Opinions on a possible CrossOver ... Please!
PoppaJ
Posts: 2,818 ✭
A good buddy of mine won this '59 Bazooka a couple weeks ago. We met for breakfast today and he brought along the card to show me.
He asked me if he should cross it over to PSA. I told him that I had concerns about the two small border areas (top left & bottom right) that were missing the dotted lines.
Then I decided to read the guidelines that PSA graders use to determine if such a card would receive a number grade or just be labeled as authentic.
The following is an excerpt from PSA's grading guidelines of hand-cuts:
"The Grading of Hand Cut Cards
In order for PSA to actually assign a grade to any of the cards that possess visible/defined borders on all four sides, evidence of that border must be present. If the cut exceeds the visible border for the card in question, PSA will encapsulate the card as "Authentic" only. If the card is severely undersized and suffers in overall eye-appeal, the graders may deem the card not suitable for authentication or reject the card as minimum sized altogether.
Keep in mind that, for cards that do not possess visible/defined borders, the cards must still fall within a certain size requirement for that particular issue in order to qualify for an actual grade. In other words, the borders must be virtually full in order for a grade to be rendered.
Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated!
PoppaJ
He asked me if he should cross it over to PSA. I told him that I had concerns about the two small border areas (top left & bottom right) that were missing the dotted lines.
Then I decided to read the guidelines that PSA graders use to determine if such a card would receive a number grade or just be labeled as authentic.
The following is an excerpt from PSA's grading guidelines of hand-cuts:
"The Grading of Hand Cut Cards
In order for PSA to actually assign a grade to any of the cards that possess visible/defined borders on all four sides, evidence of that border must be present. If the cut exceeds the visible border for the card in question, PSA will encapsulate the card as "Authentic" only. If the card is severely undersized and suffers in overall eye-appeal, the graders may deem the card not suitable for authentication or reject the card as minimum sized altogether.
Keep in mind that, for cards that do not possess visible/defined borders, the cards must still fall within a certain size requirement for that particular issue in order to qualify for an actual grade. In other words, the borders must be virtually full in order for a grade to be rendered.
Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated!
PoppaJ
0
Comments
Kirk
<< <i>Very nice card. Have you looked at the borders with a 10x loop to tell if maybe a small portion of the border is visible?
Kirk >>
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Hi Kirk,
Using a 10x, the lines are slightly visible on the 1 inch area's edge at the bottom right.
The top border only shows an inch worth of dotted lines on the very right, the other 2 inches are pretty bare, but straight.
thanks,
PoppaJ
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
ugly looking dashed line has to be there? The same goes for the box bottoms why does the cut line
have to be there? Card looks alot better if its cut inside the line and in no way should it
lower the grade. I would keep it right were it is for the reason it looks alot better without the mylar
sleeve and chances are you are not going to get an even or higher grade from PSA.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>If applying their own principles correctly, PSA would not assigned that Mantle a numeric grade. To be honest, I would be quite surprised if SGC would stand by that grading today and reholder that card with the same grade on its 10-point scale. [I think very high likelihood they would not] >>
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I fear that is all true.
I would likely still submit it to PSA, though.
(Obviously, it should not be craked-out.)
You never know what they will decide, until
you have them hold it in their hand.
In a way, it seems kind of odd that the following examples are classified in the same grading category as the card in question:
With this being the case, the aforementioned card will definitely stay in its current holder.
PoppaJ
"Molon Labe"
Assuming that all of the border is intact, albeit even the slightest hint of the dash in the "bald" areas, I would recommend cracking it and doing a clean up. I've had excellent success cracking Bazooka, Post Cereal and Jell-O cards that were poorly cut but had the borders still visible. Have taken a few from PSA 5 and PSA 6 to PSA 9 and PSA 10... It's all legal and above board.
In any respect, there's no way on God's green Earth that the card will cross to a PSA 7 in its current state. However, given the PD, I still think there's enough material there to get it into a PSA 8 with PSA 10 appearance. Heck, if cut correctly, I could see it in an SGC 92...
<< <i>PoppaJ:
Assuming that all of the border is intact, albeit even the slightest hint of the dash in the "bald" areas, I would recommend cracking it and doing a clean up. I've had excellent success cracking Bazooka, Post Cereal and Jell-O cards that were poorly cut but had the borders still visible. Have taken a few from PSA 5 and PSA 6 to PSA 9 and PSA 10... It's all legal and above board.
In any respect, there's no way on God's green Earth that the card will cross to a PSA 7 in its current state. However, given the PD, I still think there's enough material there to get it into a PSA 8 with PSA 10 appearance. Heck, if cut correctly, I could see it in an SGC 92... >>
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Hi Scott,
I really appreciate and value your suggestions. The only drawback is that the card isn't mine. I doubt that my buddy will, or will I, take a shot at cracking out the card. Lack of experience and paranoia will keep both me and my friend from attempting such a feat, especially with THAT card! LOL!
