Opinions Needed

bsavage · December 17, 2009 5:23AM

I won this card recently from what appears to be a good seller (4000+ feedback with just a few shipping negs). With card in hand, I see a few things that have made me wonder about it:

- Small crease in upper left corner.
- Small stain of some sort on the back (upper right)
- What appears to be cardboard scraps in the case on back (upper left)
- Front of flip looks like it was running out of ink.

Is this within PSA 6 specks, or cause for concern? Just looking for a little advice. TIA. -Britt

clayshooter22 · December 17, 2009 5:29AM

<< Is this within PSA 6 specks? >>

Not even close..

Nathaniel1960 · December 17, 2009 5:33AM

That's a 4 on a good day in Newport Beach. And the flip looks weird. Maybe my imagination.

bsavage · December 17, 2009 5:35AM

<< That's a 4 on a good day in Newport Beach. And the flip looks weird. Maybe my imagination. >>

Oh, yeah, that was the other thing. The front of the flip looks like the printer was running out of ink. (kinda missed a biggie there

OAKESY25 · December 17, 2009 5:37AM

looks like a psa 2 to me... looks like a couple goobers on the back

fur72 · December 17, 2009 5:39AM

Thats an older cert number, I think cards 1950 and under sometimes get better grades than they deserve. I have 33 Goudy 4's that I have no idea what the grader was thinking. I have a 69 Banks ST that came back a 6. But it didnt have a corner like that. The case looks clean though.

Indy78 · December 17, 2009 5:41AM

The font on the flip doesn't look like any that I remember, so I would have my suspicions as to whether it was real (the flip that is) or not.

I would have expected that card to grade a 4 because of the crease in the upper left corner. I have an 57 Ernie Banks with a similar type crease in a 4 holder. From the scan, the "cardboard scraps" looks like a chunk of the first layer of paper taken out, which if it is, would probably drop it down to a 1 or 1.5.

bsavage · December 17, 2009 5:48AM

<< The font on the flip doesn't look like any that I remember, so I would have my suspicions as to whether it was real (the flip that is) or not.

I would have expected that card to grade a 4 because of the crease in the upper left corner. I have an 57 Ernie Banks with a similar type crease in a 4 holder. From the scan, the "cardboard scraps" looks like a chunk of the first layer of paper taken out, which if it is, would probably drop it down to a 1 or 1.5. >>

Exactly what I was thinking. I can't find anywhere that the goobers might have come from, but it's really odd. I just sent the seller a message to start the return process.... such a beating.

.... Anyone have a legit 5 or 6 they want to sell

storm888 · December 17, 2009 5:51AM

Piece Of Junk.

I would return it.

......................

Might be hard to win a SNAD, though. Depends if the seller fights it.

LJB17 · December 17, 2009 5:55AM

<< Thats an older cert number, I think cards 1950 and under sometimes get better grades than they deserve. I have 33 Goudy 4's that I have no idea what the grader was thinking. I have a 69 Banks ST that came back a 6. But it didnt have a corner like that. The case looks clean though. >>

Many people, including myself often avoid the cards with certs that start with a 0 for just the reason you state.

onebamafan · December 17, 2009 5:58AM

Ask for Bolony bubble gum.........................ewwww sounds disgusting!

Indy78 · December 17, 2009 6:01AM

Thats an older cert number

Ah, that would explain why I don't recognize the flip font. It's probably legit then. In that case, the grading standards don't look like they were as high back then as they are now.

Dboneesq · December 17, 2009 6:07AM

The back of this card is very clean. It came back a "5" from PSA. THAT should answer your question.

SDSportsFan · December 17, 2009 7:38AM

One more thing...

Where's the "PSA" in the lower right corner on the front of the slab?

In my opinion, this is a fake, and it should be returned.

Steve

dizzle · December 17, 2009 8:28AM

<< One more thing...

Where's the "PSA" in the lower right corner on the front of the slab?

In my opinion, this is a fake, and it should be returned.

Steve >>

It's in the lower right corner of the slab. It's not a fake just poorly graded IMO

lawnmowerman · December 17, 2009 8:30AM

<< 

<< One more thing...

