Ebay question regarding empty envelope on arrival
jacksoncoupage
Posts: 609
Hey experts,
I recently sold a card and sent it in a top loader with delivery confirmation in a bubble mailer.
Today I get a message from the bidder stating that the envelope was empty! In most cases I'd likely have an extra that I could just resend at my expense but this was a rarer variation that sold for $150 that I do not have an extra copy of.
I've never encountered this before and I'm not sure what my options are here.
Anyone with experience with this kind of thing have some helpful advice?
I recently sold a card and sent it in a top loader with delivery confirmation in a bubble mailer.
Today I get a message from the bidder stating that the envelope was empty! In most cases I'd likely have an extra that I could just resend at my expense but this was a rarer variation that sold for $150 that I do not have an extra copy of.
I've never encountered this before and I'm not sure what my options are here.
Anyone with experience with this kind of thing have some helpful advice?
0
Comments
Was the enveloped sealed upon arrival?
or was it slit opened?
Not sure how this will play out. I assume he paid via PP?
If so I bet he will file with them. You may be SOL.
Storm would know how to handle this one.
Good luck.
Steve
Since this card was taped up in a top loader, I'm not sure how it would escape. I've never heard of this happening and I'm hoping there is some way the post office could help (unlikely, I know). I'm going to call him and ask if he can send me a photo or scan of the envelope.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
It's always some BS you know?
Steve
Always remember insurance protects the seller and on any expensive card its well worth the $1-3 added expense. I like to insure any card above $30 in most cases, it just makes things a lot easier. I also started using gum tape on the top and the bottom on my bubble mailers to prevent this exact thing as the same thing happened to me 3 years ago.
What I really can't understand is why a post(wo)man would open an envelope, find a pair of 1990 Pro Set "commons" and keep them?
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
unless it is in a box. I have been told that the bubble mailer is not sufficient protection unless the whole envelope
goes missing, damaged or missing contents you may be SOL.
Steve
I highly doubt a post office employee took them.
I don't know what to think now.
Steve
<< <i>Oh you have dealt with this guy before? hmmm I dunno then.
I highly doubt a post office employee took them.
I don't know what to think now.
Steve >>
I see that my big mistake was not purchasing insurance but until now, I've never had to, I almost always include delivery confirmation when I mail items even though I usually don't state it and nobody ever asks me to add insurance though I obviously would.
Here are some facts:
-He's never bought a high-dollar card from me before.
-He collects/bids on Pro Set stuff.
-He was the high bidder on the same variation that ended 2 days earlier ($188) than my copy ($150).
-He was also the high bidder on the same variation that ended a few hours after he bought mine, this one sold much lower ($51)
I really am trying not to think of the worst, but It just seems unlikely that anyone working at the post office would remove a pair of 1990 Pro Set cards. I've wondered if it is a buyer's remorse thing but again, I just hate to doubt people who've exhibited little reason to in the past.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
-He was also the high bidder on the same variation that ended a few hours after he bought mine, this one sold much lower ($51)
Geez he could have simply asked you if he could return it.
I dunno Jackson, I hope this works out though, 150.00 is nothing to sneeze at.
Steve
The real odds of this being a scam are 50/50.
However, I suspect it is a 100% SCAMarama.
If the guy files a SNAD - the correct filing for an "empty envelope" -
you can legitmately speculate that he is a crook.
If he files an INR, he will lose when you enter the DC#; problem
solved, for the seller.
.............
If this was an off-EBAY sale, PayPal does not issue SNAD decisions.
The buyer would lose.
On EBAY, the seller will generally lose BUT can have the decision
reversed on appeal. (Complex and usually requires filing a complaint
against PP at the San Jose BBB.)
If the "1/2" rip in the envelope" story is in an email, that might
save you with PayPal. (It would almost certainly save you
on appeal.)
PayPal is an enabler of criminal scum on EBAY. Off-EBAY, they are
fine.
........
In the future, all packages worth more than you are "happy" to
lose MUST be insured.
INS is for the benefit of the seller, in a PayPal transaction.
.....................
Look deep into the "buyer's" FB. See if you can find any past
thievery.
is a waste as the PO may claim that it was not packed well enough.
Jackson looks like the guy is SOL not you.
Steve
<< <i>The real odds of this being a scam are 50/50.
However, I suspect it is a 100% SCAMarama.
If the guy files a SNAD - the correct filing for an "empty envelope" -
you can legitmately speculate that he is a crook.
If he files an INR, he will lose when you enter the DC#; problem
solved, for the seller.
.............
If this was an off-EBAY sale, PayPal does not issue SNAD decisions.
The buyer would lose.
On EBAY, the seller will generally lose BUT can have the decision
reversed on appeal. (Complex and usually requires filing a complaint
against PP at the San Jose BBB.)
If the "1/2" rip in the envelope" story is in an email, that might
save you with PayPal. (It would almost certainly save you
on appeal.)
PayPal is an enabler of criminal scum on EBAY. Off-EBAY, they are
fine.
........
In the future, all packages worth more than you are "happy" to
lose MUST be insured.
INS is for the benefit of the seller, in a PayPal transaction.
.....................