PoppaJ
It went for nearly $5500 -- far eclipsing anything that's sold recently in NM-MT or less except for this piece of crap with a notch in the lower right INSIDE the border:
And it sold for over $8000!!!
Looking at those two, your buddy did great on his at $1800...
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
<< <i>Unless your friend is doing a PSA registry set, I see no reason to cross over. The Physical card will not change in the new holder and you are only risking going down in grade and losing value on the card. SGC should reholder the card in one of their newer slabs/flips which probably is your best bet if you are looking to capture some extra value. >>
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Hi Justin,
Sounds like a great idea!
What about this?
SGC has the right to reevaluate the card and assign a newly established grade if SGC believes the card was originally misgraded. If the grade change results in a loss of value of the card, SGC will compensate the customer based upon market value as solely determined by SGC.
Would SGC reevaluate the card if just sent in for a new holder?
SGC's website says, "If a holder is chipped, scratched or cracked, it can be resubmitted for placement in a new holder."
Could it still be sent in to be reholdered if nothing is wrong with the holder? Or would a scratch or two have to be made prior to sending it in?
PoppaJ
<< <i>Would SGC reevaluate the card if just sent in for a new holder? >>
Yes. SGC would not reholder that card in an SGC slab without reevaluation. I had a batch of SG cards that were probably overgraded. I was told that they would not reholder them without lowering the grade. I went ahead and did it anyway, since I figured that a correctly graded card in an SGC holder will sell for more than an obviously overgraded card in an SG holder.
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
<< <i>
<< <i>Would SGC reevaluate the card if just sent in for a new holder? >>
Yes. SGC would not reholder that card in an SGC slab without reevaluation. I had a batch of SG cards that were probably overgraded. I was told that they would not reholder them without lowering the grade. I went ahead and did it anyway, since I figured that a correctly graded card in an SGC holder will sell for more than an obviously overgraded card in an SG holder. >>
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Hi Bob,
Your valuable input is greatly appreciated as always.
Through your experience, do you think SGC would actually assign a number grade to the card or just render it as authentic?
If they have the same grading standards concerning 'dotted lines' as PSA, it might just be wise to send it to PSA to get an AU.
PoppaJ
"<< Would SGC reevaluate the card if just sent in for a new holder? >>"
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Yes.
IF the grading standards are different now than they were
when the card was first graded, there is no way the card
will simply be reholdered without being "reevaluated."
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While it is unfortunate that the market-standards have
changed regarding handcut cards, the need for the change
was pretty obvious from the outset.
Absent a minimum border size - now assumed to include
all of the dotted lines - folks could refresh the edges/corners
of the cards forever.
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The SGC Guarantee
SGC Guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. (added by storm888: "As such procedures may be established or modified from time to time.") In the event the owner of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the owner may resubmit the card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade.
If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's discretion, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card, in the form of either cash or grading credit. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein.
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<< <i>The SGC Guarantee
SGC Guarantees that all cards submitted shall be graded by SGC grading experts in accordance with SGC grading procedures. (added by storm888: "As such procedures may be established or modified from time to time.") In the event the owner of an SGC card believes that the card has been overgraded with respect to such procedures, the owner may resubmit the card to SGC for a review of the assigned grade.
If the grade determined under such review is lower than that originally assigned to the card, SGC shall, at SGC's discretion, either replace the card or pay the difference between the current fair market value of the card at the newly established grade and the current fair market value of the grade originally assigned to such card, in the form of either cash or grading credit. Due to the volatile nature of the sportscard market and Internet auctions/sales, the selling prices in these auctions do not necessarily represent the current fair market value of any particular sportscard. SGC will determine the current fair market value of a card which is assigned a lower grade on review, based upon what SGC believes to be reliable current market information. Clerical errors with respect to the description or grade of the card(s) which would be obvious upon inspection shall not be subject to the SGC guarantee stated herein. >>
Ugh, I can't believe I used the word "clerical" when I wrote that... I believe, subsequent to the Grand Slam Tiger Woods, that the Guarantee has been amended somewhere in the process with regard to length of "coverage" and with respect to the original owner/submitter. I'm not certain whether that is still in effect, but I know the addendum was added for a period shortly after the single and multi-year Grand Slams.
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lol
I was going to comment on - question - the weasel-clause, but since it
was not part of the issue, I did not.
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I copied the posted version of the guarantee from the site, today.
<< <i>"...Ugh, I can't believe I used the word "clerical" when I wrote that... "
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lol
I was going to comment on - question - the weasel-clause, but since it
was not part of the issue, I did not.
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I copied the posted version of the guarantee from the site, today. >>
The "clerical" or "weasel clause" was intended for and with regard to mislabels or obvious errors that may not have been caught during proofing after encapsualtion.
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So, if I buy a card that is "obviously" a 6 - but has been mislabeled a 9 - the
guarantee does not apply?