timers with similar thoughts who would rather enjoy their collection raw instead of worrying about a plastic slab and label which at the end of the day does nothing to change the card they were not looking to sell in the first place.

lsutigers1973 · December 21, 2009 11:41PM

<< <i>Many vintage collectors have never even heard of third party grading and another large group would never entomb their collection in such silly coffins. >>

Mike (rexvos) and I set up at our once a year local card show this summer. There was one table other than ours that was even selling graded vintage cards. There were quite a few dealers that only had raw but high grade vintage cards and were still using high Beckett value as an asking price. The ones I talked to either despised TPG's or had no idea they even existed.

That is just one small show in Louisiana. You have to believe that there are thousands of collections similar to these all across the United States that will one day be passed on to relatives or younger collectors that will either dump the collections as they are or do enough research to discover that they need to be graded.

PoppaJ · December 21, 2009 11:52PM

Bill,

You make some good points.

Trust seems to be a huge issue when trying to talk some of my friends/acquaintances into getting their cards graded. Though they DO trust me, they just DON'T trust the TPGs. I get asked the same old questions every time .... ie. "How do you know they won't switch my card for another?".

It will probably take another decade or two before a flush of raw vintage comes out of hiding.

PoppaJ

itzagoner · December 21, 2009 11:57PM

simply put, we represent a teeny fraction of the more active side of the hobby, as is evidenced by what happens here.

there are countless people out there who were once told to "get a life" and prolly did.

mtcards · December 22, 2009 12:27AM

There used to be a guy around here that was in the card business back when it was profitable during the late 80's/early 90's. He opened a cards only store that didnt do to well, mainly because he was wanting a fortune for his cards ( He still has a case of 1989 Donruss he wants $200 for because he doesnt want to lose money on what he paid 20 years ago!!!)

Anyway, after he closed the store, I went over to his house becuase he had some cards I was wanting. He was going to "flea market" a while and see how that turned out. In his basement, he had unopened cases of 87-88 Fleer basketball, sets going back to the 1950's in baseball, tons of pre 1987 football, etc. It wasnt until a couple of months ago that I found out he had sold all his raw vintage to a dealer in Nashville. He sold them all at half book, Beckett I am assuming. He came in and I asked him about it and he had a few football vintage left. He brought in a few and I sent the best 10 off for grading. Most came back 7's and 2 8's, but these were the same condition as his baseball.

If he had known about grading, think of how much more he could have sold his stuff for. Again, this is one guy who had thousands of vintage cards that he sold raw only a few years ago.

Nathaniel1960 · December 22, 2009 12:40AM

I think there is a lot of "undiscovered" vintage out there, but very little high-end condition stuff. For every serious collector who stashed away cards new, there are 100 who destroyed the cards and just happened to keep them in the back of the closet. Mix in factory problems like print lines, snow, o/c, etc., and even the serious collectors probably have less value than you would think.

lsutigers1973 · December 22, 2009 12:48AM

I've mentioned him but before but seems like a good place to mention him again.

The best card shop we have ever had here was owned by a guy that collected since the 60's and his dad had collected prior to that. He had tons of vintage cards in great condition in his store that never sold because he, like everyone else in the late 80's/early 90's, wanted high Beckett price for his cards. He closed without warning his customers in 1992 or 93. He now owns a successful commercial construction company. His office used to be next door to mine. I aksed him about a year ago what he did with his collection. He said he still has everything he had when he closed his shop and was saving it as inheritance for his kids. My impression was that he had no clue about the value of what he owns and never heard of PSA or SGC.

Wish he would just adopt me.

DiamondDave · December 22, 2009 6:42AM

I know 2 guys, both late 50's who have pretty extensive pre WW2 collections, all ungraded.

1 guy was a contributor to Beckett on pricing in the 80's, and is an auctioneer.

They keep pretty mum about their collections, but I do know one of them is a big Cobb collector.

None is graded, they think grading is a waste of money, although one of these guys has said
he will eventually get it graded, as he plans to someday sell it, as none of his children want the
collection.

There stuff is all squirelled away in safe deposit boxes.

akuracy503 · April 23, 2010 6:08AM

Love hearing these stories, keep them coming if you've got one to share.

dzolot · April 23, 2010 8:36AM

Good topic guys (and girls?). I'm 31 years old and the only person my age i know who collects! I do however talk to my friends and other people I meet about cards and often time they take an interest in hearing about my collection, what's going on in the hobby, etc. I bet 80% - 90% of the time, people will say that they have TONS of cards from the 80's at their parents house. "I have 5 griffey Jr. upperdeck RC's. how much are those worth today? Want to buy them from me?" etc. Point being that as flooded as the market already is for 80's, there is SOOOO much more sitting at people "parents" house collecting dust. Occassionally someone has a few cards from the 70's or 60's, but besides that the collections aren't worth much...

Vintage Cards question .... thoughts please!

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