Look deep into the "buyer's" FB. See if you can find any past
thievery. >>
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond!
I will be calling him tomorrow, anything special I should ask? I definitely want scans of the envelope. And I do have the message about the 1/2" tear.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>-He was also the high bidder on the same variation that ended a few hours after he bought mine, this one sold much lower ($51)
Geez he could have simply asked you if he could return it.
I dunno Jackson, I hope this works out though, 150.00 is nothing to sneeze at.
Steve >>
I would've accepted a return if he didn't want it. And yeah, $150 right now is just not money I have laying around. This is gearing up to be a rough christmas.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
"...I will be calling him tomorrow, anything special I should ask?..."
//////////////////
Up to you.
Calling crooks is a double-edged sword.
It lets the seller know how strong the scammer is, BUT it can
also let the crook know how weak the seller is.
Best strategy with crooks is to make them act first; thru their
PP complaint.
There is NO WAY to "talk" a determined crook out of filing such
a claim. Trying to do so usually just gives him a headsup about
what your PP defense will be.
.......................
If you must talk to such scum, your only card is the bluff that you
have notified the Postal Inspectors and that they will be by to
take a statement as part of their investigation.
That deters some amateurs, but not most.
....................
If you can stall him for 46-days, he will miss the PP filing deadline.
///////////////////////////////////////////
Regarding packing of bubble envelopes:
Mine are packed right and USPS would NEVER reject my INS claim.
Folks who are not packing them right, can/will lose an INS claim.
Cards - raw or graded - need to be sandwiched between HEAVY
cardboard. The boards should be about 1/2" narrower than the
envelope. (I usually use 2 or 3 layers of board per side.) The
thing is essentially a hard and flat box inside of a bubble mailer.
Opening flap should be taped. Corners and weak edges should
be reinforced with tape.
When packed right, the envelope is almost impossible to bend.
It should be marked "DO NOT BEND," "FIRST CLASS MAIL,"
"FRAGILE," and "DO NOT CRUSH."
............................................
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
If this package was insured, how would the seller go about getting paid from the USPS? The delivery confirmation will show as delivered. Wont the seller need help/proof from the (alleged) scammer to support his claim, or when he tells the USPS that the buyer received an empty package will they begin to look into it themselves?
<< <i>The guy is usually a quick payer, bids on a lot of this stuff specifically and his feedback is perfect. I'm baffled here.
What I really can't understand is why a post(wo)man would open an envelope, find a pair of 1990 Pro Set "commons" and keep them? >>
<<< The guy is usually a quick payer, bids on a lot of this stuff specifically and his feedback is perfect >>>
Doesn't mean he couldn't start scamming now...besides, since an ebay seller can't leave negative feedback anymore for buyers, every buyer looks "perfect" these days. Unfortunately ebay rule changes such as that breed scammers who might not otherwise be tempted to scam.
Best of luck
<< <i>I dont think the OP's package was insured, but my question has to do with if it was insured.
If this package was insured, how would the seller go about getting paid from the USPS? The delivery confirmation will show as delivered. Wont the seller need help/proof from the (alleged) scammer to support his claim, or when he tells the USPS that the buyer received an empty package will they begin to look into it themselves? >>
I actually had this happen on an item I sold several years ago. Back when state quarters were still being speculated as worth more than a quarter, I sold two rolls of the "rare" Delaware quarters. This being the first rolls of money I sold, I sent them in a bubble mailer...big mistake!! By the time they reached their destination, they had apparently either been opened or busted through the bubble mailer. The buyer told me they received an "empty envelope" that had been ripped at the end. I did not use DC, just insured for the sale price of $48 ( Can you believe it $48 for two rolls of circulated quarters?? )
Anyway, I went to the USPS, filed a claim, it was sent to the buyer for their part and then sent in to the insurance claim office. Three months later, I got my insurance check.
Of course they would say that, today that wouldn't happen.
I don't think you have read the entire thread? The buyer bought another the same evening for 1/3
the price. He claims the mailer has a 1/2 inch tear (not big enough IMO for a card to slip out)
I doubt very much this guy is on the up and up.
Then again who knows? But it all points to him being a BS artist IMO.
Steve
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Delivery Confirmation does not preclude the filing
of a USPS INS-claim.
If the claim is "investigated" and found to be legit,
USPS will pay it.
Even Sig-Con does not obviate a USPS INS-claim for
INR or damage.
The inspectors are VERY slick and experienced. They
usually KNOW when folks are telling the truth; if they
feel they cannot prove deception, they will generally
authorize the payment of a claim.
..................................
A caution on "private insurance."
Sellers who claim to use "private insurance" to cover
EBAY purchases, rely solely on DC/SC to "prove" delivery.
They will NOT accept an INR claim, IF the DC/SC says the
item was "delivered."
Such insurance is really NO INSURANCE at all.
The USPS product is FAR superior.
I did read the thread. And I feel sick for the thread starter, I hope he recoups his loss. I was just pointing out that I have had an envelope delivered without a card, and I was not attempting to scam anyone. I'm sure it can happen, and I believe I may have been the seller on a couple of examples when this was used as a ploy to get a refund. My incident was prior to Paypal holding the seller responsible for the buyer receiving the card.