Where's the "PSA" in the lower right corner on the front of the slab?

In my opinion, this is a fake, and it should be returned.

Steve >>

It's in the lower right corner of the slab >>

I see it as well.

WinPitcher · December 17, 2009 8:32AM

<<<<<<Many people, including myself often avoid the cards with certs that start with a 0 for just the reason you state. >>>>>>>

They used 0 last year too. Some of my nicest cards start with the 0 cert and have the hologram.

Early Bowmans get a pass regarding the stain. Many were sold 1 to a pack.

As for this specific card it does not appear to me to be a 6

Looks more like a VG/EX card.

Good eye regarding the missing psa symbol that is missing.

I'd look to see if my early slabs have it but I'm too lazy right now.

Steve

Edited to add: <<<<<...............>>>>>

vladguerrero · December 17, 2009 8:40AM

just a blind grader imo...

lawnmowerman · December 17, 2009 8:41AM

<< One more thing...

Where's the "PSA" in the lower right corner on the front of the slab?

In my opinion, this is a fake, and it should be returned.

Steve >>

It's right here Steve

WinPitcher · December 17, 2009 8:46AM

Why do we even bother buying and sending cards to be graded if we all think we grade better then those at PSA?

I wonder how many cards the person that graded that card graded that day?

I think we all should sit down for 8 hours one day and grade baseball cards of various issues and then maybe we

would appreciate what they go through. If a card is mis graded, don't buy it, or return it if it is not up to your standards.

That is all we can do.

My comment above is an in general one and not directed at any one individual even though you know who you are.

Steve

WinPitcher · December 17, 2009 8:48AM

One other point. I'd only return it if I paid 5 or better money for it. If I paid 3 or 4 money for it I'd keep it.

Steve

SDSportsFan · December 17, 2009 10:40AM

Thanks LMM, I see it now.

However, I strongly believe the Schoendienst card is in a fake slab.

First off, the PSA logo should also appear in the same spot on the back of the flip. I've enlarged both sides of the Schoendienst card and compared them to enlarged scans of a PSA graded T206 card of mine. The logo does not appear on the back of the Schoendienst. Also, the logo on the front, while it is there, is significantly blurrier or fuzzier than on mine.

This, added to the font on the flip of the Schoendienst, as well as the card itself not being anywhere near 6 quality, all lead me to believe that it is a fake holder.

Steve

otwcards · December 17, 2009 10:54AM

Wow!

I can't tell what some people "know" versus what some people "think."

The card is ugly for a PSA 6. It's also an old flip/slab. Without going through a bunch of old slabs, I'm having a tough time pinpointing the era of the font.

I think I should start a thread that shows 500 images of cards graded correctly and I'd even make sure that they have cert #'s starting with "0." Maybe even post samples of every flip and font used over the past 15 years... Yeah, that would be a hoot. So much to complain about . . . too little time.

NickM · December 17, 2009 11:16AM

Ignore the cert number. They're not sequential. That is an old flip - I'd guess 2001 or earlier, based on the type of hologram on the back.

I can't speak to tampering, but it's certainly not one of the Craigslist fakes.

Nick

bsavage · December 17, 2009 11:19AM

Thanks for the replies, everyone! The seller has agreed to take the card back. This is actually the first time I have had to return one, so I guess I can't complain too much.

Yes, the PSA does exist on the lower right of the card.

I just have five other card in slabs with the square hologram on the back of the flip, but one thing I noticed is that this one has a slightly bolder font on the front than the others. Also, what does everyone think of the upper and lower right corners of the slabs. I really don't know what to look for in a cracked slab, but these do appear suspicious to me. Check the original scans below also, but here are the best pics I could get of them:

Upper Right:

Lower Right:

WinPitcher · December 17, 2009 12:19PM

I can't tell what some people "know" versus what some people "think."

Scott don't you realize it, we all are experts.

Steve

hammered · December 17, 2009 12:33PM

Here's my vote:

real slab
real flip
tampered holder, popped open on lower right

Opinions Needed

Comments